Prot Posted April 18, 2009 Share Posted April 18, 2009 As someone who has a massive Steel Legion army, and a player of Chaos, I have a few thoughts for you guys to chew on. First of all the ability to combine a unit into one large one is very overrated. This means that a mish/mash of heavy weapons, special weapons, and HQ units will have to all target one unit. Ouch. That really sucks. Not only that but get some Raptors in there, or Berzerkers in close combat, and voila, you just effectively tied up a truck load of models that now can't shoot!!! At first the IG side of me was quite excited at the prospect of Russ squads, BUT think again. This means they too must all target the same unit in shooting. Not only that, but a squad of Oblits can now effectively wipe out multiple vehicles in one shooting phase because they are targetted as a squad I think. Further to that, look up your vehicle squad rules... that means you get a vehicle immobilized result, that tank is now gone until it is no longer the member of a squad! So those are mixed blessings. I still think loyalists have access to flank, and we have some limited ways of getting into IG too. I mean really some units the IG have are just not that great. The new Stormtroopers are quite overpriced... and almost useless against Orks, making them far too specialized and pricey for IG. Vets are probably a bigger threat to Chaos. The Valkyrie is an expensive Chimera that moves faster. It's armament is very similar, and it's considerably more points. I really don't see them as a big threat to Chaos, however, they will be a serious contender for snatching, or contesting objectives on the bottom half of a turn. The greatest thing I see IG have on Chaos is Orders. These are good, very good. The base infantry will be a big list if people can afford it. As well as the opposite: Pure mech. I still think deep striking oblits are a massive threat. I wish chaos had real drop pods because it's a huge way of displacing a guard army, and with proper planning you should be into an IG army in turn 2-3 and that's where things ALWAYS get ugly for IG. They have some very strong units, but the point pricing is through the roof. If you are fighting an 'elite' heavy IG list, chances are he has a very small model count anyway. Chaos will fair well I believe... the old safeguards; Lashwhip, Oblits, close combat, etc. are all still very viable, however, vehicles are probably getting smoked off the table. I believe horde style armies have far more to fear than Chaos. Just my two cents for now. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165993-what-scares-you-most/page/2/#findComment-1959396 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Lord Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 Valkyrie might be fragile and more lightly armed, but the Vendetta class gunship is very, very nasty. 130 pts for a transport with 3 twin linked lascannons. And you can have 3 in a single FA choice. 9 Twin-linked lascannons is going to turn almost any vehicle into fragments very fast. 10 pt upgrade gives the gunship two heavy bolter sponsons. Leman Russ Executioner: Str 7 AP 2 Heavy 3 Blast for main weapon. Upgrade with plasma cannons and you have a marine killer. Storm troopers- AP 3 hot-shot lasgun. (only 18" rapid fire though) Colossus: Str 6 AP 3 Large Blast. and many more. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165993-what-scares-you-most/page/2/#findComment-1961653 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spacefrisian Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 I guess the new IG codex gives a reason to take some PA Chosen and or Raptors in youre lists. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165993-what-scares-you-most/page/2/#findComment-1962520 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night Stalker Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 I wonder who the hell wrote the list and make power fist 15 points upgrade and power weapon 10 point upgrade. I dont want to insult him, but nobody but fluff players will take power weapons :/ they should stay at 20 for fist and 5 for power weapon. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165993-what-scares-you-most/page/2/#findComment-1962535 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dràyhèn Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 I guess the new IG codex gives a reason to take some PA Chosen and or Raptors in youre lists. No it won't. Explain me, why should I take chosen or raptors over termies? They all do the same job. Well, maybe raptors move a bit faster and have a lil bit more maneouvrability (damn spelling), but that's it. Termies hit harder and take more barrage. Sure they are fluffy and fun to play, but face it. :lol: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165993-what-scares-you-most/page/2/#findComment-1962869 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spacefrisian Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 Chosen > Infiltrate > outflank. Getting a melta at the rear/side makes quick work of those Leman Russes. And if they want to prevent you from getting to that side they are most likely to be centered in the middle, making you able to blast them with templates. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165993-what-scares-you-most/page/2/#findComment-1963000 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muskie Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 I like outflanking chosen. But IG can outflank and scout a pile with hordes o' sentiniles. I can't remember the exact rule but basically you outflank then an IG or War Walkers outflanks right behind you, bye bye chosen... I think some of the new vehicle rules are too much, but they are designed to sell models not, balance out tournaments. I think the IG always could do a lot, now they can do more. BoLS has a bunch of threads on the IG lately... