What scares you most!

[Smurfalypse]

So basically this is what it says it is. Wanted to hear now that the codex is pretty much out and alot of people have seen and read through the promo copies at stores, what they thought and what might give them troubles, this also includes basic tactics and what might work best or worst vs our new opponent.

 

There were a few things that made me a sad panda. I will list them in order.

 

1/ Veterans...Im not going to like these guys one bit, i already know it. Very versitile, lots of options, can take demo charge, along with some other nifty things, pair this with a brutal skimming transport, scoring, a basic low cost and no one is going to enjoy this unit one bit.

 

2/ Gashound...Yes one of the two new hellhounds. This one is a defensive weapon that wounds on a 2+ and is AP3, yes a sad panda indeed. It is only a template weapon and doesnt get the ranged template so its not awful, but it is fast so can move 12 and still lay that thing down on a unit. Add another weapon to it and it can move and fire both. Unhappy indeed.

 

3/ Valkyrie...Right, this is probably going to be one of the top three transports in the game. Good armor for a transport, fast, skimmer, can deepstrike, allow the unit inside to jump out when it flat out moves, ect ect...Not much of a downside to this cept for the fact it will probably cost 50.00 per. You can also upgrade them to have 3 twin linked lascannons for all of your anti vehicle unhappyness.

 

So some tactics and ideas vs guard im a little lacking on right now but i had a few ideas. The guard now have so much template that infantry based armies are probably going to get wacked hard and fast, they also have a good amount of anti vehicle stuff within their dex to choose from. A chaos armies only hope i think is to literally use the cover best you can to help take the edge off the templates, get in their face as fast as you can(liking possessed/chosen in a rhino more and more), speed and mobility are going to be key vs guard you just arnt going to win a shooty battle vs them.

 

Pipe in all ya want, im going to be seeing alot of the guard and am interested in different things to try vs them

[Nehekhare]

Leman Russ w/5 Plasma Cannons.

3 Medusae per HS slot.

[chillin]

I'm just glad the IG will (hopefully) get a dex that makes them competitive.

[Dràyhèn]

I've never played against that 'normal' IG list, so I don't know how :cussty they're, but that full-drop/inf IG list was already enough for me. Heck, what could you do when you faced smth like seven drops (armed with melta/plasma death), three basilisk, infiltrating missiles/lascs and then some wide gunline with more missiles/autocannons. I've had hard time surviving from those drops and basilisks, even when I've been advancing in cover.

 

But aside from that, the new dex looks quite interesting and competitive. Though I don't like a bit how devastating they look right now. Not a match for Chaos, but the firepower that they can lay down looks...impressing.

[Spacefrisian]

I think you need to figure out a way how to get as many as possible of youre units with them in close combat. I doubt al their new shiny toys they get would be of much use in that situation.

[Smurfalypse]

So a friend just sent me his list he wants to play against me with and im staring at x3 demolishers :*( Not sure i can handle all three before he blasts a whole in my army. Its a 1500pt game and im bringing my 10 possessed, some daemons, greater daemon, pile of marines, and a few terms with a term lord. One thing about the new guard is they are immediately intimidating. When the marine dex came out i wasnt intimidated at all, i was more envious at some of the shiny they had but far far from intimidated. Literally i see this stuff and its very daunting to say the least, i hope it was their intent to make the dex have that feel to it.

[Drudge Dreadnought]

I'm thinking everyone is going to have to add a lot more ranged AT firepower now to keep all those tanks silenced.

[Citizen Snips]

All the guard codex means for CSM is that I need to bring more obliterators and more Tzeentch princes. Time to go tank hunting.

[Mutt-Man!]

All I can say is take lots of marines with icons of tzeentch. I mean take full squads of 20. I've been preparing for this for weeks now. (Because I've known all along muahahaha)

 

What am I scared of? Nothing. We got krak grenades on every marine and no vehicle is safe from them, and we get to assault multiple vehicles due to their vehicle squadron rules on every tank except chimeras and that one shot 8"-12" blast missile tank.(s10ap1 blast mind you!!!)

 

Melee vs tanks=always hits rear armor. (its in the rules, forgot the page, melee vs vehicles)

Krak grenades at most an AV11 rear on 3 of the 8 different leman russes. (all russes are 150+ pts, so 9 would be 1350 minimum no sponson upgrades)

Having 80+ marines in 2k all with 5++ saves or even line them up so that scatters give 4+ cover saves to the ones behind them. So you can run anything as long as you do what orks do with grots, line INV saves in front of your models.

 

The cheapest pie plate vehicles dont ignore 3+ armor saves, unless its a basilisk and that comes *with* its +25 point upgrade, and they come open topped with av12 front armor. Not easy but not hard, plus the factor of hitting multiple tanks with their squadron vehicle rules. So being with 3x oblits could take down all three basilisks.

