silly question: how many attacks does a standand marine have

[Bennethon]

I am a 40k noob, but I am playing with a couple of guys who are veterans. They seem to be under the impression that a space marine with the stock loadout (boltgun and pistol) will always have a minimum of 2 attacks in the assault phase. I think they are under the impression that a space marine can use his boltgun as a close combat weapon to gain the additional attack. But I can't find anything about this in the rules. I don't mind so much... since I am playing space marines and they aren't, but I'd like to play by the rules, ya know?

 

Thanks

[Brother Gothard]

They are wrong.

 

Charging, a marine with a boltgun gets 2 attacks: 1 as base, +0 for extra close combat weapons, and +1 for charging. Though he has a pistol and a boltgun, the boltgun is not a close combat weapon and thus he has only one close combat weapon (the pistol), which does not entitle him to a bonus attack. In subsequent rounds, the tactical marine will have only 1 attack: 1 as base, +0 for extra weapons, +0 for charging.

 

This applies to Codex: Space Marines tactical marines.

[HiveFleetEzekial]

I am a 40k noob, but I am playing with a couple of guys who are veterans.

 

 

Remember, with hobbies like this 'veteran' can be a loose term, thrown around like chump change. Just because they may have been playing longer, doesn't automatically make them right. When the two do actually happen, it's just coincident. A newbie can be just a correct, or incorrect, about a rule as someone that's been in the hobby since the begining. Actually, it tends to be a bit harder for some 'vets', as they mis-remember things, with older rules skewing or clouding their memory of how the current rules work.

 

 

As Gothard said, they were wrong.

[Gurth]

I think they are under the impression that a space marine can use his boltgun as a close combat weapon to gain the additional attack.

As has been said, the marine gets a single attack, plus another one if he's charging. Only marine that have another close combat weapon (like assault marines) get one basic attack, plus one for having two close-combat weapons, plus yet another attack on the turn they charge.

 

The use of the bolt pistol is not so much as a close combat weapon, but for allowing you to fire on the turn you want to charge into close combat — which the boltgun won't allow you to do because it's a rapid-fire weapon.

[Legatus]

They seem to be under the impression that a space marine with the stock loadout (boltgun and pistol) will always have a minimum of 2 attacks in the assault phase.

The way you describe it, they would be wrong. A Tactical Space Marine or Devastor from the new Codex Space Marines (or Codex DA or BA) with a Boltgun and Boltpistol would NOT get an additional attack for being armed with two close combat weapons. The bolt pistol can be used in close combat, but the Boltgun cannot.

 

But since you describe yourself as a "noob", I will not rule out that they had a very specific type of Space Marine, with special rules, which you did not notice.

 

- Space Wolves or Grey Knights in power armour

These have a special rule called "sure grip" which allows them to use boltguns in combat. Since they also come with regular close combat weapons, that means they get an additional attack for having two close combat weapons. The "sure grip" ability does not work when the unit is charging, so on that turn they would only have as mcuh attacks as other charging marines with boltguns would have.

 

- Chaos Space Marines

Other than their loyalist brothers, Chaos Marines are armed witha Boltgun, a Bolt Pistol AND a Close Combat Weapon. The exception are Thousand Sons Marines, who only have the Boltgun, and Khorne Berserker, who only have the BP and CCW. So Chaos Marines usually allways have two close combat weapons.

 

- Veterans (SM, BA, DA)

Veterans have two base attacks, and then depending on their equipment may or may not get additional attacks for two close combat weapons.

 

But an ordinary Tactical Marine from Codex Space Marines, with his Boltgun and Bolt Pistol, would NOT get an additional attack for two close combat weapons. The Rulebook pages 29 and 42 both describe that pistols can be used in combat as a normal close combat weapons. Boltguns are not pistols, and they have no other such special rules. Having the boltpistol does not grant Marines an additional attacks, and is not intended to. What it does is it allows them to shoot at the enemy with their pistols before charging. If they would fire their boltguns they would then not be allowed to assault (which is not allowed after using rapid fire weapons). It is a small but handy upgrade over the previous marine codices, where they would have to chose between either firing their boltguns but not assault or assaulting and not shooting at all.