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165993-what-scares-you-most/page/2/#findComment-1963348 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Lord Posted April 25, 2009 Share Posted April 25, 2009 Remember that in 5th ed, power fists, like lightning claws, but unlike power weapons, don't grant +1 attack unless you have 2 of them. In 4th ed, they did. So, it does make more sense. Even with the lack of AP, the Punish gatling gun is a very, very good weapon, even against marines. I did the calculation, and on average, a single round of shooting from it kills as many basic marines as 1 round of shooting from 3 twin linked, BS 4 lascannons. (the Terminus Ultra's main gun array) 9 Punisher guns, 20 shots each (180 shots total), 1/2 hit, 2/3 wound, 1/3 of wounds kill- 20 dead marines 9 TL BS 4 lascannons- 27 shots 8/9 hit, 5/6 wound, no saves- 20 dead marines (these are averages) Against daemons, thanks to their invulnerable save, the punisher also excels. A dedicated daemon killing weapon array (say, 2 twin linked, BS 4 psycannons) kills same number. 9 pairs of BS 4 psycannons- 54 shots, 8/9 hit, 5/6 wound- 40 dead daemons 9 Punishers: 180 shots, 1/2 hit, 2/3 wound, 2/3 of wounds kill- 40 dead daemons That is one good gun. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165993-what-scares-you-most/page/2/#findComment-1966987 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterOfDisaster Posted April 26, 2009 Share Posted April 26, 2009 Definately going to have to take some more oblits... they really do patch a hole where your army needs it most. they can take more guardsman now, so i'm thinking lots of berzerkers... now i'm gonna have to go pick up 20 more today... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165993-what-scares-you-most/page/2/#findComment-1967511 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azulz Posted September 1, 2009 Share Posted September 1, 2009 Ok they can cram the board with a single troop selection and my main prob is the basilisks and command squad thing that launchs ordnance from off board and screws with my reserve rolls. How have people been dealing with the new codex for IG? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165993-what-scares-you-most/page/2/#findComment-2096690 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drudge Dreadnought Posted September 1, 2009 Share Posted September 1, 2009 Can you give us some more info on your lists, their list, tactics, and point size? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165993-what-scares-you-most/page/2/#findComment-2096691 Share on other sites More sharing options...
travh20 Posted September 1, 2009 Share Posted September 1, 2009 Can someone explain to me how the deathstrike missile could potentially be a 12" blast? I see d3 + 3 as a max of 6". I am asking so I know how to spread my CSM out when advancing against it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165993-what-scares-you-most/page/2/#findComment-2097130 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mutt-Man! Posted September 1, 2009 Share Posted September 1, 2009 Center point where the shot scatters, then measure D3+3" radius... Thats a radius, not a blast template of 6" size, its 6" from the middle where its like a map circle tool measured from the center. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165993-what-scares-you-most/page/2/#findComment-2097173 Share on other sites More sharing options...
travh20 Posted September 1, 2009 Share Posted September 1, 2009 Oh I see, thanks man. That could be lethal. At a minimum a 8" blast! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165993-what-scares-you-most/page/2/#findComment-2097267 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeller Posted September 1, 2009 Share Posted September 1, 2009 So, gentlmen, tell me how the Defiler fits into all this? This thread has given me reason to field 30 terminators. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165993-what-scares-you-most/page/2/#findComment-2097271 Share on other sites More sharing options...
travh20 Posted September 1, 2009 Share Posted September 1, 2009 The defiler would get shot down turn one by a barrage of lascannons and the Bring it Down! order. Either that or a Leman Russ Vanqisher. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165993-what-scares-you-most/page/2/#findComment-2097305 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spacefrisian Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 Altough i used Spacewolves this can be aplied to Chaos as well. Rhinos and Landraiders All you need to know. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165993-what-scares-you-most/page/2/#findComment-2098050 Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 So, gentlmen, tell me how the Defiler fits into all this The bad news is that the average IG army is probably going to stack LasCannons (I know I would/will) and those are tailor made for knocking down walkers. The good news is that if you can get a Defiler into HtH, it should be able to kill things freely with little worry about hidden Power Fists or Krak Grenades. It will also tear apart any tank it runs up against. This thread has given me reason to field 30 terminators. Oddly enough I have the opposite reaction, I'd field more MEQs because I'm sure that they're going to be bringing the LasCannons, Plasma, Melta, and Demolishers that all ignore my 2+ save anyway, so I might as well have more bodies on the table. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165993-what-scares-you-most/page/2/#findComment-2098124 Share on other sites More sharing options...
incinerator950 Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 Creed Scouting a Warhound is possible, right? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165993-what-scares-you-most/page/2/#findComment-2098138 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primarch Naogedd Posted September 3, 2009 Share Posted September 3, 2009 Oh gods... imagine Scouting a Castigator in Apoc. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165993-what-scares-you-most/page/2/#findComment-2098831 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Important Posted September 3, 2009 Share Posted September 3, 2009 My main strategy so far is some oblits (not 9 ass holes!) and lesser daemons. It makes a mess of thier army, if you are using lash sorcs / DP's it should be even easier tried with one lash sorc killed his command squad thanks to it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/165993-what-scares-you-most/page/2/#findComment-2098862 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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