Lost Companies

[5t3]

Can somebody please explain the concept of a lost company and how it allows people to do space wolves of different colour schemes etc?

 

I couldnt find anything about lost companies in the codex, just that there are 12 great companies and then the 13th company.

 

Cheers

[Dark Bjoern]

The Lost Companies are companies who decided to leaf the Fang or not to return to the Fang. That could have many reasons. For example Jotun Bearclaw´s GC decided to stay in the Eastern Frings to continue their hunt for the Tyranids even that they go the order to return to Fenris. He was the opinion that his mission was still not complete. Those companies are no renegades or traitors. Each Wolf Lord swear an oath to Russ and the Emperor, not to the Great Wolf. Even that the Great Wolf doesn´t have any further control about a Lost Company, a Lost Company can still request support and supplyments from Imperial organisations. Most of such companies dies cause they lack the technology to create new aspirants, other refills their lines with normal humans. All Lost Companies are represented by the empty Runestone.

[Voracioustigger]

The Lost companies also often refer to the 13th Company Space Wolves who followed Chaos into the Eye of Terror (Rumored to have been led in by Leman Russ himself).

 

Basically, they use the old Codex Grey (b/c they are one of the original companies and thus used the original SW colors), but myself and others vary the paint scheme/modeling greatly simply because over 10,000 years, they have had to scavenge and use the armor of fallen Chaos marines to use for themselves, so you really can paint them however you like.

[Ullr Direfang]

and just remember, a wolf lord picks his company colors, as long as there is some grey in there... they are wolves.

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

here is a link that was given to me regarding Lost Companies.

 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.p...showarticle=178

 

enjoy.

 

WLK

[Border Prince]

Dark Bjoern, when you say that a Lost Company can replenish their ranks with normal humans, do you mean that they can start to recuit non-Fenrisians and turn them into Space Wolves?

[Dark Bjoern]

No, they use normal human troops, similar to our bondsmen, amoung their ranks. To create new SM you need very rare technology and knowledge. Even if a Lost Company has a Wolf Priest, they don´t have the technology. Most Lost Companies will vanish cause they lack the manpower to go on. They will make a final last stand and that´s it. Other will return to the Fang when they see their mission accomplished.

 

 

(double post deleted)

[Border Prince]

What abou a Lost Company somehow finding the neccesary technology to make Marines? They might for example come across an abandoned Monastery-Fortress with the technology needed still intact? They already have the necessary Geneseed, and nearby setlements, or in extreme cases the bondsmen, could supply them with neophytes.

[Dark Bjoern]

You will not find such technology outside the Fang. Don´t forget about the uniqueness of our geneseed: the Canis Helix. The equipment of a abadoned Monastery-Fortress (not that such things exists. Many Chapters are fleetbased) it would be of limited usefullness. And you need the Cup of Wulfen. Each new aspirant need to drink from the Cup. And you will need a Wolf Priest. It´s very unlikely that more then one WP will be attached to a GC. And even a mighty hero like a WP isn´t immortal.

Many if and when. It´s a fact that most Lost Companies stop to exist sooner or later if they don´t return to the Fang.

[Grimtooth]

Needing the Cup of the Wulfen? It is only part of the ritual, not a technological necessity of the Space Wolf gene seed. As far as the Canis Helix, it is merely a genetic defect within the geneseed itself that will manifest itself at some point in the Space Wolf Marine's life. There is no special equipment above and beyond normal gene seed implementation to deal with the Canis Helix.

[clanfield]

no the activevation process uses a chemical agent put with in the beer drunk from the cup

 

mores the point the initiate is taken across fenris and must fight to master the beast within on his journey back ,theres also a need to fuel the metabolic changes caused by the canis helix usaly covered by the elk of fenris which would as with the hostile enviroment be absent

 

and even if that was acvoidable the degeneration of technic and enviroment would change the company phsyicly

 

but even if that was avoided what happens when the last of the fenris brothers pass on to the halls of russ the remaining would they have the same comitment

not to mention what would happen if the canis was introduced to a non fenrisian human

 

a lot of negatives im sure the company would wither or return

[Dark Bjoern]

Needing the Cup of the Wulfen? It is only part of the ritual, not a technological necessity of the Space Wolf gene seed. As far as the Canis Helix, it is merely a genetic defect within the geneseed itself that will manifest itself at some point in the Space Wolf Marine's life. There is no special equipment above and beyond normal gene seed implementation to deal with the Canis Helix.