 

Also, if you deep strike close, pie plates scatter up to 2D6-BS, and they dont like to scatter when their tanks are nearby. You can debase an IG army easily, and tie/rip them apart in melee even easier.

 

 

What do I fear the most, the utmost?

This: (One troop choice)

Command: 4 plasma guns, plasma pistol on lieutennant (He has higher BS)

5x10 units of infantry, plasma gun and lascannon

5x6 units of heavy weapons teams with three lascannons each

2x5 units of special weapons teams with three plasma guns each

This is one troop choice, not even maxxed out (they can come with 50 conscripts too)

This entire thing costs: 1185 points total.

One troop: 21 lascannons, 15 plasma guns, and some units lasguns can fire 3 times at 12" or 2 times at 24".

You heard me right, weapns teams are now troops choices after the 1 command and mandatory 2-5 infantry units, you can use 7 teams 5 being heavy, 2 being special.

 

Imagine trying to get rid of that, while taking all that firepower. You can instant death the weapons teams now, so AUTOCANNONS are wonderful now...... Even plasma cannons if you can hit two or more. that's a must vs weapon team heavy armies.

 

 

Other then that, I fear that damn huge blast missile that can potentially be 12" wide. (scatter, D3"+3" blast radius, indirectly shot, infinate range, reserves roll style rule to be able to shoot it, cannot suffer a weapon destroyed) It is..... godly. 10/1 stats.. It can wipe all things off the table, you see one you BETTER stay inside your rhinos! (half str if hitting a vehicle without the hole over it)

 

They have lots of anti cover AP3 ord as well, so inv saves are the only surefire way to go. Icon/elites with inv saves, sons, HQ's etc...

[Zhukov]

Well about that huge S10 Ap 1 missile: its counts as S10 even if the hole is not on the vehicle and you cannot claim cover saves against the thing. So yes it looks scary but its costs 160 points and is AV12 opentopped. Just take it out as soon as possible.

 

Well I'm looking forward to the new guard codex (hence my 8th cadian new army) because they are better now.

 

Biggest pro: chimera for 55 points. Madness. AV12 on the front and 2 heavy weapons on it. 12 models tranposrt capicity and 5 models shooting out of it?? yes please.

Basic infantry cost lowered and weapon costs too coupled with the chimera makes this codex already viable again.

 

Not to sure about the valkary, its just armour 12 you know, hard to claim cover saves with it if not going flat out. In a word it are not eldar skimmers. They just go down pretty quick I suppose.

 

I am very excited about the leman russes now. I equip mine with lasscanon and battle canon only. So moving 6 inch and still firing both looks nice and pretty dangerous for chaos players.

 

Overview: guard is getting mobile, more vehicles if wanted and still an awfull lot of pie plates possible.

 

I think chaos might trouble against some guard builds if I look at the competative chaos builds right now. If taken a lot of autocanons in the normal/vet squad (like I probably will) they can take out our rhinos pretty quick. Deamon princes should go down pretty quick to against the chimera firing (3 S6 and 3 S5 shots each, probably 4-6 chimeras in 1750)

And then we have the pie plates too.

 

All in all the new guard codex doesnt look cheese but it can be powerfull against some tournement chaos builds.

[Sons of Horus]

good thing i'm playing WE then :P rear armour :confused: besides just tie them up in CC and they can't shoot you with their guns :P and you can always RAM them with your LR :lol:

[Gaz1858]

Im really looking forward to playing against IG army. Should be totally different to the usual marine armies in my gaming group.

 

Main fear would be number of saves id have to take from weight of fire.

 

Still, their main weakness will be what it always was. Close combat. Getting in there with even Tactical squads should tie up their guns and provide relative safety. Rumoured their stormtroopers now have two cc weapons and a hellgun though so keep a watch from a counter charging unit of them.

[tastytaste]

I fear the Hellhounds with Chem always wounds on a 2+ ap 3?!!?!!? I really think though that the squadron thing is a blessing means on 4 on the chart and they die so 6 on a glance kills a tank got to love that. You can only take so many tanks at their cost. A smart IG player will go for cheap and lots of it nothing does better in this game them spam and lots of it be it in CC or shooting.

[Zhukov]

O yeah forgot: a nice thing is that a vet squad of them can purchase stealth (+1 cover save) and defensive grenades for only 30 points. Couple that with a power fist which costs 15 points and a small squad of csm left wont even make it in assault! Well time will tell how good they will be.

[Drudge Dreadnought]

The main thing to take into account with this codex is that it has a lot of specialist options. It will be able to build lists that counter certain armies extremely effectively, but they will lose to another race. A proper all comers IG list will probably not be particularly unbalanced vs anybody else's all comers list.

[Sons of Horus]

O yeah forgot: a nice thing is that a vet squad of them can purchase stealth (+1 cover save) and defensive grenades for only 30 points. Couple that with a power fist which costs 15 points and a small squad of csm left wont even make it in assault! Well time will tell how good they will be.

