Warp Angel Posted April 14, 2009 Share Posted April 14, 2009 Isn't his demolition charge an assault weapon, not an ordinance (thus allowing him to use it the turn he comes in)? The main problem with him seems to be that he pops up onto the table, throws his demo charge (with BS5, hitting with perfect accuracy more than 50% of the time) - sure, he then gets gunned down, but the problem is that he took out a squad of terminators or sternguard down with him in the process with zero ability to prevent. Even if you know it's coming, there's literally nothing you can do about it. I don't recall demolition charges being assault ordinance. I thought they were just ordinance weapons. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165747-how-to-deal-with-rambo/page/2/#findComment-1954655 Share on other sites More sharing options...
RastlinD Posted April 14, 2009 Share Posted April 14, 2009 Hey just checked the codex it is indeed an assault 1 weapon Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165747-how-to-deal-with-rambo/page/2/#findComment-1954695 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warp Angel Posted April 14, 2009 Share Posted April 14, 2009 Ouch. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165747-how-to-deal-with-rambo/page/2/#findComment-1954713 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor's Instrument Posted April 14, 2009 Share Posted April 14, 2009 I got hit with a demo charge the other week and lost a ten man assault squad before they even had a chance to move!! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165747-how-to-deal-with-rambo/page/2/#findComment-1954760 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muad'Dib Posted April 14, 2009 Share Posted April 14, 2009 That sounds horribly wrong :lol: And I am a Guard player as well. Now, I just won't use him, but still.... Somehow, that was always what I liked about my Guard...they were just...you know...losers ^_^ I hardly ever won a game, but they were all fun and entertaining. Well, but I'm sure, I can still write lists that do that B) I, for one, am not interested in uber guard (ah, it sounds so funny to use "uber" on English :teehee: ) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165747-how-to-deal-with-rambo/page/2/#findComment-1954866 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gornall Posted April 14, 2009 Share Posted April 14, 2009 Hey just checked the codex it is indeed an assault 1 weapon Doh... What exactly is a demo charge? High Str, Low AP Pie-plate? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165747-how-to-deal-with-rambo/page/2/#findComment-1954873 Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwrserge Posted April 15, 2009 Author Share Posted April 15, 2009 Basicaly it's a satchel full of TNT. St 8 AP 2 5 inch blast aka PAIN Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165747-how-to-deal-with-rambo/page/2/#findComment-1954958 Share on other sites More sharing options...
asur03 Posted April 15, 2009 Share Posted April 15, 2009 Everyone calls cheese every single time a new codex comes out, I'm really not worried about anything here. Yes I'm sure GW a multi-million dollar company doesn't "test" their product prior to putting it on the market. I mean it's not like they've been providing a quality hobby for 20+ years. That wouldn't make any sense at all. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165747-how-to-deal-with-rambo/page/2/#findComment-1955015 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olesh Posted April 15, 2009 Share Posted April 15, 2009 GW isn't perfect; otherwise why would they need rules FAQs and errata? Regarding this individual unit, I think GW dropped the ball. This is a fire and forget unit that has a better than 50% chance of making his points back without even trying and with no defense possible. You should probably expect to see him in a majority of lists because there's no stopping him and there's always the chance that he managed to survive long enough to get into an assault, too. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165747-how-to-deal-with-rambo/page/2/#findComment-1955156 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Top Secret Posted April 15, 2009 Share Posted April 15, 2009 After reading up on this guy in the codex BROKEN at that point value. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165747-how-to-deal-with-rambo/page/2/#findComment-1955176 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaylen Posted April 15, 2009 Share Posted April 15, 2009 Str 8 Ap 2 Pie Plate? Hrmm. I think "Cover" is the operative word here. Won't be much help for tanks though. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165747-how-to-deal-with-rambo/page/2/#findComment-1955312 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShinyRhino Posted April 15, 2009 Share Posted April 15, 2009 Hey just checked the codex it is indeed an assault 1 weapon Disgusting. I guess the only defense is as listed above, cover saves. I'll have to wait til I read the codex myself before I can think of any other response to the guy. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165747-how-to-deal-with-rambo/page/2/#findComment-1955489 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty the Pyro Posted April 15, 2009 Share Posted April 15, 2009 Here's the thing with marbo, he is somewhere between the chapter masters orbital bombardment, and a lictor. So while orb bombardment is stronger (str 10 ap1 vs str 8 ap2) this will only make a difference against T7 fexen and wraithguard (and in instant deathing T5's), but the det charge is much, much more accurate (acounting the 3 inch improved acuracy for a large pie plate (2.5 from marker, .5 from model base)) orb bombardment has 39% accuracy (vs a single target) and marbo's det pack has 72% acuracy (vs a single target). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165747-how-to-deal-with-rambo/page/2/#findComment-1955627 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz1858 Posted April 15, 2009 Share Posted April 15, 2009 Well he does sound like a very useful character. Guessing 70ish points. Need to see how well it does on the tabletop. Too often things in the codex seem better than they are on the table. Vanguard and Sternguard in my experience. Ironclad however rocks. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165747-how-to-deal-with-rambo/page/2/#findComment-1955644 Share on other sites More sharing options...