Damn right, the Cup is part of the ritual. Like any other Imperial Organisation, we SW follow our traditions and believes.

 

The Cup of Wulfen is a sacred relic of the Space Wolves. The legend tells how Leman Russ gave the cup to his original followers, the first Space Wolves, telling them to drink from the cup. The first man, Wulfen, who was secretly jealous of Russ, drank, and became the first Wulfen, an angry amalgamation of the wolf spirit and the darkness of the creature. He leapt to attack Russ, who throttled him with one hand. Russ then declared that all those who were unworthy would become a Wulfen. He would allow any of those who had come to turn back, but none did. Those who drank and survived became Space Wolves. All aspirants who have passed through the Gate of Morkai must drink the cup. The emergence of the wolf does not happen immediately. The cup is kept in the Fang on Fenris to this day, in the care of the Wolf Priests.

 

No true SW would disobey the orders from Russ himself. So, yes, he´s needed for the process.

And the Canis Helix is not the Curse itself. The Canis Helix is one the first implanted organs that starts the process to transform a normal human into a SW. After his return to the Fang the aspirant will get the other organs implanted. They´re stabilizing the Canis Helix.

[Grimtooth]

Needing the Cup of the Wulfen? It is only part of the ritual, not a technological necessity of the Space Wolf gene seed. As far as the Canis Helix, it is merely a genetic defect within the geneseed itself that will manifest itself at some point in the Space Wolf Marine's life. There is no special equipment above and beyond normal gene seed implementation to deal with the Canis Helix.

Damn right, the Cup is part of the ritual. Like any other Imperial Organisation, we SW follow our traditions and believes.

 

The Cup of Wulfen is a sacred relic of the Space Wolves. The legend tells how Leman Russ gave the cup to his original followers, the first Space Wolves, telling them to drink from the cup. The first man, Wulfen, who was secretly jealous of Russ, drank, and became the first Wulfen, an angry amalgamation of the wolf spirit and the darkness of the creature. He leapt to attack Russ, who throttled him with one hand. Russ then declared that all those who were unworthy would become a Wulfen. He would allow any of those who had come to turn back, but none did. Those who drank and survived became Space Wolves. All aspirants who have passed through the Gate of Morkai must drink the cup. The emergence of the wolf does not happen immediately. The cup is kept in the Fang on Fenris to this day, in the care of the Wolf Priests.

 

No true SW would disobey the orders from Russ himself. So, yes, he´s needed for the process.

And the Canis Helix is not the Curse itself. The Canis Helix is one the first implanted organs that starts the process to transform a normal human into a SW. After his return to the Fang the aspirant will get the other organs implanted. They´re stabilizing the Canis Helix.

 

Do you even own Codex: Space Wolves? Have you even read how Space Marines are made in the BRB?

[Dark Bjoern]

Needing the Cup of the Wulfen? It is only part of the ritual, not a technological necessity of the Space Wolf gene seed. As far as the Canis Helix, it is merely a genetic defect within the geneseed itself that will manifest itself at some point in the Space Wolf Marine's life. There is no special equipment above and beyond normal gene seed implementation to deal with the Canis Helix.

Damn right, the Cup is part of the ritual. Like any other Imperial Organisation, we SW follow our traditions and believes.

