New Codex Concerns

[Wena]

To be honest, I have been dreading the new codex. I really like the one we have and besides some very minor changes that could be FAQ’ed I wouldn’t change it.

 

Realizing that the new Codex is most likely coming soon I have some new found hope. I read the pre-release of the IG Codex yesterday and WOW :) – it looks like the Oks might have some competition for most powerful codex now. If this trend continues, we may actually have something to cheer about… a codex worthy of the best marine chapter in the imperium!…

 

Any ways, after seeing the new IG codex what do you guys think?

 

Wena

[Lord Howland Greywolf]

I do not know. I like the fact that the IG are no longer going to be the butt of all jokes. But will they be making the Wolves superpowered, like all the other resent codcies. Well that remains to be seen.

[Ullr Direfang]

Well lets see if a guard platoon (i.e. Single troop choice) can have 21 heavy weapons in it, i am sure we wont have anything to worry about..... more plasma maybe????

[kickme829]

all new codexs will be better than the rest (especially SW) each one will be broken. like the IG one.

[Decoy]

Codex Creep. Enough said.

[zombied00d]

What, no faith in the design team's ability to balance codexes?

 

I just want new SW sprues.

 

And Long Fangs that don't suck.

[ExuroinAbyssus]

To be fair I use Long Fangs all the time and they have not failed me once. If you kit them with PCs and HBs then they mow down infantry or weak tanks, LCs and MLs for long range tank and weak-ish infantry hunting and MMs for those times when theres a city fight game when they try to pull a building down and are suprised by the MM on the other side.

[stinkenheim]

i don't think the new codexes are 'broken' i mean if you look at all the codexes there are options to power gmae them to the extreme and when a new one comes out and people only get a brief look at it the things that stick in your mind are always gonna be the insanely hard things you could do... the simple fact is most people won't take 21 heavy weapons in a troop choice.

 

as for our codex, i can't see there being an increase in the amount of plasma weapons we can take, don't forget they are meant to be rare weapons and the chapter with the most are the dark angels so i can't see any fluff reason for there to be a increase... i think if anything we will get less weapon upgrades than we currently get, for instance we get 2 close combat weapons and a special weapon in our grey hunters... i reckon it'll be knocked down to just 2 upgrades...

 

-i think long fangs will probably lose the split fire ability (maybe the option to take an upgrade character like tellion who'll transfer this ability) but will more than likely get a price reduction

alot of people seem to be thinking 13th company will get in there but i highly doubt that

 

-i also hope we don't get ironclads but rather an 'improved' (and i mean in comparison to c:sm) venerable to represent the fact that we have some of the oldest and most hard bitten dreads of any chapter

 

-there is no way we'll lose the wgbl (or similar powered character) as without one we would have no option to an equivilant space marine captain (think about it, c:sm has chapter master and captain- we have wolf lord and wgbl- comparable character levels) but there is no way they will keep the heavy weapon option as that is pure cheese ;)

 

-i think its a safe bet that there will be more character upgrades for units along the lines of snikrot/tellion style characters... thinking maybe a couple of old wolf guard characters that were in the previous edition

wolf priests and rune priests will more than likely lose some of their combat potential to keep them closer to their c:sm counterparts and help them fit in the spport role, although expect there to be new spells and abilities

 

-i hope to god we don't get something akin to the thunderfire...

 

-iron priests should also end up more lik techmarines in terms of equipments and abilties

 

-wolf guard will almost certainly be split into 2 squads, termies and pa

 

-hope scouts keep obel, although this could be done in with a character upgrade like snikrot...

 

-i dont think we'll get landspeeder storms (at least i hope we don't, i'd rather keep the obel rules as they fit the fluff better)

 

well i've run out of things to say so i might just leave it there...

 

either way i'm looking forward to a new codex if only to end the arguements of 'that list is broken because GW couldn't be bothered to pull their fingers out and left you with a massively out of date codex thats pure cheese...'

even if it does end up an easy list to power game and is considered 'broken' by some for that fact i shall still be usng units that i enjoy playing with and that i like the idea of...

 

+edit+ made it easier to read

[Grey Mage]

I hate Codex creep with the firey passion of a thousand suns turned up to "quasar".