theredcorsair Posted April 15, 2009 Share Posted April 15, 2009 Everyone calls cheese every single time a new codex comes out, I'm really not worried about anything here. Umm... Chaos codex? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165747-how-to-deal-with-rambo/page/2/#findComment-1956008 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Malachi Posted April 15, 2009 Share Posted April 15, 2009 Everyone calls cheese every single time a new codex comes out, I'm really not worried about anything here. Umm... Chaos codex? What about it? Are you saying people didn't claim cheese and were proved wrong (even though it's not a cheesy army)? Are you saying it's hard to beat? Easy to beat? Or are you saying something else entirely? On topic- Marbo gives the guard a nice little something, so what? All armies have nice little somethings, I don't see the problem. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165747-how-to-deal-with-rambo/page/2/#findComment-1956076 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olesh Posted April 15, 2009 Share Posted April 15, 2009 What about it? Are you saying people didn't claim cheese and were proved wrong (even though it's not a cheesy army)? Are you saying it's hard to beat? Easy to beat? Or are you saying something else entirely? On topic- Marbo gives the guard a nice little something, so what? All armies have nice little somethings, I don't see the problem. People are looking at this and going; "Wait. So this guy deep strikes in, except with no scatter, with a better than 2/3 chance of being able to annihilate a unit of terminators, sternguard, tyranid warriors, or other expensive unit that I field, and there's absolutely nothing I can do to prevent it short of sticking all my expensive troops in a transport where they will do almost no good?" And yes, I can see their point. I'm particularly unconcerned about Morbo, but that's because the only thing he could reasonably go after in my army lists with his AP2 blast template are tyranid warriors or zoanthropes, both of which are multiple wound models. Sure, he could try and bomb a hive tyrant or carnifex but at that point I wouldn't even turn around and swat him because he's got zero ability to affect the rest of the battle short of plinking away for a maximum 5 turns with a pistol - with which he'll inflict an average of 3.4 wounds. He's got exceptional CC abilities for a guardsman, and the poisoned weapon + pistol is a nice touch but it doesn't stop the fact that he's a T3 model that will get his face smashed in by scouts that assault him. He's got no power weapon (that I'm aware of, not having a codex) and is only going to kill a single marine on the charge. In short, the only thing he really has going for him is the ability to drop a S8, AP2 pie plate effectively anywhere on the table, once. And it's good enough and cheap enough that most everyone will want to use him for that ability, because it can't be stopped or interfered with. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165747-how-to-deal-with-rambo/page/2/#findComment-1956121 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mycroft Holmes Posted April 15, 2009 Share Posted April 15, 2009 sigh... I've avoided putting my marines into rhinos for awhile because the Run rule allows you to get to objectives just as well as a transport. But with the plain silly number of ap3 weapons making their way into the game it's basically become a necessity. Seriously, in the C:SM and C:IG there are 3 new units with Template ap 3 weapons. IG were already very strong. Now it's going to take a speciallized army to be competative with them. Mycroft Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165747-how-to-deal-with-rambo/page/2/#findComment-1956153 Share on other sites More sharing options...
