Smokey Landraiders

[Brother Gothard]

Agreed; because then enemies would get a cover save every time you got one :D

[Top Secret]

I have been wondering this myself and came to the conclusion that you can fire after launching smoke.

[Thantoes]

The next question if you allow it to fire is...Would the target then get a cover save since they are obscured (as you are) from being seen?

 

While I dont agree with the vehicle being able to fire while under smoke (which is a RAI for me since the RAW looks like it allows it) I would say that your target would not get a cover save. Its like an infantry unit firing from cover. They get the cover save but their target does not as long as they are closer than 2 inches from the edge of cover.

[Praeger]

Do we now just sit back and wait for for someone to say "may not fire any" does not equal "may fire zero," and therefore "one more weapon" does not apply?

 

Actually this was exactly what I was saying to begin with.

 

You need permission to do something before you can do one more then allowed.

 

If you dont have permission to do any, then one more then permitted still means zero.

 

Think of it like this:

 

- You may add +1 to any number you pick out of the hat.

 

- you fumble around in the hat and pick out a #2 - you can now make that a 3

 

- next person fumbles around and pulls out a pebble. Sorry but that pebble isnt a number, dosnt look like a number, and has no number written on it.

 

See what I mean?

[Stanley Tweedle]

Praeger, once again. Same rule, another situation. Rulebook says that vehicles moving at cruising speed cannot fire any weapons. Which means zero. The POtMS rule says you can (1 weapon). Where is the difference?

 

I always thought that 0+1=1, which is true anywhere in our universe (except maybe singularity points in the heart of black holes, where space and time cease to exist).

[Praeger]

Im still awaiting a quote that does allow using it after moving at crusing speed.

 

So far iv seen this:

 

However PoTMS (p81 C:SM):

A Land Raider can fire one more weapon than would normally be permitted. In addition, this weapon can be fired at a different target unit to any other weapons, subject to the normal rules for shooting.

 

No where there does it stat it can fire after crusing - so again, as iv already asked, can you please provide the quote that shows this as I am lacky my codex and so can not look for it myself.

 

If you are saying it exists, please provide the quote.

[Thaylen]

Page 81 C:SM

 

Therefore, a Land Raider that has moved combat speed can fire two weapons, and a Land Raider that has moved cruising speed, or has suffered a 'Crew Stunned' or 'Crew Shaken' result may still fire a single weapon.

 

This is right below the paragraph quoted in the previous post.

 

As for the May not fire=Zero weapons part of the arguement I ask you to reference pg 58 of BRB.

 

Quote: Vehicles that moved cruising speed may not fire.

 

And referencing the smoke launchers section again on pg 62 of BRB.

 

Quote: ... The vehicle may not fire any of its weapons in the same turn it used its smoke launchers...

 

Looks to me like it works. At least smoke can only be launched once per game.

[chaplain_quint]

i think he has a point.

[yergerjo]

Page 81 C:SM

 

Therefore, a Land Raider that has moved combat speed can fire two weapons, and a Land Raider that has moved cruising speed, or has suffered a 'Crew Stunned' or 'Crew Shaken' result may still fire a single weapon.

 

Or this is listing the exceptions to the rules.

[Isiah]

I'm getting confused: PotMS clearly tells us we can fire one weapon at cruisng speed, when stunned or when shaken – in other words where you couldn't normally fire anything. So where's the problem with that exactly? And as smoke can be triggered no matter how far a vehicle moved then speed/distance is not the issue.

 

The issue in this topic is using smoke and firing. Smoke doesn't allow any firing when triggering it, while PoTMS clearly allows it on the basis that one weapon may be fired that wouldn't normally be permitted. It becomes a question of which rule overrides the other.

[Steelmage99]

Apparently some people would like the exampels listed, to be the only cases where PotMS can help.

[Isiah]

Ah yes I see... because it doesn't say PotMS "may fire one weapon when smoke is triggered" (or something like)? Well I think the list of eventualities linked to PotMS rule on p81 isn't exhaustive, simple as that.

[chaplain_quint]

Apparently some people would like the exampels listed, to be the only cases where PotMS can help.

If that is the case then PotMS could allmost never fire!

[Tanker11]

The rule for POTMS is a blanket rule allowing them to fire an additional weapon period. It does not include any carve outs. For those that point out that when smoke is triggered it says that a vehicle may not fire that sets the number of weapons allowed to fire at zero and as others pointed out above 0+1= 1.

[chaplain_quint]

it is very clear, it always lets you fire one more weapon.

[Praeger]

Page 81 C:SM

 

Therefore, a Land Raider that has moved combat speed can fire two weapons, and a Land Raider that has moved cruising speed, or has suffered a 'Crew Stunned' or 'Crew Shaken' result may still fire a single weapon.

 

This is right below the paragraph quoted in the previous post.

 

Thanks for that!!

 

This is exactly what I was asking for and honestly cant work out why some people could not read my requests (and the reason for it).

 

Now that I can see the quote, yes I agree that it should be allowed.

 

I'm getting confused: PotMS clearly tells us we can fire one weapon at cruisng speed, when stunned or when shaken – in other words where you couldn't normally fire anything. So where's the problem with that exactly? And as smoke can be triggered no matter how far a vehicle moved then speed/distance is not the issue.

 

Dont worry Isiah - problem was I dont have my codex at the moment, and even after requesting the quote be posted some people like to ignore requests and instead bicker ;)

[shatter]

Page 81 C:SM

 

Therefore, a Land Raider that has moved combat speed can fire two weapons, and a Land Raider that has moved cruising speed, or has suffered a 'Crew Stunned' or 'Crew Shaken' result may still fire a single weapon.

 

Or this is listing the exceptions to the rules.

 

By RAW codex precedence lets ONLY THESE EXCEPTIONS be usable despite the ambiguity offered by the word 'Therefore,'. You cannot add smoke (because it's not written) to that list just because it seems similar. To carry it further, to an irrational degree, you may as well keep firing after the tank is destroyed. BLEEP! I have still one more! BLEEP!

 

From a fluff perspective, if you're popping smoke, maybe the machine spirit is trying to hide too. An Assault Cannon blazing away in the midst of smoke negatively impacts on the smoke's effectiveness.

 

To me at least, popping smoke pretty much replaces the shooting phase.