anyone know necrons

[greatcrusade08]

Hey guys..

 

As most of you probably know the last few weeks i have been writing up a series of scout tacticas. These are basic articles writen as guides to people who run scout armies.

My aim is to make scout armies as strong as possible with army compostion and basic tactics for fighting certain opponents.

And although i know scouts are not a truely competative army, any advice we can give is better than none! and im sure we can help them in a friendly LGC environment.

 

With that out of the way, ill get down to the point of this thread....

 

Basically i am writing an article for each army, i have done five so far: Space marines, Tyranids, Tau, Deamonhunters and daemons.

Im now ready to go onto necrons, but i have a problem... i know nothing about them!!! :lol:

 

Having never faced them or read any of thier rule books since thier first release a few years back i can honestly say i am the least qualified person to talk about cron tactics.

So i am looking for a keen volunteer/s to help me write my article, i need as much info on necron weaknesses and tactics as possible, perhaps some general marine tactics that i can 'translate' into scout tactics would work..

 

At this point ill take all the help i can get

 

Thanks

GC08

[Castus Xanthis]

I could help. I fight them on a weekly basis.

 

For scouts:

 

Sniper rifles are your friend. Use them to eliminate Tomb Spyders Destroyers, Heavy Destroyers and Lords with Destroyer bodies and to annoy C'tan if no other targets present themselves. Massed bolter fire is ineffective against necrons so engage them in close with pistols and ccws. The key is to hit them hard and sweeping advance them so that they cannot get Will Be Back rolls. WBB rolls are a 4+ and may not be attempted if there is no friendly necron model of the same type within 6" (the 6" rule) or if a tomb spyder is within 12" and a friendly necron model of the same type is on the table. Weapons that ignore armor saves in close combat, weapons that cause instant death and AP 1 or 2 weapons disallow WBB rolls. Krak missiles are useful for hitting the Lord but they are typically wasted since necrons don't have any light or medium vehicles. Go for phase out which means destroying just more than 75% of his necron models do not go after monoliths or either of the C'tan since they don't count for phase out and are virtually indestructible. Monoliths disallow the bonuses for chainfists, melta weapons and rending so don't even try (Discuss meltabombs with your opponent before the game starts). They also teleport units of necrons from anywhere on the table (even out of combat) and allow rerolls for WBB. C`tan all have a 4+ invul save and are T:8 Monstrous Creatures that ignore every save. Stay far away from the Deciever unless you have Sicarius in the force since he can force you to take a leadership test or flee. The Nightbringer isn't as bad, he only has a relatively short ranged shooting attack in addition to his ridiculous number of attacks. The Lord can also have the Veil of Darkness which allows him to leave the table with or without a unit and to reenter by deep strike. This is usually used to teleport a number of immortals behind your forces to wipe out your support troops (Thunderfires, Predators, Vindicators, Devastators, etc. . .). The necrons also have access to some rarely used wargear that allows them to either eliminate night fighting on their turn or to plunge your turn into darkness. There is no counter but be aware all the same. The lord always has a piece of wargear called a Resurrection Orb that allows any unit within 6" to ignore all the restrictions on WBB rolls except for the 6" rule or if a tomb spyder is within 12".

 

Everyone else:

Take as much plasma as possible. Plasma cannons are your friend and use close range rapid fire plasma to wipe out necron units. ditto on everything in the scout section.

[greatcrusade08]

thanks man, thats a great start, very detailed

 

GC08

[Castus Xanthis]

I think you posted while I was editing. Can you take another look at it please?

[greatcrusade08]

Yep i missed the last bit;

So the only real way to negate WBB is to beat them in CC right? so the LSS cerberus launchers are going to be pretty handy, except i heard that necrons are good against vehicles???

But then first turn charges will be able to clear a couple of his units with bikes and LSS....

 

The cogs are turning :sick:

 

GC08

[Captain Malachi]

Necrons can get a LOT of glances, but find it a bit harder to penetrate vehicles. Of course since the LSS is AV10 it'll be a little more fragile. Just for the record, Castus said monoliths allow re-rolling of WBB, this is partly true, however the necron player has to teleport the squad to the monolith to do so. It also only has a range of 18" and cannot be used in this way if the necron player is bringing in warriors from reserve or firing the particle whip instead.

 

I'd really stress the phaseout issue and I'd list the models that count for it. If you don't know them I can list them for you, just say and I'll get back to you. On the Nightbringer, I don't think it's fair to say he has a ridiculous number of attacks, he only has five and they're at WS6, although they are at S10.

 

I don't actually play necrons as such, but I have the codex so I can clear up any rules issues you have when writing the article.

