starting up a SoB army . . . .sorta

[Saxxon the Dragoon]

okay, well i have been looking at witch hunters for awhile now, and just picked up their codex, and a full 10 girl squad, and a squad of seraphim. as it stands right now i plan on only using them with my GK or my marines, mostly just with my GK though, and i was wondering what i should give them and do with them. as it stands right now they will mostly just be my fire line and some fast moving assaulters for my slow GK army, but i plan on expanding to a full SoB army of atleast 1500 if not more. i plan on getting maybe another battle squad, some more seraphim and a squad of sisters repentia and i have an exorcist on order. so can you all give me some good tactical ideas and thoughts on how to effectively use them with my GK until i get me sisters armies up and running?

[ValourousHeart]

You'll want to both expand your sera squad to at least 7-8 models and give the vet an evisorator.

 

You'll also want to pick up the following upgrades for you sister squad... 1 melta gun, 1 heavy flamer, and 1 Immolator.

The immolator can't be used by the sister squad... but the rhino can, and later you can use the immolator for another unit or by itself if you want to.

 

Next you'll want to get a second rhino squad and a canoness (flying nun of doom).

 

This will give you a good ally force to tuck into either a GK or SM list, but is also a nice start to an SOB army.

 

As you build up to your full SOB army, you'll want a third and forth squad like the one in the rhino.

These unist are the heart and soul of WH, and you can never go wrong with them.

 

About the time you are getting your third troop unit, you'll want to get a second sera unit.

 

You also want to pick up 2 exorcists, you'll want a third one eventually... but 2 is all you really need at 1500 pts

 

Obviously this is a mech build, i didn't ask if you had a preference on that.

[Obliterator]

Battle Sisters

 

I currently use 3 Battle Sisters squads, all with different setups:

- 12 Battle Sisters, 2 with meltaguns, VSS with book of St.Lucius (anti-big stuff)

- 12 Battle Sisters, flamer/heavy flamer combo , VSS with book of St.Lucius (anti-horde and units in cover)

- 12 Battle Sisters, 2 with stormbolters, VSS with book of St.Lucius and stormbolter (covering bolter fire, even on the move)

My army is footslogging it at the moment as the servs are too damn slow on the Rhino paintjobs, but I find 12-14 girls in a footslogging squad is a good size. I tend to specialise my units as you can see, so they all got a clear purpose in the battle. If you should learn one thing about my squads, it's this: you'll want some books of St.Lucius :D

 

Seraphim

 

I love these girls. I run two units of 6 Seraphim at the moment, with the hand flamers/inferno pistols combo. The units are rather small but I mostly use them as mobile tankhunters. Seraphim are by no means assault marines, but if you were going to use them as an infantry assaulter you need to bulk out the unit up to 8-10 Seraphim, and get the VSS an Eviscarator as ValourousHeart suggested. Every possibility to increase the puny S3 should be taken with both hands :P

 

Sisters Repentia

 

I don't have a lot of experience with these. They sound like a fun element to have around, but if you want a highly competitive unit you might want to ignore these girls at first. Holy Rage does get them in combat sooner, but leaves you with little control on what to assault or where to go. I also find that the steep cost/model is not justified for a single wound model with a 4+ save. Chances are these aren't going to live to assault the enemy.

 

Exorcists

 

I love mine, but as ValourousHeart stated don't field a single one as that's giving points to the enemy. I field 2 to lay down a crossfire, and it works great. Before you to your local dealer: you'll only be able to use these in a WH parent list. I'll typically give mine just extra armour, as you want these babies to shoot whenever they can.

[Apogee]

Remember the ally rules!

One HQ, One Elite, Two Troops, One FA, NO HEAVIES.

 

This means that if you use your sisters as allies of your knights you can't take an exorcists, so don't buy one.

 

Now, since that's out of the way...

 

Seraphim are a great ally unit to take, so I whole-heartedly agree with taking a full squad of 10. Also, I stick with a power sword for them; they already have kraks for tank work, and gainst infantry, I'd rather go at I4 (or 6!) and kill them first. However, they eat up faith points by the dozen, so you'll want to take at least a Cannoness for the extra two points. I'd reccomend taking the Cannonness with a retinue (another faith point) and using them as a small firebase, so that they don't end up using a whack of faith as well. I don't think you can take Celestine as an ally, but if you can, she'd be best by far; has Hit 'n run, and gives 3 faith. Can anyone give a ruling on that?