 

The Cup of Wulfen is a sacred relic of the Space Wolves. The legend tells how Leman Russ gave the cup to his original followers, the first Space Wolves, telling them to drink from the cup. The first man, Wulfen, who was secretly jealous of Russ, drank, and became the first Wulfen, an angry amalgamation of the wolf spirit and the darkness of the creature. He leapt to attack Russ, who throttled him with one hand. Russ then declared that all those who were unworthy would become a Wulfen. He would allow any of those who had come to turn back, but none did. Those who drank and survived became Space Wolves. All aspirants who have passed through the Gate of Morkai must drink the cup. The emergence of the wolf does not happen immediately. The cup is kept in the Fang on Fenris to this day, in the care of the Wolf Priests.

 

No true SW would disobey the orders from Russ himself. So, yes, he´s needed for the process.

And the Canis Helix is not the Curse itself. The Canis Helix is one the first implanted organs that starts the process to transform a normal human into a SW. After his return to the Fang the aspirant will get the other organs implanted. They´re stabilizing the Canis Helix.

 

Do you even own Codex: Space Wolves? Have you even read how Space Marines are made in the BRB?

Maybe you can enlight me with exact editions and page numbers you´re refering to?

[stinkenheim]

ok gys, lets not have this thread devolve into a pointless arguement... dark bjoern is right, the cup of the wulfen (according to the books) is more than just a cup... i vaguely remeber a description in one of the ragnar ones about it containing some powerful tech, so its safe to assume that it helps activate the first parts of a space wolves transformation...

dont forget thought that alot of marine chapters have different ways of creating thier own marines, some like the IFs and ultramarines will create them exactly like it says in the old WD article whre as others are going to vary in their methods and traditions...

 

however, there is nothing to stop you writing into the fluff of your company that they have varied the way they create aspirants... lets assume they found somewhere with the tech that allows them to create new marines and recruit from savage worlds near to where ever they are based... there is nothing to stop you decideing that they have changed their traditions slightly, maybe they became so discouraged with the old great wolfs regime that they went back to the most core prinicples of what they believed, or maybe they decided to disassociate themselves completely with the space wolf way (whuilst still remaining loyal to the emperor and russ) and therefore created their own rituals and belief system...

 

lets not forget that this is above all a game, and if you wish to create your own unique company there is nothing stopping you writing whatever you want into their fluff... or you could just start a normal great company that is created after the death of one of the current wolf lords, because the great companies reflect the fighting styles of the lord that leads them rather than any specific srtucture like those in a 'codex' space marine army

[Bran Scalphunter]

Bro. Ramses- Yeah, the BRB and C:SM describe normal Marines, not those that are deviant from the C. So, by your logic, the fact that BA drink from the Red Grail and then spend time entombed inside a coffin in order to transform aren't valid canon because they aren't in the BRB & C:SM? Also, our Codex even mentions the Cup. Read the little story about Haakon, he remembers drinking from it alongside his wolf-brothers when they were becoming Marines.

[clanfield]

or read the first of the ragnar books its all there to matey

[Grimtooth]

Actually drinking from the Cup of the Wulfen or the Red Grail is only the symbolism of introducing the a chapter's geneseed into an aspirants body. Sure there might be technology present in the cup to introduce the geneseed into the aspirants body, but the relevance of the the name of the cup has nothing to do with the actual process of the genetic implantation.

 

The Canis Helix is not an implant. It is the genetic defect within the genetic coding of Russ' DNA that results in the feral appearance of the Space Wolves and the tendency to fall to the Curse of the Wulfen. The Cup of the Wulfen is only the vessel in which the chapter's Canis Helix infected geneseed is introduced into an aspirant. The helix in Canis Helix is a reference to the helical structure of DNA.

 

To say otherwise would be akin to saying that the Red Grail is what causes the Black Rage. No, the death of Sanguinius imprinted on his geneseed is what causes the Black Rage. The Red Grail is just the vessel in which the imprinted geneseed is introduced into an aspirant that leaves them prone to suffering from the Black Rage.

 

Defective geneseed is not a new thing among Space Marines and not the result of a "cup":

 

The Imperial Fists' geneseed has been somewhat corrupted over the millennia, so two traits have emerged. One is the loss of two of the special organs produced by Space Marines: the Betcher's Gland, which allows the Marine to produce poisonous/acidic spittle, and the Sus-an Membrane, which allows a Marine to enter a state of suspended animation.