[greatcrusade08]

I'd really stress the phaseout issue and I'd list the models that count for it. If you don't know them I can list them for you, just say and I'll get back to you. On the Nightbringer, I don't think it's fair to say he has a ridiculous number of attacks, he only has five and they're at WS6, although they are at S10.

 

I thought it was just warriors???, are there more?

 

GC08

[Captain Malachi]

Most of the army counts as a 'necron' (units without the necron rule don't get WBB and don't count for phase out. Specifically, 'necrons' are: Lords, immortals, flayed ones, warriors, wraiths, destroyers and heavy destroyers. Models that do NOT count as 'necrons' are: Pariahs, scarab swarms, tomb spyders, monoliths, the Nightbringer, the Deceiver.

 

To work out how many models to kill, add up each model with the 'necron' rule (the models in my first list). You have to kill 75% of these models for phase out. Fortunately, the whole army will phase out, even those without the 'necron' rule.

[greatcrusade08]

Sweet so the more points he spends on the killier stuff the more "delicate" his army becomes..

 

Where does the line go as far as troops in reserve are concerned, do you destroy 75% on the board or 75% of all full stop?

 

GC08

[Captain Malachi]

*Goes to check codex* All of them, reserves included as far as I can tell. Note that phase out occurs after WBB rolls are taken.

 

The problem is that the 'necrons' are still pretty killy, so his army will most likely be almost all 'necrons'.

[greatcrusade08]

Thanks Capn, youve been a lot of help, just a few questions though...

 

Size wise i imagine a necron army to be about the same number of models to a space marine force, does this sound about right? maybe 40-50 models

 

Also they are low initiative and necron warriors are 1 attack each right? and slow and purposeful???

 

How does WBB actually work, is it like FNP but at the end of the turn? (yes im that dumb)

 

Do certain weapons ignore WBB like FNP, so plasma melta etc, what about rending???

 

Thanks

GC08

[Captain Malachi]

OK, let's see, overall I imagine a necron army to be a similar size to a horde-ish marine army. They have no vehicles (monolith excluded) but their basic troops are 18 each.

 

I2 and 1 attack, but not slow and purposeful, they move like normal infantry (except when teleporting around the board, you'll have to ask Castus on that one though).

 

WBB is a little compicated. Basically, when a 'necron' dies, rather than removing the model, you place it on its side. At the start of each necron turn, you roll a dice, and on a 4+ it gets back up. WBB can be negated by close combat (and only close combat) weapons that ignore armour saves, and any weapon that is twice the models toughness, 8 in most cases, but some need a strength 10 hit. They also need to be within 6" of another model of the same type, or within 12" of a tomb spyder (there must be another model of the same type somewhere on the board). A resurrection orb allows models destroyed by armour ignoring or double strength weapons to attempt WBB. Models destroyed by a failed death or glory attack can not be repaired full stop. Note that lords do not need a same type model nearby to attempt WBB, but they only get 1 wound if they pass. Of course this couldn't be simple could it? No, if they have a phylactery (wargear item) they can get multiple wounds back depending on the dice roll.

[Castus Xanthis]

When the lord teleports a unit with him (Veil of Darkness) they enter by deep strike. When the monolith transports them you treat them as if they were embarked in the monolith. They exit within 2" of the portal.

[Borinar]

Necrons are a very shooty army, they despise CC (mainly because 90% of thier CC units are a waste). They have a variety of ways to get out of CC and are very mobile with various high str weapons and high toughness units.

 

I feel that a scout army will not be able to destroy a monolith so dont waste time trying AT ALL.

 

You want to hit C'Tan with sniper rifles since they blast right through thier 8+ toughness. Hellfire Heavy Bolters work just as well.

 

You will want to lock them up in CC as soon as possible bringing as many power weapon attacks as you can to negate WBB (you will want to hit them either numerously or when out of Res Orb Range).

 

They are initiative 2 for most of the units that count so faster weapons are better than slower ones, they can come in sizes from 10-20 for warriors and can rapid fire you to death very easily.

 

Immortals are toughness 5 and have an assault 2 (24") str5 weapon they will often run them in front of the warriors to soak damage and they can. Pariahs are a joke of a waste of an elite. Wraiths, anything destroyer and scarabs can move like jetbikes.

 

I would really reccomend some scout teams with the heavy bolter option because rolling to wound on 2's will negate thier high toughness units and the range is equall to thier high range hitters.

 

Scout bikes would allow you to catch some of the faster moving range units.

 

Scarabs can be very annoying because they get a +1 cover save even when they turbo boost so they can get a 2+ coversave screaming across the board turn 1 at 24" just to tie you up in CC so thier slower or deadlier units can catch your precious pieces in CC.