 

Sisters as troop choices are awesome, and either run them as mounted with heavy flamer/flamer or heavy flamer/melta, or take gigantic squads with two stormbolters. This is suprisingly efective, I find. Also, an Eviscerator can be handy if you can afford the points; chops up assaulters nicely and has a big meatshield of sisters.

For elites, you can take either Repentia or Celestians. Celestians give you a cheap faith point, and can get you Immos as a transport (the Cannoness can too, for that matter). They can also get a HB or MM and be a small firebase. For faith generation, I use them that way. Repentia are a one shot killer - get a big squad (more than 10) and add a priest - if they survive to the initiative 1 part, they will cut down anything. Great against termies, nobs, and other things with klaws and fists. Don't expect a second charge (at least, not a big one). They're pretty much mutually assured destruction devices :).

 

And yes, don't bother with th exo or independant Immolator, since you can't take heavy support with allies. Obnoxious.

 

So, base on what you said you wanted (fireline + Seraphim)

 

HQ: Canoness with Celestians with a HB or MM and Stormbolter. Cannoness with Blessed Weapon or Eviscerator, Cloak of St. Aspiria, BoSL.

Alternatively, St. Celestine if it's allowed; she'd go with the Seraphim and melt faces.

 

Elites: Repentia squad (Box has 12 + mistress, grab a priest too) - hold them in reserve for counter-charges.

 

Troops: Two sister squads, as big as you want them / can afford:P. Two Storm Bolters, Superior with Eviserator and whatever else you want (prob bolt pistol)

 

FA: Ten Seraphim, 2 flamers, Superior with bolt pistol and power sword.

 

 

And just for those who tl;dr, can Celestine be taken as an ally? That would be awesome.

[Obliterator]

And just for those who tl;dr, can Celestine be taken as an ally? That would be awesome.

Nope, only a Witch Hunters army of 1500 points or more can take Saint Celestine, so you'll need at least a WH core.

[Saxxon the Dragoon]

well i plan on using my WH and DH interchangeably between who is main and who is ally. as it stands right now i will only be using my BB as a fireline and tank hunters (since GK dont really have anything for that role) but as i expand my WH army, when i get an exorcist or two and more units, i will probably be fielding my BB as a main force and have my DH as all my boosted heavy unit killers.

[Apogee]

And just for those who tl;dr, can Celestine be taken as an ally? That would be awesome.

Nope, only a Witch Hunters army of 1500 points or more can take Saint Celestine, so you'll need at least a WH core.

Dang... I was wondering if that applied. It is a WH army in a sense... just a small one :P. Can you take the Marine characters as allies?

[Reclusiarch Darius]

okay, well i have been looking at witch hunters for awhile now, and just picked up their codex, and a full 10 girl squad, and a squad of seraphim. as it stands right now i plan on only using them with my GK or my marines, mostly just with my GK though, and i was wondering what i should give them and do with them. as it stands right now they will mostly just be my fire line and some fast moving assaulters for my slow GK army, but i plan on expanding to a full SoB army of atleast 1500 if not more. i plan on getting maybe another battle squad, some more seraphim and a squad of sisters repentia and i have an exorcist on order. so can you all give me some good tactical ideas and thoughts on how to effectively use them with my GK until i get me sisters armies up and running?

 

So (correct me if I'm wrong), you want a good template for allying the SoB into an existing SM/DH army, at least until you can progress to a full SoB army? I'd recommend the following;

 

HQ:

 

Canoness, eviscerator, inferno pistol, jump pack, Cloak, Book, Mantle

(145 points)

 

Troops:

 

(2) VSS w/Book+combi-flamer, 7 x Sisters, Sister w/meltagun, Sister w/heavy flamer, Rhino w/extra armour+smokes

(219 points each)

 

Fast Attack:

 

VSS w/eviscerator+Book, 4 x Seraphim, 2 x Seraphim w/twin-hand flamers

(208 points)

 

 

791 points, so about half your army at 1,500pts. However, the mechanised SoB will destroy infantry much faster than your Tactical/Sternguard squads, and they're quite good as tarpits for MC's (being able to turn on 3+ invul). In a DH force, they're great for sweeping objectives clear in conjunction with Grey Knights (although considering the Knights will most likely pack incinerators, you can swap the heavy flamer for another meltagun if you wish).

The Canoness travels up the board with the Seraphim, before detaching to hunt tanks/IC's/MC's. The Seraphim are busy chasing enemy infantry or killing vehicles.

 

Mechanised SoB are great for providing a mobile screen to advancing PAGK. Once the SoB are engaged in combat, they can hold enemy assault units in place until you counter-assault with the PAGK, finishing them off.