 

Searching for a solution among the Librarium of the Ravenspire, Corax found the ancient books of genetic research providing the techniques used to create the first enhanced warriors of the Emperor, those techniques Corax duplicated to create Spaces Marines at a frightening rate. Despite the warnings he found amongst the old books, he started rebuilding his Legion. As the Legion started fighting alone, isolated from the other Imperial Forces, nothing is known for sure of the initial results, but an element of response came with the Space Wolves Saga of the Weregeld, which tells of ferocious monsters lead to combat by their Raven Guard Battle Brothers.

 

The degeneration of the Raven Guard gene-seed means several of the unique organs of the Space Marines no longer work properly or no longer grow. Raven Guard do not have the Mucranoid or Betcher's Gland. The Melanchromic Organ has a unique mutation that causes the skin of the Space Marine to grow paler. Eventually each Marine's skin becomes pure white while their hair and eyes darken, becoming black as coal.

 

The Blood Raven geneseed seems to be stable, though the high proportion of psykers in the Blood Ravens ranks has resulted in more regular testing of the purity of their geneseed tithe. Thus far, there has been little evidence of mutation. There is, however, a slight mutation in the Catalepsean Node, which grants Blood Ravens perfect recall, but renders them unable to experience R.E.M. Sleep.

 

So do all these chapters have a special "cup" that makes them have mutations?\

 

To be continued when I get back from a meeting....

[Grimtooth]

So from WD 156:

 

If the aspirant is chosen he is led into a darkened chamber and laid down upon a blood-stained slab. The Wolf Priest re-enters and the operation to implant the geneseed and the extra organs that go to make a Space Marine is begun. When the aspirant wakes he finds himself once more in the Great Hall. He is welcomed with a roar and applause and settled down at the feasting table. He is told that he must eat a whole elk and drink a barrel of ale, as Russ once did. The aspirant is given no choice, and must keep eating and drinking. Plate after plate of steaming meat is brought to him: tankard after tankard of foaming ale is raised to his lips. He must keep eating for his new brothers will give him no respite. Eventually the young candidate will pass out, drunk on strong ale and gorged on venison, his stomach full to the point of being distended. His last memory is usually of being put to sleep in a soft bed. This is truly a warrior's paradise, he thinks.

 

The initial geneseed implantation and implants have begun. Here is the time that the Cup of Wulfen, that contains Russ' geneseed, is more then likely passed from the Wolf Priest to the aspirant

 

When the aspirant awakes he is freezing cold. He lies naked in the snow with a knife of meteoric iron close at hand. He is feverish and distressed. His head throbs and his muscles ache. His gums bleed and his mouth burns. Near him stands the Wolf Priest that selected him, who tells the aspirant that the true test has now begun. To prove himself worthy, he must make his way back to the Fang and gain entrance. He is now at the other side of the continent, a thousand miles away from home. The Wolf Priest disappears and the candidate is truly on his own.

 

At a point right at the story of Haakon. You can surmise that during the time in the darkened chamber, the aspirant drinks from the Cup of the Wulfen for Russ' Canis Helix infected geneseed and other organs are surgically implanted.

 

Although the aspirant did not know it, the feast had a purpose. The geneseed is beginning to work on his body, rushing through it and restructuring it. Muscle mass is being added, bones are beginning to fuse together, and the very structure of his brain is beginning to alter, quickening his reflexes and heightening his perceptions. Vestigial fangs are beginning to emerge. The venison provides the raw protein needed for this, and the sacred ale was laced with the necessary trace chemicals to fuel the change.

 

From this description we can determine the first set of implants of the total 19 that have been implanted in the aspirant; Ossmodula, Biscopea, Secondary Heart, and because it interacts with two of the three, the Haemastamen. Note that he is beginning to grow fangs which are not side effects of any of the implants but instead the Canis Helix of the corrupted geneseed. Also note that he has has been fed mass quantities of protein to fuel the massive muscle and bone growth. Doesn't matter if it is elk, just needs to be a massive protein store for the Ossmodula and Biscopea implants.