 

The deceiver has many terifying abilities, he can effectively redeploy his entire army with him as well as force a pin or morale test up to 24" away even on fearless units, and apparently can do this and run at the same time.

 

Necron players count thier total "necron" models and then when 75% of them are dead they phase out and you auto win, which is why you ignore monoliths.

 

A necron Player can only fit 12 models at the portal so any more models that 12 will be lost so dont expect big warrior units with monoliths unless he expects big losses before trying to reroll failed WBB rolls.

[greatcrusade08]

Wow, thanks for all your hard work guys, ill make a start on the first draft some time later today..

 

GC08

[waaanial00]

A couple of things which I dont believe have been mentioned yet...

 

Swarms of Scarabs turbo boosting gain a 2+ cover save (3+ for Turbo plus +1 cover save)

Gauss weapons score a glancing hit on a 6+ regardless of the armour value of a target so all armour is vulnerable to a unit of rapid firing Warriors

The Destroyers are T5 and have a 2+ save.

Keeping a squad of Warriors in combat is nigh on impossible if there is a Monolyth on the board.

Monolyths cannot be glanced to death (apparently you cannot destroy all of the weapons on it)

Necrons are NOT fearless! This is an important point which I must stress, do not discount the effects of combat resolution and the fact that they are I2!

 

Didnt know about the fact that portal warriors were restricted to 12 unit size and that they counted as embarked. The couple of times I have fought this stupidly complicated army they have gated then moved and shot.

[Captain Malachi]

The 12 model thing is simply room allowance issues, it's not mentioned in the rules so it must be, but yes they do count as disembarking from the monolith.

 

The point in fearless probably should be stressed, people are quite likely to assume millenia old robots are fearless, but they aren't. And as said, with I2 a sweeping advance isn't to hard to get. I should point out that pariahs, tomb spyders and scarabs are fearless though (the C'tan are too, obviously). Oh and flayed ones have I4, not 2, so they're a little harder to run down.

[waaanial00]

And as said, with I2 a sweeping advance isn't to hard to get.

 

My necron opponent last night is testiment to this statement. A squad of 8 or so "active" necrons being swept aside by 9 Tactical marines (power fists rule) after losing the combat by 2. He was not amused :)

[Brother Tual]

destroyers have a 2+?

 

Scouts cannot kill a monolith - the strongest weapon they can get is str 8 and as noted, you can never glance a monolith to death.. melta does not work against living metal - so your ONLY option is to try and ignore it.. BUT if you have a cluttered deployment and that thing deep strikes in it will single handedly kill your army - It shoots every unit within 12 inches of it... and a scout's 4+ save will crumble rather rapidly.. EDIT - ACTUALLY - a melta gun with a natural 6 to pen and then a 6 on the glance CAN kill it due to being AP1 - good luck with one shot weapons though.. only the LSS can get a MM, but then you need a 4+ to hit.. odds anyone?

 

Destroyers are going to be an issue with scouts.. they are essentially a T5 landspeeder with a HB so they will cull scouts out in the open rather rapidly.. T5 is going to be an issue for scouts as they lack the special and heavy weapon options to deal with them... unless you go alot of 5 man + missile launcher units of course...

 

Necrons almost always get a WBB roll - They almost always have a lord around them and/or a monolith or spyder nearby.. shooting a necron list to death is almost near impossible vs a good list with a good opponent...

 

Two problem units that might arise for scouts over marines are immortals and wraiths... Immortals because they shoot like two marines in one and can still move. A mobile enemy is going to be harder for scouts incomparison to marines simply through transport options and weapons upgrades, not to mention the self impossed restrictions of an all scout list..

 

Next are wraiths.. a 3+ invul is not really the problem but the str 6? attacks and the high mobility (they move like jet bikes) Against marines, the lack of ignoring armour really tells as the wraiths lowish attacks bounce off the armour of a marine but with the weaker scout armour they could more reliably cause havok in you lines.. I would watch out for these guys..

 

The only way to deny a necron player the ability to take a WBB roll is to break the unit somehow... LD 10 means that shooting wont be reliable - combat is really the only option - trapping necrons can be rather hard and even a lowly necron lord is going to tally a few scout kills (they hit you on 3+ as will all necrons... ) Your IC is going to be your only real salvation in this area of game play.. A strong IC can do rather well against a necron unit with a solo effort as even a combat resolution of +3 makes Necrons test on a guardsman's leadership... 10 CCW scouts + a powerfist is going to also cause havok but best of luck in getting them in combat with any real number - the amount of close range firepower that an army of the same thing (necrons) can employ in a single turn is terrifying.. I simply cant see them working without a landraider (and they are awesome against necrons, I bet you my bottom dollar that his army will stand still in turn one) and even if you only get one movement phase out of it, the land raider will deliver you troops within charge range 9 times out of 10, and thats where you will win the game..

