SW codex musings...

[Voracioustigger]

So, I was reading over abomination that is the codex leveling project, and I understand that the SW codex will likely not be as free as before, but I was wondering how people think certain issues will be handled. Specifically, the Wolf priest seems to be a huge problem b/c it is a Chaplain/Apothecary in one.

 

1) Everyone seems to think the Wolf Priests will get a Narthecium to give a squad FNP. But no one seems to take into account that (and correct me if I'm wrong) all 5th edition codexes w/ units that can have FNP have the ability restricted to one unit (meaning that no IC can grant it to a squad). The apothecary only exists in 5 man command squads and the Painboys are only available in Nob Squads. So why do people assume that the Space Wolves will get 15-20 man Strong Blood Claw squads with FNP? That would be absurd and make a Wolf Priest a MUST in every army. As a result, I see only a few possibilities...

A) No Healing Potions

:blink: HUGE cost increase (Maybe 150pt Wolf Priest)

C) Wolf Priests will be restricted to certain squads (Maybe can only lead Wulfen or a Wolf Guard Bodyguard)

 

2) A bit of the same as above... I'm getting the feeling that the SWs won't have a "litanies of hate" ability just because of the power of it combined w/ FNP. Though I could see a substitute maybe being a universal berserk charge ability for Wolf Lords.... nah, that's too wishful. But the idea of a Wolf Priest giving Fearless, Litanies, and FNP to any unit in the army (oh and hey, throw in Stormcaller to give them a 5+ [i bet it gets boosted to 4+] cover save) just seems like too much (especially if he's still allowed to have 4 ablative Wolf wounds).

 

Anyone have any ideas how GW will handle this? I mean, I wouldn't put it past GW to just say... 175pt Wolf Priest w/ all of those abilities, but otherwise, they HAVE to split them up somehow (and I really hope we don't have SW Apothecaries).

 

A few other things like Frost Blades and Runic Charms seem to be problematic as well, but GW could easily just give them relic blades and throw out the charms. The Wolf Priest issue seems like a problem that just can't be avoided.

[clanfield]

the whole point of the wolves haveing a seperate codex is to make them a diferant flavor

 

wolf priest-100pts say healing balms-50 pts say, problem solved(healing balms =fnp)

 

universal beserk -i seem to remember it being said that the wolves of russ were quick to start a fight but once it began they were ice cool not khorne worshipping scumbags

 

relic blade 2 handed wepon +2 to strength-frost blade 1 handed wepon +1 to strength

 

runic charms are a problem ?

 

i realy hope they arnt ultra wolves and retain more than just fluff ,the last few codex's in my opinon have been better than the pamphlets we had in 3rd edition

 

i realy hope all the 13th company guys get there own section/pdf/something the charictor and style of play of the 13th is very diferant to the wolves and many folks seem to get confused with that

[Voracioustigger]

Eh, I suppose they could do FNP like that... but still... in combination with Runic Charms, you have a small arms fire immune Terminator squad. Try taking out Terminators w/ a Re-roll and FNP... those will take a while to kill.

 

On Frost/Relic Blades... It just seems like before they were a boost, and now they're almost a nerf. I think I'll take that +1S over +1A any day. They'll probably just leave them in as is, but that seems like a big perk that the SWs will lose.

 

I'm really worried about the 13th Company too b/c they REALLY don't play anything like normal SWs. I honestly think the codex will have a 0-1 Wulfen choice that can accompany a Wolf Priest (Maybe only Sternhammer/Ulrik the Slayer) and a 0-1 Fenrisian Wolves choice. Maybe they'll allow 1 squad to take MotW. Other than that, I really think the 13th company is headed out.

 

I was thinking about how they might add in a 13th company list into the army, and it would just require an unprecedented deviation from the format of 5th ed. codexes. In 5th ed. they've been trying to streamline everything and I just don't see how they can throw in Grey Slayers/Storm Claws without causing a mess. I'll write the simplest way I can think of to streamline them in...

 

1) 4 Stat lines for Blood Claws/Bikers and Grey Hunters to represent Unit/Wolf Guard/13th Co. Unit/13th Co. Wolf Guard

2) Different upgrades for 13th Co. Wolf Guard (MotW at least)

3) A note that these units use 13th Co. Special Rules

4) A special character/Wolf Lord upgrade (I'd guess MotW) to allow for 13th company rules (would likely require a full page earlier in the book to describe the 13th Co. Rules [and remove restrictions on Wulfen/Wolves)

5) Long Fangs allowed to take special weapons (If we're lucky, they'll just give all Long Fangs access to special weapons, so this won't need a special upgrade)

 

Hmm... Maybe it wouldn't be so tough. 1 page for a Wulfen Lord and 13th Co. info, a note that indicates "13th Co. Rules", and new stat lines for a few units. Maybe it's possible they leave them in!

[Grimtooth]

Eh, I suppose they could do FNP like that... but still... in combination with Runic Charms, you have a small arms fire immune Terminator squad. Try taking out Terminators w/ a Re-roll and FNP... those will take a while to kill.

 

On Frost/Relic Blades... It just seems like before they were a boost, and now they're almost a nerf. I think I'll take that +1S over +1A any day. They'll probably just leave them in as is, but that seems like a big perk that the SWs will lose.

 

I'm really worried about the 13th Company too b/c they REALLY don't play anything like normal SWs. I honestly think the codex will have a 0-1 Wulfen choice that can accompany a Wolf Priest (Maybe only Sternhammer/Ulrik the Slayer) and a 0-1 Fenrisian Wolves choice. Maybe they'll allow 1 squad to take MotW. Other than that, I really think the 13th company is headed out.

