Know Thy Enemy: Imperial Guard

[Warp Angel]

*** Revised on 4/24/2009 to take into account Outflanking/BOLS lists and tactica ***

 

Hi folks, it's Warp Angel, your friendly neighborhood nutjob. This is the first article in what I hope to be a comprehensive set on how to use Killhammer principles to exploit enemy weaknesses. With the imminent arrival of the new Imperial Guard codex, and them being my second favorite (and it's a VERY close second) to Marines, I actually believe that I'm qualified to put this thing together.

 

Let's examine their army in general. I'll be doing some _light_ Killhammer assesments, but this is a general guide.

 

Because of the sheer number of models they can field, and the number of dice that they can throw, it's safer to rely on average performance (Mathhammer) than it is for a more elite army. Over time, they're going to have a much flatter curve of results than say... Deathwing, where good luck counts for a lot, and bad luck ends the game quickly.

 

Basic Guards Squad

=============

1) The basic guardsman is the weakest individual model in the game, with a flat 3 statline and a 7 (8 w/sgt) leadership.

2) Their basic weapons, the lasgun, require approximately 18 shots, on average, to kill a basic Marine.

3) Similarly, it takes 18 hand to hand attacks, on average, to kill a basic Marine.

4) Their special and heavy weapons (in a squad of 10) can't be relied upon to hit and wound more than one Marine without amazing luck.

5) They get no armor save against bolters.

6) They get no armor save against flamers, which also ignore cover.

7) Guard no longer benefit from the Ld of an officer nearby or in the vox network. They get the free sarge's Ld of 8.

8) Squads from the same platoon can combine to form larger squads - which aren't necessarily better for them, except to reduce Ld checks from shooting and to lower the kill point total in the army.

 

What this means is that you're probably not going to lose more than one Marine to a round of rapid fire, and might lose two to their enhanced rapid fire capability. You can afford to close with them, using combat squads or small squads, absorb the casualties, then assault, killing them in batch lots.

 

Your basic Marine's D1 is proportionately higher against guard than it would be against S4+ shooting, allowing you to combat squad (reducing D2) and maintain a similar total D rating, but double the number of squads. Unlike when facing Orks, your close combat D doesn't suffer very much from the small squad size.

 

K1 is similarly improved, with bolter fire inflicting a much higher percentage of casualties than usual thanks to guard's low toughness. In an average round of rapid fire from a combat squad, you're going to inflict 4 casualties, causing a leadership check against squads of 16 or fewer members. If you have a flamer instead of one of the bolters... it gets ugly. But the real action is in assault! Bolt pistols should kill 2, and you'll take a guardsman out with slightly less than half of your attacks. Each dead guardsman is one less left to attack back. You're going to win combat by 2 or more with just using a 5 man squad. Making a leadership check of 6 or less is tough, they'll likely flee, and you'll likely run them down.

 

Essentially, don't be afraid to close the distance, and ALWAYS assault at 4:1 odds or better. Watch out for commisars though. They change the odds in interesting ways. Until you close the distance, shoot a different squad than you plan on assaulting. This is one place where you might not want to inflict overkill.

 

Oh, and tank shocking them is fun. They can't do anything about it. No meltabombs, no powerfists (unless there's a commisar with one), no krak grenades, and Ld 8.

 

 

Command Squads

================

1) There are no longer independeent characters in the Company Command or Platoon Command squads unless they buy an upgrade character.

2) Command squads are only able to issue orders within their leadership radius or to a squad in a vox network. Isolate them or destroy them and they can't issue orders at all.

3) Their ability to issue orders makes them a target.

4) Most command squad models are veterans - this means they shoot like Marines.

5) Command squads have small squad size and relatively high firepower.

6) Unless its an upgrade character, the best I you face is 3. Assaulting is fun and profitable.

7) Company command squads have those pesky advisors.

 

From a Killhammer perspective, these guys are TASTY TASTY targets. Relatively High K, but sucky D, great S. By the Killhammer target formula (K-D+S) they're a high priority target. Even if they're in cover (say, behind basic guard squads), it's worth shooting them as you close. Getting them off the table drains guard K and S quickly. They become an even higher priority target if they have the advisors in a Company Command squad. Those guys bend the rules of the game, and not in your favor. It's worth the reduction in total casualties to shoot your long ranged weapons against them as quickly as possible, or land a drop pod with a flamer platform on them... say an IronClad dreadnaught...

 

With just a Ld 9 at best (without an upgrade character),

 

They're a little bit more potent in assault than a typical guard squad, but the I3 hurts bad. Once again, a 5 man combat squad should be able to win combat, though if there's power weapons in there, you might want to just stand and rapid fire.

 

Heavy and Special Weapon Squads

=======================

1) These squads have up to 3 special/heavy weapons in a single six WOUND squad.

2) Special weapon squads have six models, and are very vulnerable to a single flamer template

3) Heavy weapon squads have three, two wound models. They WILL survive a flamer template and benefit from wound allocation without losing firepower for the first three wounds.

4) Neither squad contains sergeants, which means they have a base Ld of 7, making them VERY vulnerable to any sort of Ld check.