 

When you do expand into a pure SoB list, I'd make the following changes;

 

HQ:

 

Canoness w/eviscerator+brazier, Cloak, Mantle, Book

Priest w/eviscerator+brazier, power armour

VSS w/eviscerator+brazier

5 x Celestians, Celestian w/meltagun, Celestian w/heavy flamer

Rhino w/extra armour+smokes

(492 points)

 

Troops:

 

(3) VSS w/Book+combi-flamer, 7 x Sisters, Sister w/meltagun, Sister w/heavy flamer, Rhino w/extra armour+smokes

(219 points each)

 

Fast Attack:

 

(2) VSS w/eviscerator+Book, 4 x Seraphim, 2 x Seraphim w/twin-hand flamers

(208 points)

 

Heavy Support:

 

(3) Exorcist

(135 points each)

 

Total: 2,000pts

 

The Canoness+retinue eat anything that is thrown against them (with 'Martyr' they're 3+/3+ on all but the Canoness, who has 2+/2+), and provide a powerful close-combat 'tank' to support the mechanised SoB. The Seraphim are running around, ripping into enemy tanks and infantry. The Exorcists camp back and rain death into enemy MC's and tanks.

[daboarder]

wait she really cant be taken? oh bugger.

actually now i think on it it really is still a witch hunter army.

bah nvm this post

[Saxxon the Dragoon]

thanks darius, well as it stands now i doubt i will be fielding sob by themselves just yet, and i like the faith system they have, no if i can plan and figure it how and figure out what gives the max faith points to do fun things i will see how much i enjoy them.

 

how do sisters do against mob armies? are they good? better than marines or GKs? because thats mostly who i play against. i would assume having the exorsists and all the flamers and such would be good for them.

[Apogee]

Sisters are made to kil mobs. If you manage to rapidfire/flame them, anyhow. Rhinos can accomplish this, or fancy footwork. Easier from the Rhino, but the squad is 10 at the most and you pay for the Rhino...

[WarriorFish]

Everyone gives good advice here, so I'm posting to give a salute to a new SoB player! ^_^

 

Generally speaking, just make sure you have plenty of booties on the ground, preferably with Rhinos. Sprinkle meltas and flamers around and you can't go far wrong, especially when armed with plenty of faith in the almighty Emperor!

[Melissia]

And just for those who tl;dr, can Celestine be taken as an ally? That would be awesome.

Nope, only a Witch Hunters army of 1500 points or more can take Saint Celestine, so you'll need at least a WH core.

Dang... I was wondering if that applied. It is a WH army in a sense... just a small one ^_^. Can you take the Marine characters as allies?

Nope.

 

Here, I'll make it simple for ya:

 

 

If you are using C:SM as the base, it is a C:SM army. If you are using C:WH as the base, it is a C:WH army. So, if your base army is C:SM, and you ally in C:WH units? Can't use C:WH special characters. However, any army-wide rules from C:SM can effect C:WH units. If your base army is C:WH and you're allying in Marines (which means you can't use Sisters units), then you can't use C:SM special characters but you CAN use C:WH special characters.

 

 

The allies rules lets you do the following:

 

C:SM base

• Add C:WH Allies as part of a C:SM army
  
• Add C:DH Allies as part of a C:SM army
  

C:IG base

• Add C:WH Allies as part of a C:SM army
  
• Add C:DH Allies as part of a C:SM army
  

These two let you add 1 HQ, 1 Elite, 2 Troops, 1 Fast Attack from either C:WH / C:DH to a C:SM or C:IG army.

 

C:WH Base

• Add C:IG allies as part of a C:WH army
  
• Add C:DH allies as part of a C:WH army
  
• Add C:SM allies as part of a C:WH army, as long as it doesn't have Sisters of Battle
  

C:DH Base

• Add C:IG allies as part of a C:DH army
  
• Add C:WH allies as part of a C:DH army
  
• Add C:SM allies as part of a C:DH army, as long as it doesn't have Grey Knights
  

These rules allow you to add troops, fast attack, heavy support from C:SM and/or C:IG to a C:DH / C:WH army, with only the Leman Russ being limited (to 0-1), but the selection of troops you can ally/induct is limited tot he list on page 26 (in c:WH, unsure on C:DH). However, the C:WH player may take two armored fist squads without taking two infantry platoons, unlike a C:IG player.

 

 

Make sense?

[Saxxon the Dragoon]

in the DH codex, it has all the ally info for all the different forms of ally stuff on pages 21, 30, and 31