PotMs Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 To be honest ive read the 'dex a couple of times at the local store and as a marine and a guard player i can see what they have done with both armys lately to make them more appealing but i can still see both armys inherant flaws. Guard are still that.. Guard. hit them with anything above a lasgun and they fall over, the only army that guard have a decent chance to ignore most the shooting from is guard. crazy! but as to Marbo, yeah hes pretty funky.. but it wasnt that long ago Guard codex had the assassin list from WH/DH in the guard codex so fluff/rules yeah it makes sense.. his actual tabletop ability? i might use him... maybe. I can see his worth for the points but there is alot of 'shiney' stuff in the new codex that people will want to try out. Anyone that uses reserves/outflank game.. a heads up that got missed in every rumor page i read on here/dakka/warsear, the Advisor 'Master of the Fleet's Intercept Reserves rule does as people have said make your opponant -1 on reserve rolls which is bad.. but also '..if any enemy units arrive using the outflank rule, you may choose to make your opponant reroll the dice used to determine which board edge these units arrive from' For someone that costs less than a Rhino the ability to mess with the reserve roll and the outflank roll is going to be used alot methinks Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165747-how-to-deal-with-rambo/page/2/#findComment-1956310 Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaiserstole20 Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 Not sure this makes anyone feel better, but he's as good or even better against Orks. Nobs? Splat. And he gets initiative on them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165747-how-to-deal-with-rambo/page/2/#findComment-1956794 Share on other sites More sharing options...
I AM THE AWESOME Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 To be honest ive read the 'dex a couple of times at the local store and as a marine and a guard player i can see what they have done with both armys lately to make them more appealing but i can still see both armys inherant flaws. Guard are still that.. Guard. hit them with anything above a lasgun and they fall over, the only army that guard have a decent chance to ignore most the shooting from is guard. crazy! but as to Marbo, yeah hes pretty funky.. but it wasnt that long ago Guard codex had the assassin list from WH/DH in the guard codex so fluff/rules yeah it makes sense.. his actual tabletop ability? i might use him... maybe. I can see his worth for the points but there is alot of 'shiney' stuff in the new codex that people will want to try out. Anyone that uses reserves/outflank game.. a heads up that got missed in every rumor page i read on here/dakka/warsear, the Advisor 'Master of the Fleet's Intercept Reserves rule does as people have said make your opponant -1 on reserve rolls which is bad.. but also '..if any enemy units arrive using the outflank rule, you may choose to make your opponant reroll the dice used to determine which board edge these units arrive from' For someone that costs less than a Rhino the ability to mess with the reserve roll and the outflank roll is going to be used alot methinks Hint... they can still take assassins. I see no incredible problem with it. It's not that much different from a Chapter Master's Orbital Bombardment, except you have NO defense against the Chapter Master's, as it is Barrage. Mmm... I think I've talked myself into using my CM again ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165747-how-to-deal-with-rambo/page/2/#findComment-1956881 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castus Xanthis Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 BoLS has an excellent tactica up now here. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165747-how-to-deal-with-rambo/page/2/#findComment-1957131 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warp Angel Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 I remain unconvinced that he's better than: a) A squad of stormtroopers :P A squad of psykers c) A squad of ogryns And given that I only have 3 elite slots, I'm not sure he's worth a force org slot with other cool stuff in it, regardless of his 'cheap points cost', since he's unlikely to survive a single game. Maybe in a sub 1000 point battle... but still. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165747-how-to-deal-with-rambo/page/2/#findComment-1957168 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castus Xanthis Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 Ditto. He may be cool but having a squad of psykers to fuel an Animus Speculum (which becomes a S5 AP1 Assault 11 weapon with a full squad) is much better. Even the Ogryn are better. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165747-how-to-deal-with-rambo/page/2/#findComment-1957205 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warp Angel Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 Ditto. He may be cool but having a squad of psykers to fuel an Animus Speculum (which becomes a S5 AP1 Assault 11 weapon with a full squad) is much better. Even the Ogryn are better. The whole squad only counts as one psyker for the purposes of the Animus if my take on the rules is right. The _unit_ gets the psyker trait, not the models. Amusingly enough this means that if the non-psyker minder guy, the unit still counts as a psyker. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165747-how-to-deal-with-rambo/page/2/#findComment-1957274 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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