5) Neither squad can be upgraded to have vox, which means if they're outside of the command radius of an officer, they can't be given orders.

6) Neither squad can be given a dedicated transport!!!! They have to foot slog it.

7) Special Weapon squads don't have frag grenades. Not a big deal, but it could be important.

 

Like Command Squads, these guys are high priority targets. High K and low D makes them a tasty treat. They go down easy to just about anything you want to throw at them, and without sergeants, characters, or CC upgrades, assaulting them is a no brainer for even a lone Marine.

 

Chimeras

=======================

1) Transport options for just about everyone except as noted above

2) 55 points is CHEAP

3) Still side and rear armor 10

4) Even when sitting still, firepower is low - generally not something to hide from.

5) Allow orders to be issued from inside

6) Allow up to 5 models to shoot from the top hatch, but no longer counting as open topped when they do.

 

The most dangerous use of these vehicles will be to transport command squads and act as an armored bunker that they can fire their melta-guns, flamers, and plasma pistol from, while issuing orders. For an aggressive guard commander, expect to see this tactic a lot.

 

Bolter fire and Krak Grenades are your friend. Don't waste anti-tank on these guys if your opponent has mechanized extensively with more potent tanks. Instead, kill the guard squads nearby that it could be giving orders to and use tactical squads to munch em. Your specific situation is going to modify this advice somewhat, but a basic chimera with basic guardsmen isn't much of a threat.

 

Veteran Squads

=======================

1) Like the basic guard squad equivalent, but can never consolidate into larger squads

2) BS4

3) Same hand to hand weaknesses most of the time as regular guard

4) Higher firepower potential

 

Essentially, treat them as higher target priorty guard squads. The downside to these guys is that they take up a troops slot all by their lonesome.

 

Penal Squads

=======================

1) No more survivable than a basic guard squad.

2) Limited special/heavy weapons

3) Squad size of 10

4) Good Ld and Stubborn

5) Random upgrades make them dangerous

 

These guys are throwaway troops, acting as Hunters. They're a decent tarpit unit, that depending on dice luck, can actually inflict some significant casualties compared to 10 regular guardsmen. Just avoid letting them assault you and shoot them down when it's convenient. They lack any significant ranged threat.

 

Conscripts

=======================

1) Tarpit in absorbing shooting casualties

2) Laughable in inflicting any sort of casualties

3) Even at full size, vulnerable to a strong hand to hand attack.

 

You might see them used to sit on a home objective, in which case control your own and contest theirs. It'll be hard to take a full 50 of them down in shooting when there's so many other higher priority targets on the table that could actually hurt you. Don't bother engaging until late game.

 

The next sections are broken down by force org slot because this is a problem with the guard codex in general. Like Eldar, they can quickly run out of slots before they run out of toys. It will be a challenge for a guard player to pick the right mix of things that will work for them.

 

Brush up on your squadron rules -

-- A squadron needs to be deployed together

-- A squadron needs to maintain coherency

-- A squadron must fire at the same target

-- A squadron with more than 1 vehicle treats Immobilized as Wrecked

-- Hits are distributed among all models in the squadron during shooting and assault

-- Walker squadrons will consolidate into CC.

 

Elite Choices

=====================

Sly Marbo:

-----Good - Awesome K - demo charges, rending AP3 pistol, 2+ poisoned weapon, good hand to hand stats, and awesome deployment rules. He's going to hurt you.

-----Bad - A single model, no Invuln save (though he does get stealth + cover vs. shooting), poor armor save, instant death to S6 weapons, takes up a whole elite slot by himself.

Ogryns:

-----Good - S5 T5 W3 A3 Sv4+, Furious Charge - these guys are absolute brutes in hand to hand. They are the ONLY good hand to hand choice in a guard army. They get a chimera transport and don't have to worry about "It's dark in 'ere" anymore.

-----Bad - Ld 6, these boys need an attached character, and there aren't that many of them to go around.

Stormtroopers:

-----Good - Variable squad size, 4+ armor save, AP3 guns, pistol and CCW, access to two special weapons, get to choose special rules before game starts allowing them to deep strike, infiltrate, etc.

-----Bad - 16 points a model, they cost like Space Marines. But that's the ONLY drawback

Ratlings:

-----Good - BS4, stealthed, all sniper weapons. For you sniper fans, this is cool

-----Bad - like conscripts in hand to hand and like Ogryns with Ld. There's not a lot of durability here

 

The trick for the guard player will be in picking which elites they're going to run with. Sly looks to be an easy choice, but he's a gimme kill point, won't always work. Ogryns provide some defense against hand to hand, and to a lesser extent, so do Stormtroopers. All of the Elites choices are Killers in some way, but are more Hunters than anything else. There are some enemies they excel against, not so much against others. The guard general is going to have to figure out what he's missing in his army, and use these guys to compensate.

