lee265 Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 Horus was showen the absolute truth but told lie mixed with the truth. So they let him see the truth then lied. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/166091-was-horus-told-the-truth-spoilers-from-galaxy-in-flames/page/2/#findComment-1963881 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fol_Muroj Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 I believe that we are missing the point of the Galaxy in Flames portion. The point is, Horus was shown the truth. In M41, there are shrine worlds dedicated to the worship of the Emperor, an organized religion centered around the Emperor, and the loyal Primarchs are venerated as Saints. However, what was shown to Horus was lacking any kind of context at all. The statues of the Primarchs who betrayed the Emperor were not present, of course, but Horus has no idea why. Likewise, Horus has only Erebus' explanation for the existance of the Imperial Cult. Horus has nothing that contradicts this explanation, even when he cites the way Lorgar was chastised by the Emperor for worshiping Him as a god. Thus, Horus was shown the truth. However, without any of the underlying premises and context behind this vision, Horus has no reason to doubt Erebus' explanation that this was the Emperor's goal. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/166091-was-horus-told-the-truth-spoilers-from-galaxy-in-flames/page/2/#findComment-1963916 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astalon Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 I believe that we are missing the point of the Galaxy in Flames portion. The point is, Horus was shown the truth. In M41, there are shrine worlds dedicated to the worship of the Emperor, an organized religion centered around the Emperor, and the loyal Primarchs are venerated as Saints. However, what was shown to Horus was lacking any kind of context at all. The statues of the Primarchs who betrayed the Emperor were not present, of course, but Horus has no idea why. Likewise, Horus has only Erebus' explanation for the existance of the Imperial Cult. Horus has nothing that contradicts this explanation, even when he cites the way Lorgar was chastised by the Emperor for worshiping Him as a god. Thus, Horus was shown the truth. However, without any of the underlying premises and context behind this vision, Horus has no reason to doubt Erebus' explanation that this was the Emperor's goal. The thing is he did have a reason to mistrust Erebus, as he himself says. The writing makes it seem like he is going to take a third way as he gets angered by Erebus and Magnus lecturing him, yet he simply goes with Erebus which i felt the writing didn't imply, so was a slight anti-climax. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/166091-was-horus-told-the-truth-spoilers-from-galaxy-in-flames/page/2/#findComment-1964024 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angelwinged Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 Its pretty obvious the Emperor is not God. He is simply a very powerful psychic. My understanding of God is that God is the creating and all powerful force of the universe. The Emperor was a created being and is not all powerful. He is simply the most powerful human being to have ever lived. So where is the real God in 40k? Where is the creator, the real all powerful God? I guess He doesnt care to step in and take part in history. Maybe God knows man will eventually come to him one day anyway? As for the Emperor now...I think he is still fighting chaos psychically and he is still essential to the Astronomican is he not? Without the Astronomican the Imperium would collapse due to the inability to navigate through the warp. It would be cut off in is many different worlds and destroyed a piece at a time. Humanity would fail. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/166091-was-horus-told-the-truth-spoilers-from-galaxy-in-flames/page/2/#findComment-1969806 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simonius Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 IMHO Horus was shown a lie. As it was implied to him that this future was inevitable - it wasn't. It was only him making the choice to believe Erebus that caused this future to be. If he had listened to Magnus or chosen a third way, the future would have been altered. It was the events of the Heresy that caused this future to be. However, speculating on the existing Cult of the Emperor, it may have been inevitable that Emperor worship would come to be. But if the big E really was serious about having no religion (and I do have some doubts), surely if there was no Heresy, he and the Primarchs would have ruthlessly surpressed the Emperor Worshippers. Certainly the Imperium today would be a fairly different place - we might even have technological advancement! :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/166091-was-horus-told-the-truth-spoilers-from-galaxy-in-flames/page/2/#findComment-1970027 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prathios Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 IMHO Horus was shown a lie. As it was implied to him that this future was inevitable - it wasn't. It was only him making the choice to believe Erebus that caused this future to be. If he had listened to Magnus or chosen a third way, the future would have been altered. It was the events of the Heresy that caused this future to be. However, speculating on the existing Cult of the Emperor, it may have been inevitable that Emperor worship would come to be. But if the big E really was serious about having no religion (and I do have some doubts), surely if there was no Heresy, he and the Primarchs would have ruthlessly surpressed the Emperor Worshippers. Certainly the Imperium today would be a fairly different place - we might even have technological advancement! :) Well yes and no, if the Emperor had squashed the warp gods he likely would not have had a problem with the cult. He was after all more than likely a god. His only reason for suppressing the cult was to keep people from being religious (which he felt made them easier prey for chaos). As for the technological advancement. Only in a very limited capacity, the Emperor wasn't fond of stuff like AI because he saw what it could do in the wrong hands. He likely would have kept many things repressed for everyone benefit. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/166091-was-horus-told-the-truth-spoilers-from-galaxy-in-flames/page/2/#findComment-1970268 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dietrich Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 I thought that Horus was shown the truth about the future, with the irony being that he causes that future. If he doesn't rebel and embrace chaos, that future doesn't come to pass. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/166091-was-horus-told-the-truth-spoilers-from-galaxy-in-flames/page/2/#findComment-1972717 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mahoo Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 Ive yet to read the other posts on this thread so apologies if what im about to say has already been said lol I think he was working on 2 things during the heresy A eldar webway portal for the imperium And another thing which would give every human a piece of the emperor's power (and basically making them psykers) But i also recall something about that allowing the emperor to obliterate the chaos gods.........alas im not too sure on all this lol Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/166091-was-horus-told-the-truth-spoilers-from-galaxy-in-flames/page/2/#findComment-2009410 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flummox Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 I thought that Horus was shown the truth about the future, with the irony being that he causes that future. If he doesn't rebel and embrace chaos, that future doesn't come to pass. I believe the chaos gods know the future perfectly and know the heresy will fail whatever they do. But since the emperor is trying to destroy them (false gods or galaxy in flames, I don't remember) they have to stop him. They don't care about the mortal world, only the warp. They are indifferent to who wins, only that the emperor's projets are stopped. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/166091-was-horus-told-the-truth-spoilers-from-galaxy-in-flames/page/2/#findComment-2010048 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ardune Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 The Emperor knew, he masterminded it all. Who breached the warp runes in the Primarchs' incubation chamber and let them be taken? Who made the edict to unmercifully purge the xenos? Who gave stewardship of the Imperium's army to the most ambitious of his sons? Who vehemently rebuked the most religiously vulnerable primarch (who in turn started this whole mess)? Who virtually disappeared and let the heresy foment? Who recalled his most able bodied siege general back to Terra before news of the Heresy? Who let himself be incapacitated before pulling out the victory he could have had all along? Who is sitting right in front of a warp portal being fed countless psykers everyday? And just because he denied his godhood with simple words, we are to disbelieve that which he showed through his prescient actions? The Emperor is simply incubating right now, taking in all the psychic nourishment from his subject race. In the end, he will save humanity from chaos in the best way possible, by becoming it's race-god. After all, how many Eldar do you see dedicated to Khorne, Nurgle, or Tzeentch? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/166091-was-horus-told-the-truth-spoilers-from-galaxy-in-flames/page/2/#findComment-2015501 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuskRaider Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 I think the real point we have to see is that it didn't matter what Horus was shown... Horus was possessed by Chaos once he was revived, and Erebus could have had him watch "Trainspotting" for all we care. The vision was simply a way to put more into the plot and not just say, "... And then Horus was possessed and turned renegade. The end." We know by the end of this, when he battles the Emperor, that the Big E expels the daemons (or gods themselves? Who knows) from Horus' body, and he repents. He, as Fulgrim, was helpless to all the events surrounding him and being unfolded before him. The Emperor did not want to be a god. The Emperor is only worshipped as a god because it brings the High Lords absolute power, as they are in command in his absence. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/166091-was-horus-told-the-truth-spoilers-from-galaxy-in-flames/page/2/#findComment-2015533 Share on other sites More sharing options...
deus lo volt Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 I believe that we are missing the point of the Galaxy in Flames portion. The point is, Horus was shown the truth. In M41, there are shrine worlds dedicated to the worship of the Emperor, an organized religion centered around the Emperor, and the loyal Primarchs are venerated as Saints. However, what was shown to Horus was lacking any kind of context at all. The statues of the Primarchs who betrayed the Emperor were not present, of course, but Horus has no idea why. Likewise, Horus has only Erebus' explanation for the existance of the Imperial Cult. Horus has nothing that contradicts this explanation, even when he cites the way Lorgar was chastised by the Emperor for worshiping Him as a god. Thus, Horus was shown the truth. However, without any of the underlying premises and context behind this vision, Horus has no reason to doubt Erebus' explanation that this was the Emperor's goal. Great post here! Very well put, nice job. :) I think we should all encourage the BL writers to get control of the Emperor's character before continuing the series. Bob seems to be losing a lot of luster! :( Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/166091-was-horus-told-the-truth-spoilers-from-galaxy-in-flames/page/2/#findComment-2015536 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raven Angel Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 A book from the Emperors perspective wouldn't hurt even if it was very early in the Crusade. Nobody said the stories have to come in cronological order. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/166091-was-horus-told-the-truth-spoilers-from-galaxy-in-flames/page/2/#findComment-2015720 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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