Most effective way of thinning hordes?

[Brother Icipher]

Given the current popularity of Orks, and the expected upsurge in the use of IG, what do people see as being the best way to thin the vast number of models that these armies can field? Do you think its better to go for rate of fire (many shots) or blasts (templates)?

[greatcrusade08]

Probably heavy flamers, auto hits then its 2+ to wound IG, 3+ for orks... and it ignores cover and 4+ saves...

 

Best thing since sliced bread <_<

 

GC08

[jeffersonian000]

Weight of fire. The more saves rolled leads to more saves failed leads the more models removed.

 

SJ

[rockdeity]

WW's and dakka preds are cheap, but take up coveted heavy slots. all flavors of land speeder, especially the cyclone/HB varieties (these are especially nice because you can get up to 9 in fast slots which are often unused). Thunderfire Cannon *specializes* in anti-horde.

 

Melee specialists are another possibilitiy, by sweeping them you can do a lot more wounds than normal, but then you are at the mercy of counter shooting, so it's not the best game for C:SM to be playing.

 

Storm bolters are good at thinning hordes too, because you aren't penalized for the inevitable repositioning that you will be called upon to make.

 

Razorbacks are relatively cheap heavy bolters and a useful transport, so can't go wrong there.

[Ming]

As a player who fights the hordes seemingly without end - you cannot kill them fast enough. Your only good hope is to have units that have the sole purpose of countercharging. Think gunline, backed by Kantor and assault marines or vanguard or assault termies. Kantor needs to stay out of CC as long as possible, just to give every unit w/in 12 inches the extra +1A, and stubborn. Kantor is fragile, having only a 3+/4+ save and not immune to instant death. HTH against power claw'd orks or monstrous creatures will kill him outright. The benefits he yields - the +1A itself, is a huge force multiplier. Tacs and Devs and Strens can pound on the horde with firepower - and then accept and carry the assault from them. Muse that Kantor's CC ability is all about self defense, while he leads a stubborn, very strong, army.

 

As for the upcoming IG, every SME unit needs to make sure they have the ability to either shoot and destroy an AV13 armored vehicle, or destroy it in CC. I already have that covered in y typical list. Every squad possible has a PF or MBs on the sergeant, and PG/LC/PC/MM/MG in the tac squads. Hopefully enough firepower to kill tanks, just like we have to pop Kans or pop Carnifexi.

[Jackelope King]

For orks and nid hordes, I play these guys regularly. Position is everything. You're probably going to have a hard time killing the entire wave coming at you, but if you focus your fire on a single part of that wave, you can break it in that area. Playing the refused flank is key here. Make half of their models irrelevant by being on the far side of the board and then destroy the other half.

 

As for how to do it? Anything goes. I like to deploy a few units to kite early in the game, shooting and retreating slowly (Razorbacks with Heavy Bolters or Rhinos with two stormbolters do a great job at this) towards your firebase to peel away the screening units of gaunts that nids like and the throw-away unit that orks are fond of (often grots) to deny the more dangerous parts of the enemy force their 4+ cover save. Shoot, shoot, shoot. Deplete their numbers, and then you'll probably need to break them on the charge. It's doable, even without killer close combat units like Assault Terminators.

 

Against the Imperial Guard, I think you'll need to be the aggressive one. Drive across the board as fast as possible, popping smoke and then throwing your Rhinos away to screen your Marines, then charge everyone into close combat, where you'll clean house and where you can deny the weight of a million flashlights.

[kaiserstole20]

Lots of good advice here. For Orks and Nids (though not IG) they have trouble with AV14, so a Crusader or Redeemer can cause a lot of havoc.

[Perry T]

would a ten man squad of sternguard with 8 stormbolters, a power sword and 2 flamers in a drop pod be effective at cutting down hordes? turn one: drop in, shoot. turn 2: shoot and assault.

[waaanial00]

Have been thinking about those annoying Guard ever since a player at my local club decided to tell me his entire 2000 point list that he is going to make (essentially Line of grunts with penal troops in the front, Mortar teams behind them and then Grifon tanks behind that with the Psyker Teams in the rear). I am still thinking that dropping Dreads is going to be a good thing if you are going to get in close. Heavy Flamers on Ironclads is still going to be a good bet and the Assault Cannon and Storm Bolter is still going to be viable.

 

With the Guard you are going to be facing a large number of Melta Weapons as well as lots of other specials so dreads and the like are not going to last long but it should break lines of sight long enough and distract enough fire for you to be able to close in. The thing about the Guard is that their LD is shocking and therefore forcing LD checks is going to almost certainly mean that they run away. Oh and force the unit with a Commisar to fail a morale check through firing, he will execute the unit with the highest LD in the squad then charge in kill him and the unit will flee almost certainly :P

 

Against Orks slowing the hoard is the key. Thunderfires do this really well by using subterrain rounds and generally do a lot of damage as well being that they are 4 templates. As stated above they have issues with AV14 but then the only viable hoard killer at this armour level is the Crusader (Redeemer being quite good but POTMS only allows one extra weapons to be fired so you lose out on the Assault Cannons or a Flame Storm). Aim for their Transports and large units first.

 

Oh and Perry T, I find that putting Storm Bolters on Sternguard is a bit of a waste of their lovely rounds. You are making them 30 points each and you are dropping the ability to wound guardsmen on 2+ or avoid cover for the ability to charge and attack with 3 attacks. Personally I prefer to get within 12" asap and let rip with either Dragonfire or Hellfire. If you are going after hoard you do not need a power weapon.

[rockdeity]

if you're gonna put storm bolters on your stern, you might as well do grey knights. 1 pt more expensive, I think (must pay for PW for justicar too, but it's a relic blade!), but lots of goodies. Only definite downside is 1 less attack than stern on the charge, but same after that, and S6 counteracts that loss of attack statistically against MeQ. You can instakill guard heroes too, hehe.