Spacefrisian Posted April 8, 2009 Share Posted April 8, 2009 Had a 1500 Annihalation/ Dawn of war deployment game an hour ago and liked to put it down here for you to read. The Lists: Mine: Hq: Wolflord: -Wolfpelt, frags, mark of the Wulfen, Frostblade, Belt of Russ, Fenrisian wolf Wolfpriest: (with Wulfen for control over them) -Frostblade, frags, Wolfpelt, Boltpistol Elite: Wulfen: 10 (outflanked Troops: Greyslayers: 10 (outflanked) -2x meltagun -Wolfguard, Wolfpelt, powerfist Greyslayers: 10 -2x meltagun -Wolfguard, Wolfpelt, powerfist Greyslayers: 10 -2x Plasmagun -Wolfguard, Wolfpelt, powerfist Heavy: Longfang: 5 -Lascannon, 3x Missilleauncher His: Hq: Pedro Kantor Elite: Vanguard: 10 (with pedro in Crusader) -Sergeant with powerfist Sternguard: -Sergeant with Powerfist, 4x combiplasma, Droppod Troops: Tactical: 10 -Serg with powerfist, missilleauncher, plasmagun Tactical: 10 -Serg with powerfist, missilleauncher, plasmagun Heavy: Landraider Crusader Predator: -heavybolter, autocannon I won the roll but let him go first. he didn't deploy anything while i placed the Longfangs, 2 greyslayer units and Wolflord on the middle line, after i made my scout moves we started the game. CF 1st turn: He moved anything on the board moved his vanguard and Pedro in the Crusader and dropped his Sternguard unit close by my Wolflord and his Greyslayers. His shooting was average at best (due to night fighting his Tacticals made run moves), The Sternguard came close by so no test was necisary. They took down 4 Greyslayers (lucky cover saving from me). 13th co 1st turn: There was only 1 target of concern, the Sternguard (other units weren't close enough) so the Plasma Greyslayers moved up to the otherside of the droppod hoping to get a clear walk to the Sternguard, and my other Greylsayers placed them in possition as well. My Longfangs unloaded on the droppd Rolling a Glancing 6 and a Penetrating 3. And gone was the pod. My Melta greyslayers didn't hit much 1 hit and the Wolflord also missed. 1 Sternguard killed. Then i charged with 2 greyslayer units and the Wolflord. He rolled a 1 for his Mark so 7 attacks wich did kill of 3 Sternguard ,The greyslayers killed of 5 more Sternguard, in return 3 Greyslayers bit the Dust. Powerfist made his Ld test and was left alone. CF 2nd turn: He moved his units closer but with 2 units tied up and the Crusader to far away to shoot at me his only shots came from the predators autocannon targetting the Longfangs.. One Hit one wound and i saved it. The powerfist Sternguard was killed in cc (Mark of Wulfen gave my 3 add attacks) 13th co 2nd Turn: Both my Resrves came and i also threw for both a 6 so i could pick which side they would come on board. the Wulfen moved up to 10" towards the predator and my Greyslayers moved through Terrain and came within 6" of the Landraider (he didn't see that one coming). The Greyslayers moved as 1 big block forward. The Longfangs immobilized the Predator while the Greyslayers took a shot at the Crusader. Wich was annihalated. Again luck wasn't with Pedro today cause in the Explosion 4 Vanguard were killed. The Wulfen wrecked the Predator. CF 3rd turn: He moved his Vanguard in cover. And than moved his tacticals in firing possition for the Wulfen. 2 units at full Strength shooting at them made me sweat a little bit but they pulled through. 1 wound on the Priest and 5 wulfen down, it could have been worser. 13th Co 3rd turn: The Long fangs began moving due to not having any target, The Greyslayers moved as well. And would do some running later on. the Greyslayer unit which had previously destroyed the crusader moved closer to the Vanguard unit. In the Shooting phase they would unload bolter fire and kill of 3 more. Meltaguns were saved due to cover save of the bushes. The Wulfen moved in to take care of a Tactical unit. in the following charge 5 of them were killed. They were inspired by Pedro but only manage to kill 2 (even with the Fist with it) CF 4th turn: Orbital strike time. He aimed for my Greyslayers and got 6 under the Template. However luck left him again and only 3 were killed, the unit wasn't fearless but the test was passed. he moved his fre Tact unit towards a Greyslayer unit and killed of 4 of them. In the combat phase my Wulfen killed of 3 more and in return my wulfen wer killed off. 13th co 4th turn: Greyslayers made some quick moves towards his remaining units 1 tactical and 1 Vanguard bit the dust and both of them wer charged after wards. My Wolflord got again 3 more attacks and killed of 6 more tatcticals. The Greyslayers which were with him killed of the other Tacticals. His power fist attempted to kill my Lord but i managed the Inv save. He was killed of by my powerfist. The other Greyslayers killed Pedro and his remaining vanguard. 3 greyslayers were killed in that combat. the Wolfpriest was killed h by the powerfist (can't be always lucky) CF 5th turn: (final turn) Only 2 powerfists left in his army. He moved his free powerfist towards my Longfangs and came in striking distance "no guts no glory" he Charged but was killed by the Longfangs before he even was able to hit. the Wolflord killed of the last man. And that was the game. End score (we use Victory points) 1500-319+1189 points in favor of me (Masacre) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165497-13th-co-vs-crimson-fists/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 Congrats, a resounding victory for our lost brethren. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165497-13th-co-vs-crimson-fists/#findComment-1949349 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sköll Khan Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 An ale for you brethren, a worthy victory. Just one thing, Wolf to Wolf... You took the MoW on your Lord, thus he's a "Wulfen Lord", "Wulfen" become a "troop" choice and you can't take any "Grey Slayers" ... but what Dorn's boys don't know, doesn't hurt them, hey? The Mighty Skoll Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165497-13th-co-vs-crimson-fists/#findComment-1949387 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimtooth Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 An ale for you brethren, a worthy victory. Just one thing, Wolf to Wolf... You took the MoW on your Lord, thus he's a "Wulfen Lord", "Wulfen" become a "troop" choice and you can't take any "Grey Slayers" ... but what Dorn's boys don't know, doesn't hurt them, hey? The Mighty Skoll Be sure and double check Wulfen Lord entry: If the Wolf Lord bears the Mark of the Wulfen, then Wulfen MAY be taken as Troops instead of Elites. In THIS case, Grey Slayers are not available to the army (as all but the hardiest of brethren have fallen to the curse of the Wulfen) Bold and capitalization my own. It is an option to take them as Troops, not a requirement. When still taken as Elites there is no problem taking Grey Slayers as a Wolf Lord with Mark of the Wulfen. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165497-13th-co-vs-crimson-fists/#findComment-1949443 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sköll Khan Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 Be sure and double check Wulfen Lord entry: If the Wolf Lord bears the Mark of the Wulfen, then Wulfen MAY be taken as Troops instead of Elites. In THIS case, Grey Slayers are not available to the army (as all but the hardiest of brethren have fallen to the curse of the Wulfen) Bold and capitalization my own. It is an option to take them as Troops, not a requirement. When still taken as Elites there is no problem taking Grey Slayers as a Wolf Lord with Mark of the Wulfen. ...depends then on whether consider the, "taking a Wulfen as troops" option or "the taking a mark of the wulfen on your Lord" option, as having the side-effect of Grey Slayers not being available. I read it as the later, as it make fluffical/logical scene: If the Wolf Lord bears the Mark of the Wulfen... all but the hardiest of brethren have fallen to the curse of the Wulfen = if the wolf lords fallen, then so have the majority of his warband. but like a lot of rules, people can read it as they wish, as long as they can convince their opponent to go by that interpretation. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165497-13th-co-vs-crimson-fists/#findComment-1949463 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimtooth Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 First of all, Mark of the Wulfen does not equal Wulfen. Substituting the Wulfen as troops is the condition that disallows taking the regular troop choice of Grey Slayers. That are not disallowing fast attack, heavy, or elite choices. It is a trade-off that you are allowed to choose if you take a Wolf Lord with the Mark of the Wulfen. The choice to choose is in the wording. It doesn't make it a requirement to use Wulfen as troops if your Wolf Lord has the Mark of the Wulfen, it makes it a choice to use Wulfen as troops. It specifically says "you may" not "you must". Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165497-13th-co-vs-crimson-fists/#findComment-1949482 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 I agree that the way it reads means that if the Wulfen are taken as troops then GS may not be chosen... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165497-13th-co-vs-crimson-fists/#findComment-1949484 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimtooth Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 I agree that the way it reads means that if the Wulfen are taken as troops then GS may not be chosen... Exactly. What is being contested is that if a Wolf Lord had the Mark of the Wulfen, you cannot take Grey Slayers at all. If you have a Wolf Lord with the Mark of the Wulfen you can still take Wulfen as Elites and Grey Slayers as troops. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165497-13th-co-vs-crimson-fists/#findComment-1949601 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Durfast Spiritwolf Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 The English grammar is pretty clear here: "In this case" must refer to the statement immediately preceding it, ie taking Wulfen as Troops. If it were to refer to the leading statement and the taking of the Mark of the Wulfen then a different structure would be required. No ambiguity or room for debate in that paragraph at all - which is unusual for GW :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165497-13th-co-vs-crimson-fists/#findComment-1949636 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sköll Khan Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 The English grammar is pretty clear here: "In this case" must refer to the statement immediately preceding it, ie taking Wulfen as Troops. If it were to refer to the leading statement and the taking of the Mark of the Wulfen then a different structure would be required. No ambiguity or room for debate in that paragraph at all - which is unusual for GW :) both statements are in the preceding sentence, and thus can be read both ways, and thus can be ambiguous but I'll concede, that if it is regular practice for GW to differinciate with the terms "may" and "must", then it is an option within an option. It should say: "if the WL takes MoW, then he may take Wulfen as a troop choice, though/but Grey Slayers will become unavaliable" but let us quarrel no more, it is unbecoming for the sons of Russ. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165497-13th-co-vs-crimson-fists/#findComment-1949738 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JEFF4i Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 Grats on the victory Brother! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165497-13th-co-vs-crimson-fists/#findComment-1949880 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Durfast Spiritwolf Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 The English grammar is pretty clear here: "In this case" must refer to the statement immediately preceding it, ie taking Wulfen as Troops. If it were to refer to the leading statement and the taking of the Mark of the Wulfen then a different structure would be required. No ambiguity or room for debate in that paragraph at all - which is unusual for GW ;) both statements are in the preceding sentence, and thus can be read both ways, and thus can be ambiguous but I'll concede, that if it is regular practice for GW to differinciate with the terms "may" and "must", then it is an option within an option. It should say: "if the WL takes MoW, then he may take Wulfen as a troop choice, though/but Grey Slayers will become unavaliable" but let us quarrel no more, it is unbecoming for the sons of Russ. As to your first point - nope, the comma causes a juncture that separates the proceeding sentence into two parts thereby removing all ambiguity. AS to your second - Kiipis ja sköl Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165497-13th-co-vs-crimson-fists/#findComment-1950475 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spacefrisian Posted April 11, 2009 Author Share Posted April 11, 2009 The list was perfectly legal and this has been talked about before. So stop the Wulfen this and that and enjoy youre Ale. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165497-13th-co-vs-crimson-fists/#findComment-1950775 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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