The Rise of the Mech list -

[waaanial00]

Just a thought however it might work. Have a mixed Landspeeder unit with 1 double Multi Melta and 2 double flamer. The Double Melta shoots first and destroys the transport and the double flamers shoot second and flame the occupants. I dont know if the shots are resolved at the same time though and therefore the occupants avoid the flames by being in the tank before it explodes. I dont know many units which can survive 4 templates at S5 or many transports which can survive 2 multi meltas.

 

Or a drop pod with Sternguard, half with Combi meltas, half with combi flamers. Once they hit the ground they should be able to pop and toast with half the combis and then move on the same the next turn.

 

Just some ideas

 

Wan

[Gornall]

Just a thought however it might work. Have a mixed Landspeeder unit with 1 double Multi Melta and 2 double flamer. The Double Melta shoots first and destroys the transport and the double flamers shoot second and flame the occupants. I dont know if the shots are resolved at the same time though and therefore the occupants avoid the flames by being in the tank before it explodes. I dont know many units which can survive 4 templates at S5 or many transports which can survive 2 multi meltas.

 

Or a drop pod with Sternguard, half with Combi meltas, half with combi flamers. Once they hit the ground they should be able to pop and toast with half the combis and then move on the same the next turn.

 

Just some ideas

 

Wan

 

All shots from the same unit are resolved at the same time. You could do it with 2 Landspeeder units, but not the same one.

[PotMs]

something ive used lately to take out armour early is a single droppod with a tac squad inside.. multimelta(incase they are alive turn two.. always nice to have that in their lines) meltagun and sarge with powerfist combi-melta.

 

ive even combat squaded them on landing and had the sarge nuked a dread and the meltagun nuke a predator.

 

its expensive, but it really is a gameplan gambit, that is the ball is very much in your court. if you have fast moving units to take advantage of the mess they cause it can turn games early. ive just finished making my 5 TH/SS termies to drop off the pods locator beacon later if its still there.

 

hope this helps

[foster]

I've never really had trouble with taking out armour early in my games with my 3 Attack Bike multi-melta squads, even when they get a few turns of shooting. That's because most of my army is behind three Baals predators (13 armour is really tough to break even with Lascannons) so I can weather most what my opponants can dish out.

 

Are you sure you want to do this, design a list to completly mess up your opponants game plan before the game actually starts. Sounds abit mean to me. But it doesn't matter because you just effectively just blown all Land Raider lists away so I congratulate you. I guess we'll be seeing alot of expensive vehicles being kept in reserve when scouts are about.

 

Anyway here's my two cents. Scout biker squad with plenty of grenades with a drop-podding Ironclad with as many anti-tank weapons you can give it:

 

Step 1. Bikes move toward target

 

Step 2. Drop-pod comes in and deploys Ironclad

 

Step 3. Ironclad fires meltas and/or HKMs, hopefully resulting in the transports destuction

 

Step 4. Scout bikers lay a grenade carpet on the infantry unit, drop-pod shoots to.

 

Optional Step 5. Scout bikers charge in to finish the unit off or stay out of range in hope you're far enough to avoid a counter charge.

 

Expensive but can be made cheaper by using a small scout biker unit and normal dreadnought for just over 200pts. Or you can add to this with a LSS with shotgun crew for those uber units you want taken out.

[Brother Tual]

Are you sure you want to do this, design a list to completly mess up your opponants game plan before the game actually starts. Sounds abit mean to me.

 

it is mean.. but its for tourney play and having six trukks on the table with nobs and mech boys with deffguns and boom wagons and nob bikers is a bit much without some sort of hamstring first turn... Every list I have played agains in 5th Ed. at tourney play bar one 180 ork boy list (1500 points) has had multiple transports with uber units or mass scoring unit rush (6 tactical squads with 6 rhinos and 2 x stern guard with razorbacks and pedro for a total of 14 scoring units...) and whilst I dont find the actual transport hard to destroy, the volume of them is hard to contain and the forced target selection really hurts when you are being pummelled by some cheap gun platform in the back field or hit in the flank by an untouched uber unit coming from a landraider or hard bike unit.. Eldar lists with serpents for every squad and two or three fire prisims with link fire options really starts to play a big part late game.. If I can destroy one element 'pre game' or early on with as little chance of counter then I can play more akin to my normal play style...

 

I just want the option and ability to do so... It doenst mean that I have to - bring a cheese list and then I break it before the game starts - or - play a fluff list and have a close game without playing on the edge - In all seriousness, it is scout based ATM and I think that its edge will be that people dont expect it..

 

Anyway here's my two cents. Scout biker squad with plenty of grenades with a drop-podding Ironclad with as many anti-tank weapons you can give it:

- I like it - I have been running ironclads in pods of late and they do well, but the lack of immediate support gives them a short life span or a 7 turn game in a tar pit... If I can 'shield them' with a combat (make the enemy go around or try for coversaves as bikes are bigger models) it might keep them going for a bit longer... Your two cents is worth at least a dollar my friend..

[Brother Tual]

well - I tried out some of the ideas in my last tourney (today and yesterday) with the following results-

 

Scout bikers = fail in the trapping department - simply not enough movement to surround a vehicle properly and not enough numbers to force the disappearance of the enemy - I forced one emergency disembarkation though with them.. perfect for popping a tank in the first instance though - I got a few transports and heavy tanks with them.. Almost useless against a non mech list (nids) though... (because the bikes hit soo early they get smashed big time - only 2 games did they live past turn one... and one of those was because I outflanked them!)