[clanfield]

creep is nasty and also id add there will always be folks screaming its broken its unfair wa wa wa,that happens with every codex comes out

 

whats important is fluff nice wolfy ale swilling elk eating non guliman is da bestz fluff ,and a few tweaks genral updateing to conform with currant style of printing

 

well lose the armoury maybe some bits and pieces we may gain a tweak or two

ill bet grey hunters will stay roughly the same maybe bolt pistol c/c and bolter

blood claws will probly lose some of the wepon options maybe even down grade to 10 frrom 15(or theyll sell a 15 box for twice the price)

long fangs cheaper ye maybe maybe some sort of cover rule to help with low numbers

[Max_Dammit]

There will always be difrences and more powerful army's, if you dont want that than everybody should use the same army and dex, and we dont want that, i play wolves for the sake of wolves, I dont care if our dex would be weaker than whatever, in fluff, wolves are to cool.

[tastytaste]

The power creep is annoying, but it seems that GW has this pension to make Marine anything, water down a bit. The IG codex is really well done and pretty powerful, I am afraid the Wolves will not get the same treatment. Also what niche will they fill between Black Templars and Blood Angels in terms of tactical focus?

[Megalodon]

I have complete faith that Phil Kelly has written an awesome Wolf codex.

[Grey Mage]

The power creep is annoying, but it seems that GW has this pension to make Marine anything, water down a bit. The IG codex is really well done and pretty powerful, I am afraid the Wolves will not get the same treatment. Also what niche will they fill between Black Templars and Blood Angels in terms of tactical focus?

BT- Tactical Horde combat. Also known as bullrush with a brain.

BA- FA based close combat with ranged support. Surgical strikes with normal marines.

SW- Short ranged firepower and CC with some ranged support. Get there, get angry, get stuck in.

[stinkenheim]

I have complete faith that Phil Kelly has written an awesome Wolf codex.

 

i'd second that...

 

also as Max said, we plays wolves because they are wolves and cool not because they are stupidlyhard... thats just an added bonus ;)

[JEFF4i]

Also what niche will they fill between Black Templars and Blood Angels in terms of tactical focus?

 

This is why non-Wolf players are that way, tactics, pfah! Templar may like to get all worked up, hussy fussy, and run at the enemy with swords, but we Wolves have a ferocity that translates into everything we do! So if you're wondering what Wolf tactics are...play us. ;)

[Valerian]

i don't think the new codexes are 'broken' i mean if you look at all the codexes there are options to power gmae them to the extreme and when a new one comes out and people only get a brief look at it the things that stick in your mind are always gonna be the insanely hard things you could do

 

I concur. All of the newer codices have been well designed and are competitive. We'll be just fine.

 

i think if anything we will get less weapon upgrades than we currently get, for instance we get 2 close combat weapons and a special weapon in our grey hunters... i reckon it'll be knocked down to just 2 upgrades...

 

We shall see. It all depends on the design of the army as a whole. For the present, our Grey Hunters and Blood Claws had to have a lot of special weapon, and special close combat weapon options, to make up for what we don't have in the rest of the army. If that design feature changes significantly, then yes, our upgrade options for our Troop selections will have to be reduced.

 

-i think long fangs will probably lose the split fire ability (maybe the option to take an upgrade character like tellion who'll transfer this ability) but will more than likely get a price reduction

 

Something definitely needs to be done with the Long Fangs. Not sure if they'll lose split fire or not, but they have to have some feature to increase survivability. The lack of any "meat shields", combined with the expense of each model, makes them a hard sell.

 

alot of people seem to be thinking 13th company will get in there but i highly doubt that

 

I've got my fingers crossed here. I love the fact that the 13th company is an elite Infantry-centric army. No tanks, no artillery, just some seriously bad-ass, highly mobile, and highly skilled Space Marines (and a few Fenrisian Wolves on occasion). This is the army that plays like I think all Space Marine armies should play. If the 13th do go away, then I think that I'll just have to make up some rules of my own...

 

-i also hope we don't get ironclads but rather an 'improved' (and i mean in comparison to c:sm) venerable to represent the fact that we have some of the oldest and most hard bitten dreads of any chapter

 

I actually disagree here. I'd like to see the return of Bjorn the Fell-Handed as our special character venerable dreadnought to reflect his extraordinary status. Otherwise, however, I don't see why our dreadnoughts should get any advantages over the dreadnoughts of any other chapter. In this regard, I'd prefer consistency across the board, just like I do with Assault Cannon shots, Rhino prices, and Storm Shield saves.

 

-there is no way we'll lose the wgbl (or similar powered character) as without one we would have no option to an equivalent space marine captain (think about it, c:sm has chapter master and captain- we have wolf lord and wgbl- comparable character levels).

 

I agree that we'll probably keep the Wolf Guard Battle Leader (although he might get a new name), but disagree with your assessment. Our equivalent to the Space Marine Captain is the Wolf Lord. Our equivalent to the Chapter Master is a bloke named Logan Grimnar. The guy who isn't reflected in the Codex Space Marines is the WGBL, but we presumably need him because of the Retinue rule and background justification.

