pwrserge Posted April 11, 2009 Share Posted April 11, 2009 Having extensively examined the new guard book, I have come across something that I am afraid will give us a world of hurt brothers. I specifically referto to Guardsman Marbo. While I will not post complete stat lines here is a quich highlight summary. He costs a little less than two terminators. Comes with a demo pack. Can be PLACED anywhere on the board more than 1 inch away from an enemy model and does not scatter. Comes with a AP2 sniper pistol. Has WS comprable to a chaplain. Has more attachs base than a space marine captain. Always wounds on a 2+ in CC. Just last night I saw this guy pop up, blast 6 plague marines into goo, and next turn visciously knife a greater deamon to death. Any ideas about how we would deal with such a model? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165747-how-to-deal-with-rambo/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nodd Posted April 11, 2009 Share Posted April 11, 2009 He is still only intiative 3..toughness 3..so once hit he will die just as easy..I looked at the codex yesterday as well. Ironhand Straken looks better..man what a Tank. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165747-how-to-deal-with-rambo/#findComment-1950997 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Malachi Posted April 11, 2009 Share Posted April 11, 2009 Just fist him to death............hell just hit him with a relic blade and he'll die. This is assuming he doesn't have eternal warrior, I can't say for sure he doesn't but he better not. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165747-how-to-deal-with-rambo/#findComment-1951007 Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwrserge Posted April 11, 2009 Author Share Posted April 11, 2009 But emperors holly prostate! Right? I mean seriously, just the demo charge can mess up your entire day. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165747-how-to-deal-with-rambo/#findComment-1951034 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cedric Posted April 11, 2009 Share Posted April 11, 2009 Let's hope the DC scatters back on him, then... =) Is the DC still a "fire and discard the entire model" type of weapon, say? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165747-how-to-deal-with-rambo/#findComment-1951040 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyron Posted April 11, 2009 Share Posted April 11, 2009 Damn these Guard are so OP :tu: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165747-how-to-deal-with-rambo/#findComment-1951050 Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwrserge Posted April 11, 2009 Author Share Posted April 11, 2009 No the DC is no longer a fire and forget weapon. The crazy part is that guard realy are retardedly broken now. I play guard and I shudder to think what I could do to most players with the new book. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165747-how-to-deal-with-rambo/#findComment-1951084 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Malachi Posted April 11, 2009 Share Posted April 11, 2009 Everyone calls cheese every single time a new codex comes out, I'm really not worried about anything here. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165747-how-to-deal-with-rambo/#findComment-1951100 Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatcrusade08 Posted April 11, 2009 Share Posted April 11, 2009 The biggest problem is GW doesnt playtest its new rules sets, so everytime they overdo a new list to bring it in line with the others, they usually end up going a little crazy.. This results in armies getting harder and harder and are becoming broken, if this continues 40k will just be stoopid! GC08 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165747-how-to-deal-with-rambo/#findComment-1951111 Share on other sites More sharing options...
waaanial00 Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 next turn visciously knife a greater deamon to death. OK fair enough he has some interesting sounding stats and special rules (which considering he is a Guardsmen and can do things that Assassins cant is completely stupid - way to go GW you complete bunch of muppets) but how is it possible that he: a) Survived any shooting if the person who stated he is T3 is correct and I assume he can only have a SV of 4+ or Stealth. :lol: Hit a greater Demon with every single attack and for the Greater Demon to drop every save (it doesnt sound like a power weapon). c) Got the drop on an entire Chaos army without, it appears, any reaction or counter attack? He sounds like an interesting suicide troop but doesnt really scream longevity. Welcoming the new most overused character to the board it seems. Why is it that GW keep making the same mistakes in turning the game into a massive vehicle for stupid special characters, that is what ruined 2nd edition and what is going to ruin this one as well. By the way I am not screaming cheese I am merely pointing out my distaste with GW forgetting about the fluff of these armies and deciding to borrow too much from Hollywood. Wan Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165747-how-to-deal-with-rambo/#findComment-1951669 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cedric Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 Where are you guys getting these sneak peeks of the new codex, anyway? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165747-how-to-deal-with-rambo/#findComment-1951694 Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwrserge Posted April 12, 2009 Author Share Posted April 12, 2009 In my case it is from the copy of said codex sitting on my table. Being a long running manager of a LGS has its advantages. But yeah, Rambo has stealth. Which given him a 3+ cover save most of the time. My main problem with this unit is that there is almost no chance of it not getting inserted into every tournament guard list. For his points value, and the fact that he only takes up a single elites choice, there is no better buy in the guard codex. Now add in squadrons of 3 Leman Russ MBTs weighing in at under 500 points for 3 vehicles and one heavy choice, and for under 10000 points you can bring 6 pie plates to the game. While still having plenty of points to spend on miscelaneous secondary units. Ultimately, the guard codex suffers from the same problem as the Ork codex. Your basic troops are moderately effective but too cheap. I can easily field 10 tanks (actual FA 12+ vehicles) in a 1850 point list and still put 70 - 100 guardsmen on the board. But dow do you deal with something that gets placed and then drops a demo charge? Forgeting all his other special rules... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165747-how-to-deal-with-rambo/#findComment-1952371 Share on other sites More sharing options...