 

 

10 termies are insanely strong.. add in marneus and you have a unit that never dies.. I got one full en-trapment with them vs a deathwing list... yes.. I got a landraider AND a 5 man termy squad! glanced the thing to death and the unit inside could not get out as I surrounded the damn thing.. (I immobilised it in the first assault after it moved 12 inches) and then glanced every weapon off it in his turn and then in my turn I surrounded it and broke it well and truely but because I cant pen with 30 something PF attacks his unit was doomed as it HAS to get out and cant just sit in the middle of the wreck.. The thing took near 80 powerfist attacks (not hits) but for the return of 500 points and his last scoring unit in somewhat rapid order secured the game and gave me a very commanding victory (my termies got 2 x 5 man units and two landraiders in that game for one loss)

 

The second time I got a complete en-trapment was with scouts.. My opponent moved his 9 plague marines with fist and twin special weapons towards an objective (he moved the unit and then embarked and then moved 6' to make the range to capture but could still shoot) Shot down one of my LSS with the meltaguns... I lost one guy... My turn I moved my 4 scouts to the front and side of his rhino whilst my other LSS scout squad flew over the rhino and got out to the rear and other side.. the 9 scouts surrounded the tank.. 9 krak grenades resulted in 7 HITS!!! and with 3 pens and 2 glances I got a destroyed (but not explosion) and killed all 9 Plague Marines through the trapped rule and in the final turn on the objective and scored it for myself with my scouts! Got me the win and my opponent scored a frustrating lesson in never to under-estimate scouts! These scouts all get their power armour...

 

 

its very hard to do and but it is not expected by your opponent - but when you can get it off, it can be a serious and often vital blow to your enemy with the loss of a generally expensive AND scoring unit which is normally invulnerable to such a rapid form of death.. Even though I couldnt get it to work first turn like I had planned (I played 2 lists without transports of 5 games) I think that I did rather well with it and achieved some sort of goal in enacting a concise effort to trap units (though for some reason I picked the HARDER units to do it against) with outstanding results -

[foster]

You are so full of cheese I just can't stand it. Good job in destroying those hard targets by taking advantage of those emergancy disembarking rules as I know it's very difficult to pull off (Hadn't been able to pull it off ever). I'm now inspired to add some scouts in my lists to help take mech lists down a peg or two.

 

Another tactic for targeting transports is to take as many Hunter Killer Missiles on as many vehicles as you can fit in a list and use them as soon as possible. It's either going to moderate damage to your opponants or won't even shake a vehicle, it's just a one shot deal that is not garantied to do anything. At 10pts a pop it can get expensive but can be well worth it for the option to take a shot at anything that's out of range of your other weapons. Against non transport armies you can still target MC's or blanket a horde unit with frag templates.

 

Nowhere as good as scouts but it's a little something for lists with a ton of vehicles.

[DevianID]

Me and some friends have lamented the rise of Mech as the number 1 metagame for a while now... Simply put, armies that can take down vehicles better than others tend to do better in any tourney environment they enter.

 

For space marines, there are several anti tank options, but for the most part they dont quite fit a 'Water' approach that you seem to like Brother Tual. Marines do MUCH better in an 'Earth' style or thanks to Vulkan, a 'Fire' role, when it comes to vehicle popping.

 

What I mean is this... for heavy support, look at the combi-pred, with an autocannon and 2 las cannons. For the points, you get ~3 good shots (the 2 autocannon shots together average to be equal to one las cannon for the most part) This tank gives you 1 heavy shot at good range per 40 points spent. The range keeps the vehicle safe from assaults and meltas in the early game, thus multiples of this tank allow you to outlast your opponents. Then you have the multimelta attack bike. This is, of course, 1 heavy shot per 50 points, but the shot is better than anything else at 12 inches. However, at 12 inches you are open to very dangerous counterattacks, thus these best fit into Fire styles, where the bike attempt to dish damage out faster than the enemy can take. Double multimelta speeders can do this for 40 points per shot, but have a bit less speed. You can also try to use MMAB in a water role, dancing at 24 inches to minimize threats back to you, but the multimelta performs much better at short range, thus making water tactics with MMABs weaker than fire tactics.

 

Other units are the 5 man dev squad with 4 missiles for 150 when playing a footslogging force, these give you blast templates for horde and heavy shots at 37.5 per, but the heavy shots are not to the same quality as the combipred or MMAB... you get what you pay for basicly. The 5 man dev in cover make a decent earth unit, thanks to the pretty low cost and long range to keep them safe.

 

For troops, a tac squad with las cannon and rhino are very resiliant and double as scoring units, so are great earthy heavy weapons since you need SOMETHING for objectives, after all. A pedro list can make use of the strictly superior 5 man sternguard in rhino, at 190 they do most of what the tac squad does, only with double the shots... thus these are better anti tank units. You can also tool sternguard with obscene combimelta's, allowing sternguard to perform as excellent fire units. 10 stern with a fist in a pod, with 10 combi meltas that combat squad, are going to give you 2 very dead tanks, plus sternguard are still very good after the combimeltas are expended thanks to very cool ammo types.

 

Also, Pedro grants the very very good orbital bombardment, side armor 2d6 pick the highest, st10 AP1 with -1 pinning checks, no LOS needed.

 

As a final note, on how to deal with the squads inside after you bust open the transports... this can be tricky because the anwser is completely dependant on your play style. If you are still running a 'Water' like list, then look no further than 10 terminators wtih 2 cyclones, backed up by pedro. They have the bombardment shot from pedro, they have 4 blast templates for horde, 4 krak missiles for mech, and on the assault they get 40 powerfist attacks to crush anything not hiding in a vehicle.

 

'Fire' lists may like ironclads or other drop podded dreads with heavy flamers, redemeers, sternguard with tons of flamers, vindicators, ect.

 

'Earth' lists may like dakka preds, whirlwinds, 4 missile launcher devs, or just lots of bolter bodies for weight of fire to grind down footslogging troops.

 

Hope this helps!