 

-i think its a safe bet that there will be more character upgrades for units along the lines of snikrot/tellion style characters... thinking maybe a couple of old wolf guard characters that were in the previous edition

 

Agreed; this definitely seems to be a trend lately, and I like it. I'm really hoping for Ranulf as an upgrade character for the Wolf Guard Bodyguard- he was extremely cool (killed so many Orks that when he finally succumbed to the horde, they built a shrine to honor him). Durfast of Mordrak would also be a good choice.

 

wolf priests and rune priests will more than likely lose some of their combat potential to keep them closer to their c:sm counterparts and help them fit in the spport role, although expect there to be new spells and abilities

 

Certainly see them being aligned with their counterparts in the other chapters. I discussed Rune Priests and Njal Stormcaller, the Rune Lord, in another post, so I won't repeat that here. The only thing that I'm not sure about is how Healing Potions and Balms will work for Wolf Priests. If they follow the trend, then that'll grant Feel No Pain, which would be particularly nice for an Independent Character who can attach to any unit he wants (or even more than one throughout the course of a game).

 

-iron priests should also end up more like techmarines in terms of equipments and abilties

 

I'm sure the Iron Priest will be almost exactly like the new Techmarine from the Space Marines, Dark Angels, and Blood Angels codices, and this is extremely unfortunate, in my opinion. Allow me to elaborate:

 

 

The problem with the Techmarine is that he's got too many toys/abilities, so he gets a little expensive, but none of them are complementary. Instead, you end up paying for capabilities that are at odds with each other. He has better stats, better armour, and can get some good close combat weapons (Power weapon and servo-arm Power fist, and add a flamer, twin-linked plasma pistol, and another Power fist attack if you get the harness). That's great for getting him up close and personal. However, he also pays for Blessing of the Omnisiah, which to really use he has to stay out of the fight and tied to whatever high priority vehicle you want to keep alive.

 

This is extremely unfortunate, too, that such a cool idea for a Marine character type has to always sit on the shelf. All they would need to do really is make the Blessing of the Omnisiah power one out of several tech-related options, rather than a default. You want a vehicle repair guy? Take the Blessing power for your Iron Priest/Techmarine. You want somebody to hang out in the back feeding targeting data to your Long Fangs/Devastator squad? Take the Signum option. You want someone to help call down more accurate Orbital bombardment from the Strike Cruiser/Battle Barge? Take the Comm Grid option. You want more accurate Drop Pod Assault/Teleportation? Take the Battlefield Positioning System relay. You want him to shred in close combat with the Assault Squad? Give him the Power Weapon and Servo Harness stuff, etc.

 

It just takes a little imagination to make an Iron Priest/Techmarine a worthwhile choice. However, unfortunately, I think that GW has missed the boat on this opportunity since the Rogue Trader rules. That is why, if you spend any time looking through army lists on the B&C sub-forums, you almost never see either present. [/rant]

 

-wolf guard will almost certainly be split into 2 squads, termies and pa

 

Agreed (kind of like the Nobz and Meganobz squads for Ork armies).

 

-hope scouts keep obel, although this could be done in with a character upgrade like snikrot...

 

They'll probably get to keep it as standard.

 

 

either way i'm looking forward to a new codex...

 

Definitely agreed.

 

 

Best regards,

 

Valerian

[dragon950]

I don't want to get ironclad dreads., would be better if our ven. dreads. have 13 armor to show that ours are better.

 

If we lose True Grit and have bolters and pistol then our grey hunters should get and extra close combat attack to show how much we like close combat.

 

Blood claws should have ws4/bs3, have the squad size 15, keep all power weapon options, and have +1int and attack for charging.

 

Have long fangs keep the split fire but get bs5, since we cant have combat squads with long fangs it only makes sense to keep split fire.

 

Have our priests keep their current combat potential, my rune priest and a terminator squad took on dante and a full honor squad and then lemartes and a death company squad. He destroyed both squads and special characters, but only 2 wolf guard survived(out of 5).

 

The thing I like the most about our codex is how only HQ can have wolf guard with them, my terminator squads may be a bit point heavy compared to other terminator squads but they kick but in close combat. We can also choose to make our squads any way we want, if we go to pre-set terminator squads then we go one step closer to regualr space marines.

[JEFF4i]

I hope we get Ironclad dreads, or continue to, rather.