foster Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 Use units with infiltrate special rules and prey to get first turn, thats assuming that the new "Rambo" has to be deployed with the rest of the imperial force or comes from reserves like normal units. A flaming Land Speeder Storm with shotgun scouts could get the drop on this guy or even a Scout bike squad with 6 grenade shots carpeting the area. I could be wrong and that he can pop up anywhere any turn on the field, which would mean bye bye Land Raider. BTW how many "Rambo's" can be bought in one game? Is he a single modal or can he bring a squad with him when he pops up? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165747-how-to-deal-with-rambo/#findComment-1952618 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warp Angel Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 Sly Marbo is going to do a LOT of harm if he hits with the template he tosses at BS 5. But it is an ordinance weapon, and as such he can't move and 'fire' it, nor can he fire his pistol. If you can't kill a 3 wound, 5+ save, T3 model with some shooting before he assaults, you've got issues. If you can't beat him in assault more often than not, you've got issues. On the weak side, he takes up an elites slot... the same slot as Ogryns (zomg HTH madness), and Stormtroopers with their AP3 yummies. The biggest problem guard are going to have (I'm a guard player too) is fitting all of this neat stuff into their army in a way that synergizes well. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165747-how-to-deal-with-rambo/#findComment-1952631 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castus Xanthis Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 AP:3 confirmed eh? Anyway according to the fluff Sly was the best stealther and knife fighter in any catachan regiment. If he didn't want you to see him you wouldn't. And the whole "pop up an throw a demo charge" thing already happens with the old codex. You take last chancers with maxed out demo charges and deep strike them. Effective suicide troops. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165747-how-to-deal-with-rambo/#findComment-1953027 Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwrserge Posted April 13, 2009 Author Share Posted April 13, 2009 The problem is that he does not deep strike, he is PLACED. As such, that demo charge will always be in the right place at the right time. It is not my largest complaint that said model cannot be kiled, it is that there is no way to do so before the demo charge earns his player the points back that he spent on him, several times over with a good target. If it causes the marine player to divert a squad to deal with him afterwards, so much the better. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165747-how-to-deal-with-rambo/#findComment-1953060 Share on other sites More sharing options...
foster Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 I'll shall ask again, how does "Rambo" appear on the field? Does he appear any turn the imperial guard player chooses or does he have to appear once the armies are deployed? All I want to know is will any infiltrating unit I have be able to intercept "Rambo" before he can set his charge. Throw me a bone here pls. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165747-how-to-deal-with-rambo/#findComment-1953430 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black_Sky Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 He deploys from reserve using a safe deep strike with no scatter. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165747-how-to-deal-with-rambo/#findComment-1953479 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarKHaZZ13 Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 Everyone calls cheese every single time a new codex comes out, I'm really not worried about anything here. seconded tis not that broken its awesome but just tweked it still has the same flaws ie: guardsmen suck and tank heavy is too easy too dismantle... even easier with squadrons so relax marines still own Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165747-how-to-deal-with-rambo/#findComment-1953515 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShinyRhino Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 He deploys from reserve using a safe deep strike with no scatter. Then he won't be doing anything the turn he arrives, beyond shooting his pistol at you. Light him up on your turn, and assault him. No demo charge for him. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165747-how-to-deal-with-rambo/#findComment-1953535 Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwrserge Posted April 13, 2009 Author Share Posted April 13, 2009 You are correct, he can do nothing except shoot the turn he comes down. However, he has a DEMO CHARGE. ST 8 AP 2 5" Blast That alone makes him rediculous against other deep striking / elite armies. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165747-how-to-deal-with-rambo/#findComment-1953544 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cedric Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 Yet another reason to ally in some =][= mystics for anti-DS duty. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165747-how-to-deal-with-rambo/#findComment-1953550 Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwrserge Posted April 13, 2009 Author Share Posted April 13, 2009 Except that he does not DS. It is a form of infiltration that does not use the DS rules. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165747-how-to-deal-with-rambo/#findComment-1953574 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShinyRhino Posted April 14, 2009 Share Posted April 14, 2009 Like I said, he can't do jack the turn he comes in. Light him up. If he's T3, a single tactical squad should wipe him out in a single volley. Heck, one Krak missile, plasma shot, etc etc should turn him into a fine red mist with a single shot. Sounds like a fun distraction for the IG players, but not a game-breaker by himself. I can see him panicking a squirrely player, but not anyone with a level head. His best use is probably to hit an HQ squad with the demo charge, or as a "red flag" to draw fire from a more reliable and crucial Guard unit. He's a squeak-toy. The Guard player drops him on the table and says "Come here, Boy! Come here!" Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165747-how-to-deal-with-rambo/#findComment-1954216 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olesh Posted April 14, 2009 Share Posted April 14, 2009 Isn't his demolition charge an assault weapon, not an ordinance (thus allowing him to use it the turn he comes in)? The main problem with him seems to be that he pops up onto the table, throws his demo charge (with BS5, hitting with perfect accuracy more than 50% of the time) - sure, he then gets gunned down, but the problem is that he took out a squad of terminators or sternguard down with him in the process with zero ability to prevent. Even if you know it's coming, there's literally nothing you can do about it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165747-how-to-deal-with-rambo/#findComment-1954613 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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