Venerable Rhadamanthus Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 I dont think they should be allowed to have the heroic intervention special ability. Why? Because demons, who do this alot more and who specialize in teleport attacks cant do it at all. I think it rather odd they gave vangaurd this ability. It shouldnt spread farther. Heroic Intervention reads: "... are famed for arriving at a time and place where their onslaught can make the most difference to a battle." And you don't think GK's wouldn't know how to do this? Those who are supposed to surpass Marines in skill and ability? (C:DH quote) Also, just to clarify..Daemons don't really Deep Strike in. The DS rule is just used as the game mechanic to represent the arrival of the Daemons as they shimmer into existence or are summoned from the Warp. "Daemons do not go to war in the same way as mortal, rather, guided by the capricious will of their Dark Gods, they appear out of thin air, reality screaming as it is torn apart by the baleful energies of the Warp" (quoted from C:CD as it describes Daemonic Assault) If anyone "specializes in teleport attacks" it is GK's as per their fluff. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165923-updating-gk-fast-attack/page/3/#findComment-1960962 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prathios Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 Well just a thought since we are talking about FA and scattering from deep strike... we need advanced coms. How about those lovely games where your knights dont even show up till turn five, or your assassin decides she never wants to show. Being able to re-roll reserves without allying in IG would be nice... And I would think its a no-brainer to add this to our vehicle armory. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165923-updating-gk-fast-attack/page/3/#findComment-1961328 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venerable Rhadamanthus Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 Well just a thought since we are talking about FA and scattering from deep strike... we need advanced coms. How about those lovely games where your knights don't even show up till turn five, or your assassin decides she never wants to show. Being able to re-roll reserves without allying in IG would be nice... And I would think its a no-brainer to add this to our vehicle armory. Is it re-roll all reserves...just one unit per turn? While I don't have the IG book to look up advanced coms...I get the general idea. And I can see your point. The GK's are an elite army with only a few units compared to others...and having them sit in reserves till turn 5 can really suck! (fortunately we don't have to worry about them never arriving in 5th ed like we used to...they auto arrive on turn 5 now) Especially if you are gonna use the PS like we are trying to design them... I'm not opposed to some sort of reserve re-roll, though I believe Aidoneus's rule for Teleport Assault does go quite a ways to relieve this. Teleport Assault: (added according to post #98)At the beginning of your first turn, you must choose half of your deep-striking Grey Knights squads (rounding up) to make a 'Teleport Assault.'. Units making a teleport assault arrive on the player's first turn. The arrival of the remaining units is rolled for as normal. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165923-updating-gk-fast-attack/page/3/#findComment-1961417 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prathios Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 Well just a thought since we are talking about FA and scattering from deep strike... we need advanced coms. How about those lovely games where your knights don't even show up till turn five, or your assassin decides she never wants to show. Being able to re-roll reserves without allying in IG would be nice... And I would think its a no-brainer to add this to our vehicle armory. Is it re-roll all reserves...just one unit per turn? While I don't have the IG book to look up advanced coms...I get the general idea. And I can see your point. The GK's are an elite army with only a few units compared to others...and having them sit in reserves till turn 5 can really suck! (fortunately we don't have to worry about them never arriving in 5th ed like we used to...they auto arrive on turn 5 now) Especially if you are gonna use the PS like we are trying to design them... I'm not opposed to some sort of reserve re-roll, though I believe Aidoneus's rule for Teleport Assault does go quite a ways to relieve this. Teleport Assault: (added according to post #98)At the beginning of your first turn, you must choose half of your deep-striking Grey Knights squads (rounding up) to make a 'Teleport Assault.'. Units making a teleport assault arrive on the player's first turn. The arrival of the remaining units is rolled for as normal. True, it does go a long way to relieving that, unless of course you don't want all your stuff coming down on turn one. If you went first on turn one in a Dawn of War scenario and you did teleport assault and your opponent hasn't even brought his stuff onto the board yet you're a sitting duck when he brings all his vehicles and heavy support in on his turn and rips your teleported units to shreds(granted you stand a good chance of killing his HQ and two troops during your assault). Its a very small thing just to allow us to take advanced coms as a vehicle upgrade just like the IG. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165923-updating-gk-fast-attack/page/3/#findComment-1961544 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venerable Rhadamanthus Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 True, it does go a long way to relieving that, unless of course you don't want all your stuff coming down on turn one. If you went first on turn one in a Dawn of War scenario and you did teleport assault and your opponent hasn't even brought his stuff onto the board yet you're a sitting duck when he brings all his vehicles and heavy support in on his turn and rips your teleported units to shreds(granted you stand a good chance of killing his HQ and two troops during your assault). Its a very small thing just to allow us to take advanced coms as a vehicle upgrade just like the IG. Unfortunately, if you use this list..you "have" to bring in units on turn one. Similar to the SM Drop Pod Assault. So you would be stuck with your scenario. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165923-updating-gk-fast-attack/page/3/#findComment-1961728 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prathios Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 True, it does go a long way to relieving that, unless of course you don't want all your stuff coming down on turn one. If you went first on turn one in a Dawn of War scenario and you did teleport assault and your opponent hasn't even brought his stuff onto the board yet you're a sitting duck when he brings all his vehicles and heavy support in on his turn and rips your teleported units to shreds(granted you stand a good chance of killing his HQ and two troops during your assault). Its a very small thing just to allow us to take advanced coms as a vehicle upgrade just like the IG. Unfortunately, if you use this list..you "have" to bring in units on turn one. Similar to the SM Drop Pod Assault. So you would be stuck with your scenario. Exactly, so everyone should understand that with the teleport assault rule there is a roughly 25% chance you could get totally screwed if you both go first and get a dawn of war deployment. So 25% percent of the time prepare to deploy those teleporty guys right in the middle of your side of the table so you don't get ripped apart on the following turn. I think this scenario requires a bit of thought, don't you think? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165923-updating-gk-fast-attack/page/3/#findComment-1961809 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ominous Anonymous Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 Here's my updated proposal. Anything about it you'd like changed? Are there still other unit options you think we should consider? Or is this satisfactory? Unit: Purgation Squad Changes: unit size changed to Justicar + 4-9 Grey Knights Special Rules: The unit Must choose ONE of the following... -When teleporting in, the unit may re-roll the scatter and distance dice exactly like with a twin-linked blast weapon. They must accept the new results, even if they are worse! -free -The squad has the psychic power Gate of Infinity. The entire squad counts as casting the power, exactly like Holocaust in a grey knight terminator squad. If more than one member of the squad is alive when this power is used, they are subject to taking wounds as described in the power. -35pts -The squad has the Heroic Intervention special rule. This ability may not be used during the first game turn. -25pts I'd keep the first ability as standard and for free (since they can't capture objectives and have to pay extra for the Special Weapons) and keep the abilities at the stated cost. Everything looks perfect otherwise. :P EDIT: OH jeez orange on gray kills the eyes. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165923-updating-gk-fast-attack/page/3/#findComment-1963285 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidoneus Posted April 23, 2009 Author Share Posted April 23, 2009 Okay, after considering how dangerous Gate of Infinity is (even with our change of squad-based perils), I think I'll lower that to 25pts. After looking more at Vanguard Vets (who, keep in mind, are a LOT less frightening to get charged by than grey knights), and considering the difficulties of using HI with our Teleport Assault rule, I'm going with 15pts. I'm also going to charge 10pts for the re-roll ability, as it can be very powerful with 4 incinerators. And finally, since we're now charging for every option, the squad won't be required to take any of them, but of course will still be limited to taking at most 1. For advanced comms and discussions of Teleport Assault, we should move those conversations back over to the main thread, as they don't really have anything to do with Fast Attack. And with that, I'd say we're done here. Of course we still need lots of playtesting, and we can still discuss pricing etc, but that can all be done within the original thread. Good work guys! I'm very happy with what we accomplished here, and I think it's an excellent addition to the main project! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165923-updating-gk-fast-attack/page/3/#findComment-1965350 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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