 

I was thinking about how they might add in a 13th company list into the army, and it would just require an unprecedented deviation from the format of 5th ed. codexes. In 5th ed. they've been trying to streamline everything and I just don't see how they can throw in Grey Slayers/Storm Claws without causing a mess. I'll write the simplest way I can think of to streamline them in...

 

1) 4 Stat lines for Blood Claws/Bikers and Grey Hunters to represent Unit/Wolf Guard/13th Co. Unit/13th Co. Wolf Guard

2) Different upgrades for 13th Co. Wolf Guard (MotW at least)

3) A note that these units use 13th Co. Special Rules

4) A special character/Wolf Lord upgrade (I'd guess MotW) to allow for 13th company rules (would likely require a full page earlier in the book to describe the 13th Co. Rules [and remove restrictions on Wulfen/Wolves)

5) Long Fangs allowed to take special weapons (If we're lucky, they'll just give all Long Fangs access to special weapons, so this won't need a special upgrade)

 

Hmm... Maybe it wouldn't be so tough. 1 page for a Wulfen Lord and 13th Co. info, a note that indicates "13th Co. Rules", and new stat lines for a few units. Maybe it's possible they leave them in!

 

13th Co took a whole 3 pages to field them in Codex: Eye of Terror. Fitting them into a big 5th edition codex would not be a problem at all.

 

What I don't want to see is what happened to the Deathwing in the new DA codex. Fielding a DW army used to be accepting the challenge of fielding nothing but terminators, dreads, and land raiders. Now we are seeing the crap of "doublewing" and other variations of what are supposed to be "deathwing" armies but are not.

 

"Oh, I have this character so I can have wulfen in my army and now I am 13th Co!!!!"

 

NO NO NO NO NO NO!!!!!!!!!! 13TH DOESN'T GET VEHICLES, DOESN'T GET WALKERS, AND DOESN'T GET TO FIELD THE NUMBERS OF A REGULAR SPACE WOLVES ARMY. YOU ARE NOT 13TH CO!!!!!!

[clanfield]

totaly agree with you on that ramses,

 

iv played my wolves since way back in rt days and iv seen many changes from the first book of the astronomican to todays debarcle of a 3rd eddition codex(talking about how long weve had it now folks chill)and the one constant seems to be what ever isnt popular in one edition seems to come out in the next genraly speaking

 

so i expect the rune priest and iron priest to be more usefull in the new book i reckon they will drop the battle leaders all together

 

well see terminator squads vs how they are now as a body guard i reckon well see the return of sergants as well in the squad not as a attachment

i also reckon well lose access to some of the new toys but well keep the exterminator

 

diferant wolf lords give diferant jazz so ye a 13th company lord dose x and alows x but you must not have y is probly what well see

 

i hope im wrong i want a army list not a one trick pony

[Voracioustigger]

13th Co took a whole 3 pages to field them in Codex: Eye of Terror. Fitting them into a big 5th edition codex would not be a problem at all.

 

What I don't want to see is what happened to the Deathwing in the new DA codex. Fielding a DW army used to be accepting the challenge of fielding nothing but terminators, dreads, and land raiders. Now we are seeing the crap of "doublewing" and other variations of what are supposed to be "deathwing" armies but are not.

 

"Oh, I have this character so I can have wulfen in my army and now I am 13th Co!!!!"

 

NO NO NO NO NO NO!!!!!!!!!! 13TH DOESN'T GET VEHICLES, DOESN'T GET WALKERS, AND DOESN'T GET TO FIELD THE NUMBERS OF A REGULAR SPACE WOLVES ARMY. YOU ARE NOT 13TH CO!!!!!!

 

Well, they only took 3 pages in the EOT Codex largely because it all just said "See SW codex." But with the way GW is streamlining, I doubt they'll throw in 3 pages that have you search around the book for answers.

 

Also, I doubt they'll have any major overlap between the lists. Although if the 13th Co. is included, I really think a 0-1 Wulfen choice is a strong possibility. By the fluff, there are many Space Wolves who have succumbed to the curse who are just roaming the icy wastes of Fenris, so it's not COMPLETELY absurd to say that the loyalists finally decided to round them up and use them as a weapon.

 

Let's just hope the 13th Co. makes it in. I'd rather have a gimped version of them in the codex rather than none at all.

[Grimtooth]

Well I personally would just like the discrepancies between old rules and new rules worked out so their is nothing to question and we are brought up to the standard as it is right now. I am sure in terms of balance we are going to have to give up some minor things, but they might be worth it to be brought up to the current gaming standard.

 

The elimination of 13th would probably destroy me actually. I have a full 13th Co warband right now at 2250pts. My plans are for a full Wulfen/Fenrisian wolves warband next at 2250pts. Dropping them kills all my work done and all my future plans to enjoy this game.

[clanfield]

i understand your pains ,there is a template for the 13th in apocolypse not much consilation i know i had the same thing when the wolves changed out of rt to 2nd they changed the armour and shoulder markings from grey and chapter to shadow blue and company markings it made me sick ,at the time i boxed up the grey boys and was lucky in that there was nice new figures to paint in the new colors

[Grimtooth]

Yea, I went ahead and did all my shoulder pads in Codex Grey then dry brushed it on the power armor for my 13th. There is enough wolfy and chaos bits to show who they are and of course each model is all runed out.

 

I am gonna wait for my Wulfen army anyway. Before I go out and buy multiple boxes of Blood Claws, Khorne Bezerkers, and Chaos Marauder bitz to make my wulfen conversions, I want to see what GW plans on doing.