[waaanial00]

I simply cant see them working without a landraider (and they are awesome against necrons, I bet you my bottom dollar that his army will stand still in turn one) and even if you only get one movement phase out of it, the land raider will deliver you troops within charge range 9 times out of 10, and thats where you will win the game..

 

Against Necrons a Land Raider only has the assault transport and higher transport capabilities over the Rhino (fair enough in an all scout force you can only get the Raider as a tank transport but that is not my point). This is due to the fact that they will be glancing you on 6's whether you are a Rhino or a Land Raider. Necron units dont need to move if they know you are coming to them though so it isnt the fear of the raider its the fact that they know you are coming at you into Rapid Fire range.

 

The redeemer seems to be a good option for anti Necrons but again if you are talking Scout only then it might not be an option for you.

 

Wan

[Captain Malachi]

Actually the standard land raider has one huge bonus over the rhino in a scout only army vs 'crons: lascannons. With nothing else able to kill the monolith this could be invaluable. Just thought I'd point that out.

[greatcrusade08]

What about meltabombs, they dont have the "extra" D6, their base pen is 2D6 so it should bypass the living metal rule No???

Snipers would be good against T5 destroyers, aswell as Ctan in numbers, i always use a ML with them for extra giggles.

Im thinking a couple of strong units of bikers would do well, the extra toughness will offset the lower WS and with a fist should win combat, just for fun you could run an LSS in a two unit charge to lower LD by 2..

 

GC08

[Brother Tual]

a good necron player knows that a landraider wont kill them - redeemer or not - as they still get some sort of 'save from it' but they will be weary of the unit inside as they know that it will tear them to bits.. Pop smoke with your landraider as you move it within rapid fire range (of only their front rank and of only one unit) you will promptly have an 18 radius from your landrader OR everything within 12 inches for a mass rapid fire go... either way, your assault unit is in range... next turn and something dies... add in a support unit or two (LSS unit making combat in the first turn of that one unit in rapid fire range) and a necron player has some tough choices to make and some lucky rolls to make (6's to glance with smoke saves is nothing to be sneeze at in terms of survivability, necrons or not..) without some crafty necron 24' moves and monolith gates they will simply be caught...

[Brother Tual]

the only thing that I know that still gets 2 d6 is ordinance.. and thats roll two dice and pick the highest.. thats why vindicators are absolutely brutal vs necrons.. they ignore ALL of their basic special rules and can take the armoured hoard, pie plates at a time.. the only issue is keeping the dam thing firing.. POtMS in 4th ed was sooo sweet...

[Borinar]

The Destroyers are T5 and have a 2+ save.

 

Destroyers are T5 but they are NOT a 2+, they are 3+

 

They are worse that a heavy bolter but less that an assault cannon, they are str6 ap4 heavy3 but are relentless so they can move thier 12" and shoot 36"

 

Something that should be noted about necron players, a good one will run alot of like units in packs.

 

Example: A necron army can run 1-3 heavy destroyers per heavy slot, so if you were to face two they would most liekly be 1 and 1 not a unit of 2 because of WBB needs. You down one unit and they can still roll WBB because the other was still alive when that unit was killed. The same for destroyers, 3 and 3 will run together better than 5. Tomb spiders are not amazing they are slow how ever they are tough 6 and can generate 3 more t6 wounds by creating a "super scarab" base each turn it is not in CC so it can take alot of bolter fire and is the cheapest Monstrous creature in the game, they also allow WBB if w/in 12" of a necron unit and there is another like unit on the table.

 

It should be noted that Heavy Destroyers are more efficient at killing light armor and regular destroyers or immortals are more efficient at killing heavy armor, since the HD will outright kill light while the massed glances will cripple even a land raider from the lesser models.

 

If you are locked in CC a monolith cannot flux arc you.

 

Wraith Wing Armies, well if they are serious they are bringing 9 (3 of 3) and a Dlord, Just shoot it up, Invul 3+ however, they all have 1 wound and as soon as you kill 1 its a morale check and 2 its below half!! and the Dlord is still vulnrable to Str 10 instant death so Lysander, dreads and vindis can smoke him and his t4 wraithy buddies. But it should be noted a Destroyer lord gets the +1 toughness (for bikes) bringing him to tough 6 for combat and he has a weapon that can ignore all saves including invulnrable and it gets 2d6 armor pen.

 

The common necron armies around me are warrior swarms supported with dual res orbs and monoliths, because you just cannot kill them enough with shooting, you gotta get them in CC and force sweeps. Warriors are 18 points a pop so 15 of them getting swept is a big slap.