 

The aspirant knows none of this. He is wracked with pain as his body stretches and grows. His mind is haunted by visions and sanity fades. He becomes wolf-like, feral, maddened by agony and hunger. Now is the worst time - he is constantly hungry because his changing body needs more and more nourishment if it is to sustain its growth. Failure to provide this will be fatal as his body begins to cannibalise itself.

 

These first few days are the most critical. The aspirant must feed often. He has usually been left near a source of food such as an elk herd. Near mindless, he must hunt them down, eat their raw flesh and drink their blood. Some aspirants, unable to meet the challenge, perish. Some, whether due to some flaw in themselves or the geneseed, never get beyond this stage. They become mindless animals, with an animal's cunning. They continue to grow and hunger for flesh, eventually becoming Wulfen, the most feared monsters on Fenris, creatures that are hunted down by all sane men.

 

The Wulfen of Fenris are not the Wulfen of the 13th Co. The Wulfen of the 13th Co or the Lost Co were former Space Wolf Marines that have finally succumbed to the genetic fault of the Canis Helix in Russ' geneseed. In the case of an aspirant it is either their own weakness or the overwhelming strength of the Canis Helix that drives them to become Wulfen before ever becoming a Space Wolf.

 

If the aspirant survives the first few days then his sanity and intelligence slowly return. He looks on the world anew and finds it changed. His senses are keener. He can see for tens of miles, hear the crack of a twig a league away, smell the musk trails of deer and wolf. He finds he has grown strong beyond the imagining of a mortal man, able to uproot trees and run for days without tiring.

 

He is almost immune to the biting chill. He recalls who he is and how he came to be where he is, which is just as well, for he will need all a man's intelligence as well as the superhuman powers of a Space Marine to cover the distance to the Fang. The land is full of danger from wild beasts, awful weather, and the constant threat of landslide and avalanche.

 

Here we can see evidence of additional organs that must have been implanted prior to the journey back to the fang; Occulobe, Lyman's Ear, Catalepsean Node, and Mucranoid as well as further evidence of the Secondary Heart, Biscopea, and Haemastamen

 

In the mountains the aspirants encounter dragons and blood eagles. Food becomes scarce. Many aspirants die on this pilgrimage. Those that do not will eventually find themselves before one of the Fang's many gates. Here, at the heart of the northern continent, where the mountains meet over the pole, they will see the Fang in all its glory for the first time.

 

With the reference to "Food becomes scarce." in this paragraph, there is a possibility that one last implant the aspirant received may have been the Preomnor to survive the long trek by foraging even the most inedible food.

 

Now at no time is a Canis Helix "organ" referenced to be implanted but characteristics of it are prevalent in the growing of fangs, bestial nature during the first days, and with the possibility of becoming a Wulfen of Fenris. Chemicals added to the ale during the feast are only referenced to fuel the changes already happening due to organ implants, i.e. catalytic properties.

 

The traits manifested by the Canis Helix are a byproduct of the initial corrupted geneseed implantation not by any organ. The Cup of the Wulfen is more then likely a technological surgical tool, wholly embellished with all types of wolfy bitz :rolleyes: that is the mechanism of implanting Russ' geneseed. Just as the Red Grail is an identical technological tool of implanting Sanguinius' geneseed.

 

So if a Wolf Priest were to just find the same geneseed implantation tool by some chance (abandoned fortress/adeptus mechanus forgeworld remains/etc, he would indeed have the ability to create more Space Wolves outside of Fenris and the Fang using Progenoids taken from any Space Wolf of his company. The aspirant could then be dropped on any deathworld and be required to travel across it in the same manner as those on Fenris; living off the land/etc/etc.

[Krave]

Out of curiosity, what would happen if one of the lost companies suddenly returned to the Fang? If the lost Wolf Lord is dead they could just attach the troops to another company, but if he's not, then what? I doubt the SW would be the type to demote the most junior commander, nor do I think that said junior Wolf Lord would be likely to accept such an occurance.