[Bennethon]

^ nah, I am none of those. Just standard, Codex Space Marines.

 

Thanks for the answer guys! :D Now I have to decide whether to tell my friends or not. Lol, just kidding.

 

Was there possibly a time in the past where this was true? Maybe in a older edition of the rules? Regardless, it makes a lot more sense now. Thanks again.

[Legatus]

No, a Boltgun was never a close combat weapon (with the exception of the "sure grip" special rule for Space Wolves, Grey Knights and Plague Marines in the last Codex Chaos) , and nomral tactical Marines have allways had 1 base attack.

[Gurth]

"sure grip"

You mean "True Grit" :lol:

[Legatus]

Oh, yes, "True Grit". I know it by a different name usually.

[Praeger]

Remember, with hobbies like this 'veteran' can be a loose term, thrown around like chump change. Just because they may have been playing longer, doesn't automatically make them right. When the two do actually happen, it's just coincident. A newbie can be just a correct, or incorrect, about a rule as someone that's been in the hobby since the begining. Actually, it tends to be a bit harder for some 'vets', as they mis-remember things, with older rules skewing or clouding their memory of how the current rules work.

 

True true.

 

Iv been playing since the end of 2nd edition and even though that dosnt make me the longest player it does mean iv been playing for a heck of a long time - and ill be the first to admit that thanks to 5th edition iv made more rules mistakes then ever!! (rolling to hit with blast weapons for example)

[Lo0mis]

Hello. I too am a total noob to 40K and had a question very similar to the OP and thought that rather than start another thread on a similar topic I'd interject on this conversation.

 

I'm curious about the tac marine sergeant attack count. his base is 2, but if he's equipped with a pistol and chainsword is it 2+1? OR, if he was equipped with a standard bolter, would he be dropped down to 1 like a standard marine? I guess what I'm asking is are his base stats taking into account his "typical" gear or is he just more of a badass?

[JamesI]

Number of attacks in profile is irrelevant of gear. So the sergeant has 2, then if he has a bolt pistol and chainsword he has 3.

[Gurth]

I'm curious about the tac marine sergeant attack count. his base is 2, but if he's equipped with a pistol and chainsword is it 2+1? OR, if he was equipped with a standard bolter, would he be dropped down to 1 like a standard marine? I guess what I'm asking is are his base stats taking into account his "typical" gear or is he just more of a badass?

He is more badass. In previous editions of the codex, the sergeant had a single attack like the other marines (the only real difference between them was that the sergeant could swap his bolter for a bolt pistol and a close-combat weapon), but you could give the sergeant Terminator honours as "wargear", which gave him +1 Attack. In the current edition of the codex, sergeants essentially have Terminator honours as standard, so they have a base of two attacks each. And as has been said, if he has two close-combat weapons, he gets another attack on top of these, for three in all.

[gil galed]

true grit was available last edition which would have meant a base of two attacks... not any more :unsure:

[Lo0mis]

Awesome. Thanks for the clarification guys.

[Grimtooth]

true grit was available last edition which would have meant a base of two attacks... not any more :D

 

True Grit is still available: http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_Custom...5th_Edition.pdf

 

My 13th Co Grey Slayers have 2 attacks base and True Grit. So while I don't get the bonus for charging, I always get the bonus for having two close combat weapons;

 

2 base +1(True Grit) = 3 when charging

 

2 base +1(True Grit) = 3 when in close combat

 

2 base +1(Counter attack)+ 1(True Grit) = 4 when charged.

 

Gets better for Wolf Guard pack leaders when charged:

 

3 base + d3 (Mark of Wulfen) + 1 (True Grit) +1 (Counter Attack) +1 (Wolf Pelt) = 7-9 power weapon attacks when charged.

[Grey Mage]

Yes but its no longer available for codex marines because the trait system is gone.... they are only half as ferocious as us wolf-brother.

[Grimtooth]

Yes but its no longer available for codex marines because the trait system is gone.... they are only half as ferocious as us wolf-brother.

 

Half? You give them far too much credit my brother!