 

that's why we have zerkers :lol:

[Smurfalypse]

Yeah the death strike missile is definitely going to be one of those epic moment rolls each turn. Probably one of the more "fun" things ive seen in any codex, cept for possessed :lol:

 

Melee is all well and good, but you still have to cross the map against a withering hail of fire of all kinds. Templates that are ap3, no cover, ordanance, piles of autocannons, piles of H.Bolters, ap3 lasguns w/first rank fire! second rank fire!, deepstriking demo charges, alot of speed (this by far the biggest upgrade to guard), and alot of hard vehicles.

 

All of that would make things like chosen a little more viable as you can come in on a flank and assualt if close enough, or unload from a rhino and use four melta-guns to wipe out a russ squadron. In all reality though i dont think to many people are all of that fond of chosen and even if you use them, it would just be for armies like this and they would be subpar vs other forces you faced.

 

Lash isnt gonna do you a whole lot of good. If you assualt and wipe a unit you are a sitting duck the next turn as a template is gonna just end that hurrah. Deep striking oblits can take a toll on the heavy vehicles i think, but again you still have to outlast that firepower they bring to the table.

 

I think my current types of lists are just going to get swallowed. I usually throw as many possessed and basic CSMs at someone and hope i can pull out a win :P Sometimes i do a three deadnought list with nothing else starting on the board. Both of these however are going to suffer awfuly so maybe im a little more fearfull than most.

[Corpse.]

I have been fighting the new IG for almost 2 weeks now. The biggest thing about tank squadrons is that you can assault two-three vehicles if you can manage to reach both. Slap them with krak grenades (always hits rear armor) while most of the time they have remained still. Its simple, just roll 4, 5 or 6 and each marine does something to a guard tank. 5 or 6 for 3 different leman russes with 11 rears.

 

10 kraks, 5 results, 3 average being penetrations, and since modifiers only apply to shooting attacks (like ap-) then your unmodified results is at the very least, 1 vehicle destroyed. Killing one vehicle that has AP3 plates on average costs as much as 10 marines or more.

 

Imagine adding 2 meltas, a powerfist and a 5+ inv save to the whole unit of 20 possible guys. It's what I use and I rarely lose to the new IG, for about 10 games now they have been unsuccessful in pulling any good victory without using their aircraft.

 

I dislike the idea of having 55 point twin heavy flamer chimeras with 5 men firing out of it. That leaves a bad taste in my mouth when 3 heavy flamers and a batch of regular flamers eat through my men, all coming from one troop choice.

 

Edit: Oh and dont forget, read page 64: Vehicle Squadrons. Immobilised vehicles are destroyed in Vehicle squads. And hitting all three of the tank squad with strength 5 berzerkers at 4 attacks each makes it very nasty.

[Dràyhèn]

If you ever manage to get those 'zerkers into their destination, with rhinos, then I must applaud you. Looking at the firepower they can now lay down on us, I'd say it looks pretty bad for rhinos. In LR, it's completely another matter.

I think we need to rely on oblits, termies and chosen to get those tanks down, as always.

'Zerkers fit better into that brutal & bloody close-quarter slaughtering, where they outshine everyone else.

Lol, tank-hunting 'zerks, chaotic..

[Redbaron997]

Lol, tank-hunting 'zerks, chaotic..

 

Well yes...yes it is chaotic... :P

[Night Stalker]

It's not so hard to hit their lines, if they remain static.

[the jeske]

yeah , but a normal IG army now will gain one turn from counter units [canones for example+those uber cheap mini tank bombs] , half a turn of valkyr of fury +moving back and considering that it takes around 2 turns to get to them its not so easy anymore . at least not as easy as it used to be.

[Smurfalypse]

They definitely did gain some mobility, mostly in the big tank department. Hitting their lines would be a little more time consuming than it used to be, though flanking/scouting would still be very very useful vs them.

[bobte11th5]

hmm, was talking to the gw staff at my local today, and its not so much the tanks im worried about, its the new infantry. While your idea to run at the tanks and then kill them in cc is sound, there is the infantry to get past first. with the guy there we worked out an imp army can have one troop choice of 129 models, costing somewhere betwee 600-700 points. thats not terrible, but then they have the combat squad rule, meaning that all of them can be deployed as one unit apparently, so the guy was saying that he would just line them up in fron of his tanks, target transports first so everyone had to footslog, and tie any survivors up in cc with your imps, yes they will be outclassed, yes they will be outsklled, but chances are you won be able to kill them all... oh, and commissars make them ld 10 and medics give the unit FNP, so thats 129 models at ld 10 with a commissar and have FNP, they will do the job methinks

[Drudge Dreadnought]

Only basic infantry squads can combine, so that 50 guys max. They cannot merge with the command squad, and only the command squads have medics. But yes comissars giving them Stubborn will be very, very annoying and is borderline unfluffy imo.