[stinkenheim]

-there is no way we'll lose the wgbl (or similar powered character) as without one we would have no option to an equivalent space marine captain (think about it, c:sm has chapter master and captain- we have wolf lord and wgbl- comparable character levels).

 

I agree that we'll probably keep the Wolf Guard Battle Leader (although he might get a new name), but disagree with your assessment. Our equivalent to the Space Marine Captain is the Wolf Lord. Our equivalent to the Chapter Master is a bloke named Logan Grimnar. The guy who isn't reflected in the Codex Space Marines is the WGBL, but we presumably need him because of the Retinue rule and background justification.

 

 

i didn't relly explain myself properly... of course grimnar is the chapter master, but what i meant to get at was the fact that if you look at the marine codex you get 2 levels of space marine captain (chapter master and captain) one with improved stats/abilties and a higher points cost as a result... if we lose the wgbl then outside of the 'support characters' (rune/wolf priest) we would only have 1 other viable infantry option in a wolf lord.

this would then mean that outside of the support chracters we would have noone to which the company captain (wolf lord) could delegate command to and also mean that the on ly way we ould take an imprved infantry commander would be to take Logan Grimnar as a character...

 

i probably still haven't explainedit very well but i hope you all get the jist of where i'm going... we should keep the option of a 'lesser' infantry commander if only for smaller point games when it would be unfeasable to expect the company commander to take to the battlefield... especially if as suggested wolf/rune priest take more of a support role.

 

+edit+ forgot to write my post... onlyput in the quote.... *face slap*

[Grey Mage]

-iron priests should also end up more like techmarines in terms of equipments and abilties

 

I'm sure the Iron Priest will be almost exactly like the new Techmarine from the Space Marines, Dark Angels, and Blood Angels codices, and this is extremely unfortunate, in my opinion. Allow me to elaborate:

 

 

The problem with the Techmarine is that he's got too many toys/abilities, so he gets a little expensive, but none of them are complementary. Instead, you end up paying for capabilities that are at odds with each other. He has better stats, better armour, and can get some good close combat weapons (Power weapon and servo-arm Power fist, and add a flamer, twin-linked plasma pistol, and another Power fist attack if you get the harness). That's great for getting him up close and personal. However, he also pays for Blessing of the Omnisiah, which to really use he has to stay out of the fight and tied to whatever high priority vehicle you want to keep alive.

 

This is extremely unfortunate, too, that such a cool idea for a Marine character type has to always sit on the shelf. All they would need to do really is make the Blessing of the Omnisiah power one out of several tech-related options, rather than a default. You want a vehicle repair guy? Take the Blessing power for your Iron Priest/Techmarine. You want somebody to hang out in the back feeding targeting data to your Long Fangs/Devastator squad? Take the Signum option. You want someone to help call down more accurate Orbital bombardment from the Strike Cruiser/Battle Barge? Take the Comm Grid option. You want more accurate Drop Pod Assault/Teleportation? Take the Battlefield Positioning System relay. You want him to shred in close combat with the Assault Squad? Give him the Power Weapon and Servo Harness stuff, etc.

 

It just takes a little imagination to make an Iron Priest/Techmarine a worthwhile choice. However, unfortunately, I think that GW has missed the boat on this opportunity since the Rogue Trader rules. That is why, if you spend any time looking through army lists on the B&C sub-forums, you almost never see either present. [/rant]

 

Just a quick response to this: I find the only reason I dont play an iron priest is that hes an IC, in a book where ICs are a heavy requirement on my list already.

 

In a codex force Ive found them to be rather useful, especially with the MotF HQ. That his wargear isnt cohesive enough to give him a focused single line job is not a drawback, as it means you have adaptability. I would say that over all though he simple does best in the last place most people think to put him- the thick of it. Attached to a unit of servitors or an assault squad thats advancing, in a rhino even, he stays out of the line fire and can use his CC abilities. In a mech list though, or dread heavy footslogging list he can refrain from wading into the enemy to instead fix one of your vehicles and keep your forces moving.

 

My biggest problem with the iron priest, beside that hes an IC... so if he was an HQ say, is that he doesnt get blessing of the omnissiah or a harness. Either would make him more common in my lists, both would make him present frequently.

[OnlyInDeath]

I personally would love to see Iron Priests have a true role in my army (especially since I'm goin Iron Wolf). I really really hope that with the possibility of a new model range coming out, they get around to revamping the iron priest look, as the model is downright awful. I would rather field a little pewter version of Bran than field an Iron Priest the way it looks right now.

 

Give him some kick butt harness, wolf pelt falling off his shoulders and a dynamic pose with a huge thunder hammer, you got yourself one kickin model....hmmm....might have to consider a conversion here...