[Grimtooth]

Out of curiosity, what would happen if one of the lost companies suddenly returned to the Fang? If the lost Wolf Lord is dead they could just attach the troops to another company, but if he's not, then what? I doubt the SW would be the type to demote the most junior commander, nor do I think that said junior Wolf Lord would be likely to accept such an occurance.

 

When a company loses a Wolf Lord in battle they are usually replaced with a wolf brother who was obviously the up and coming Wolf Lord via battle prowess/feats of glory/etc. Kind of like the story behind Ulrik being chosen after the battle where his Lord was killed but not accepting.

 

If there was a "newly" promoted Wolf Lord, I am sure he would be accepted by the Fang as the Wolf Lord of that company with future battles to showcase his abilities that had him promoted in the first place.

 

I tend to think of pack mentality of when an alpha male is killed the next strongest male takes lead of the pack. In the case of returning to a larger pack, i.e the Fang, he would still be an alpha male with maybe some holdouts until he could prove his worth in batttle/hunting.

[clanfield]

i always took the term "canis helix"to refure to the russ geneseed persay not a particular organ ,obviously each of the 20 starting pairs of gene seed are diferant

in addition astartes gene seed is altered over time by the recruits and home worlds of said recruits (look to the flesh tearers for example)

 

 

quite an interesting point that perhaps the 13th 's russ seed had changed signifcantly in the 10k years they have been away in the eye (not corupted just changed by enviroment)

 

in any endevour the lost company would require a wolf priest or aspirant wolf priest as well as the facilitys and actual gene seed to perform the transition

the proginoid glads are what the implants are cultured from not the actual implants them selves

 

then there is the question of the new recruits change to futer gene seed development

[Grimtooth]

i always took the term "canis helix"to refure to the russ geneseed persay not a particular organ ,obviously each of the 20 starting pairs of gene seed are diferant

in addition astartes gene seed is altered over time by the recruits and home worlds of said recruits (look to the flesh tearers for example)

 

 

quite an interesting point that perhaps the 13th 's russ seed had changed signifcantly in the 10k years they have been away in the eye (not corupted just changed by enviroment)

 

in any endevour the lost company would require a wolf priest or aspirant wolf priest as well as the facilitys and actual gene seed to perform the transition

the proginoid glads are what the implants are cultured from not the actual implants them selves

 

then there is the question of the new recruits change to futer gene seed development

 

The "helix" of Canis Helix could really only reference the helical structure of DNA and not an entire organ since there is only 19 gene seed implanted in each and every SM; SW, DA, BA, or whoever.

 

Lore points at the cause of the Red Thirst of BA and their successor chapters as being a mutation within the Omophagea that drives them to be blood drinkers and cannibals above and beyond what that implant is used for.

 

I wonder the same about the 13th. On one avenue of thought you could say that since they have not created or recruited any new members for 10,000yrs they would be a very pure gene stock. However on the other side of the arguement, you tend to wonder what 10,000yrs in the warp would do to the gene seed as well. Granted they did pop out of the Eye of Terror still following the orders of Russ/Emperor by attacking the enemies of the Emperor with their hunt for Magnus.

 

Progenoid glands contain the basic "seeds" for all 19 implants needed for the creation of a new Marine. The glands are what allows a chapter to survive as they contain the very genetic coding of their respective primarchs.

 

Now, I would say that the Canis Helix would be present in all 19 organs. Akin to human stem cells in that they contain all the DNA information of the person who they came. However like stem cells, they are the building block for different kinds of organs. The 19 implants are genetically linked directly to Russ and therefore also contain the Canis Helix.

[clanfield]

i understand yes your right, i remember there was a rumor of russ still about the galaxy helping humanity through the melleniua now it may have been the 13th and just some coman mistakes from the local poulation possably maybe theve been "about" if you see what i mean

 

another point i find odd is that the 13th squad names are diferante ,in wolf at the door they were bulvies wolf guard now that implys they changed there squad designations after the hunt began which again dosnet sit well with me as they are still space wolves unlike other lost companys