[Durfast Spiritwolf]

-there is no way we'll lose the wgbl (or similar powered character) as without one we would have no option to an equivalent space marine captain (think about it, c:sm has chapter master and captain- we have wolf lord and wgbl- comparable character levels).

 

I agree that we'll probably keep the Wolf Guard Battle Leader (although he might get a new name), but disagree with your assessment. Our equivalent to the Space Marine Captain is the Wolf Lord. Our equivalent to the Chapter Master is a bloke named Logan Grimnar. The guy who isn't reflected in the Codex Space Marines is the WGBL, but we presumably need him because of the Retinue rule and background justification.

 

 

i didn't relly explain myself properly... of course grimnar is the chapter master, but what i meant to get at was the fact that if you look at the marine codex you get 2 levels of space marine captain (chapter master and captain) one with improved stats/abilties and a higher points cost as a result... if we lose the wgbl then outside of the 'support characters' (rune/wolf priest) we would only have 1 other viable infantry option in a wolf lord.

this would then mean that outside of the support chracters we would have noone to which the company captain (wolf lord) could delegate command to and also mean that the on ly way we ould take an imprved infantry commander would be to take Logan Grimnar as a character...

 

i probably still haven't explainedit very well but i hope you all get the jist of where i'm going... we should keep the option of a 'lesser' infantry commander if only for smaller point games when it would be unfeasable to expect the company commander to take to the battlefield... especially if as suggested wolf/rune priest take more of a support role.

 

+edit+ forgot to write my post... onlyput in the quote.... *face slap*

 

Let's not forget that the SW did not adopt Papa Smurfs reforms but retains the pre-Heresy structure. So a Wolf Lord is not the equivalent of a Captain - that would be a WGBL. A WL is the equivalent of a Lord Commander (also known as a Chapter Master in some Chapters). So the Great Wolf is the equivalent of a Legion Commander all be it of a significantly smaller Legion than prior to the Heresy and one that allows the use of titles like CM and Chapter to throw its enemies off the scent!

[Durfast Spiritwolf]

I personally would love to see Iron Priests have a true role in my army (especially since I'm goin Iron Wolf). I really really hope that with the possibility of a new model range coming out, they get around to revamping the iron priest look, as the model is downright awful. I would rather field a little pewter version of Bran than field an Iron Priest the way it looks right now.

 

Give him some kick butt harness, wolf pelt falling off his shoulders and a dynamic pose with a huge thunder hammer, you got yourself one kickin model....hmmm....might have to consider a conversion here...

 

I put mine on a bike and, with some adjustments, the existing model worked just fine. Still, he is pretty lame in foot and it's always nice to see new stuff.

[Skrubb]

I personally would love to see Iron Priests have a true role in my army (especially since I'm goin Iron Wolf). I really really hope that with the possibility of a new model range coming out, they get around to revamping the iron priest look, as the model is downright awful. I would rather field a little pewter version of Bran than field an Iron Priest the way it looks right now.

What? I love the model! It is great. I agree it could have a more dynamic pose, but all the details should be kept.

The problem with the Techmarine is that he's got too many toys/abilities, so he gets a little expensive, but none of them are complementary. Instead, you end up paying for capabilities that are at odds with each other. He has better stats, better armour, and can get some good close combat weapons (Power weapon and servo-arm Power fist, and add a flamer, twin-linked plasma pistol, and another Power fist attack if you get the harness). That's great for getting him up close and personal. However, he also pays for Blessing of the Omnisiah, which to really use he has to stay out of the fight and tied to whatever high priority vehicle you want to keep alive.

 

This is extremely unfortunate, too, that such a cool idea for a Marine character type has to always sit on the shelf. All they would need to do really is make the Blessing of the Omnisiah power one out of several tech-related options, rather than a default. You want a vehicle repair guy? Take the Blessing power for your Iron Priest/Techmarine. You want somebody to hang out in the back feeding targeting data to your Long Fangs/Devastator squad? Take the Signum option. You want someone to help call down more accurate Orbital bombardment from the Strike Cruiser/Battle Barge? Take the Comm Grid option. You want more accurate Drop Pod Assault/Teleportation? Take the Battlefield Positioning System relay. You want him to shred in close combat with the Assault Squad? Give him the Power Weapon and Servo Harness stuff, etc.

I disagree. The techmarine happens to be good at different things. To be able to field a techmarine that does not know much about machines is silly. Some of the proposed battlefield roles are interesting, but a a techmarine that is a pure cc monster? No thank you.