 

Stormtroopers need to be killed as quickly as possible if you've got an infantry heavy force. If you're heavily mechanized, their threat level is directly proportional to the kind of special weapons that they have. Ogryns are tricky. Hard to insta-kill, absolute tarpit in hand to hand, and difficult to harm meaningfully in basic shooting. They're not worth wasting anti-tank on... Your best bet may be to tarpit them with a reduced/combat squad and make them waste a couple turns by accomplishing next to nothing. Marbo is deadly. But he dies easily. Think carefully about what unit you're going to engage him with, but balance the damage he can do vs. the damage those weapons can inflict on the rest of your enemy's army. Make the appropriate choice for increasing or maintaining your kill gap and don't fall into the trap of "ZOMG, I need to kill him now!".

 

Fast Attack

==================

Rough Riders

-----Good - Fast, outflanking, good first charge, relatively cheap

-----Bad - not very durable, not very potent after the inital charge in CC

Scout Sentinel Squadron

-----Good - Scout move, the ability to outflank, Good weapons loadouts

-----Bad - Poor in hand to hand, tissue paper armor, Squadron rules work against them in large squads, open topped

Heavy Sentinel Squadron

-----Good - Good front armor, Extra Armor, Good and cheap firepower

-----Bad - Poor side and rear armor, relatively slow, poor in hand to hand

Valkyrie Squadron

-----Good - Fast, good transport, good troop deployment options, potentially high firepower

-----Bad - Squadron rules work against them, one squadron can only control/contest one objective at a time in most cases, high base cost, firepower upgrades cost a lot

Vendetta Squadron

-----Good - Same as Valkyrie, plus good firepower base

-----Bad - Same as Valkyrie, even higher cost when upgrading firepower

Hellhound/Hellhound Variants

-----Good - Actually fast vehicles now, 12/12/10 armor, no more 4+ for partials on the hellhound's cannon, relatively low cost, high firepower potential

-----Bad - Short ranged weaponry, single model... and really, that's about it.

 

So the guard player has a horde of fast attack choices. Each one brings something very very different to their army, and personal playstyle is going to mean a lot. The Hellhound tank family, because of their absolute lethality, needs to be spanked hard and fast. Because they need to engage closely, your melta weapons should be able to quickly get within the half range for double penetration dice. Krak grenades still work too if you're out of melta. Depending on the mix of forces, your longer ranged anti-tank should probably go to different targets. Rough riders you need to treat like any other guardsmen or assault threat (depending on whether or not they've used their lances). They're relatively easy to wipe off the board with a minimum of effort, and can be left alone many times to deal with more pressing threats. The Sentinels are best engaged in hand to hand and tarpitted. With a single S5 attack on most of them, and a max squadron size of 3, a 5 man scout squad can keep them occupied for most of the game, and if they're lucky with powerfists or krak grenades, even kill them. They ususally aren't worth the anti-tank firepower if there's bigger armor on the table, unless that's the only way you can reach them. The Valkyrie/Vendettas are a tougher proposition. They have good armor, good firepower, and good S. You really do need volume of firepower to get them. Remember that they measure ranges from the actual weapon barrels, which could make them further away than you or your opponent thinks, and that regardless of their height above the battlefield, you can still assault their base. Assaulting them can be fun. Otherwise, in the absence of Hellhounds or Leman Russ, volley your anti-tank at them. It might even be worth your while to ignore them for a while if all they're doing is zooming more than 12" a turn and not shooting. Create the kill gap!!!

 

Heavy Support

===================

Leman Russ Squadron

-----Good - can move up to 6" and fire their ordinance weapon in addition to all of their regular weapons, AP3 templates or other special big guns, sponsons, great armor

-----Bad - Kind of expensive with firepower upgrades, Read the Squadron Rules in the BRB. They can't split their fire between multiple units, which makes combat squadding a good idea. There's no better feeling in the world than watching 500 points of tanks kill 90 points of tactical Marines in a full turn of shooting, because that's the only target they had.

Artillery Squadron

-----Good - high firepower, relatively inexpensive - watch out for Medusas. They're engines of destruction when used properly.

-----Bad - weak armor, often open topped, squadron can be a liability

Individual Artillery Pieces

-----Good - Awesome firepower

-----Bad - As artillery squadron, sometimes silly rules

 

The obvious choice here is the Leman Russ Squadron, with the more vulnerable Medusa being a close second. The Russ can get pricy pretty quick, the Medusas are VERY fragile, and as I've pointed out a couple times, the squadron is a liability in many situations. While it's tempting to run with 9 leman russ (at 1100 or so points basic), that's only 3 squadrons. There's a balance between the number of models and the number of units that each guard general is going to have to figure out for themself. As with all squadrons, assault assault assault, close in with melta weapons if you can.

 

Overall tactics

-----------------------------

1) Even with Ogryns, guard don't have a good answer for the Ironclad dreadnaught, especially when dropped

2) Drop pod armies get a huge advantage, since the guard can't kill what's NOT on the table, and they go down so quickly to incoming, short ranged firepower. Remember that you can combat squad once the pod lands!!!

3) Combat squadding is a good idea. You take advantage of your individual toughness vs. the guard's poor infantry firepower while minimizing casualties from their big guns/squadrons that can only fire on one target at a time.

4) Guard aren't quite as good at anti-armor as you might think at first glance. Low BS, relatively low number of melta weapons (most of the time) all serve to make them pretty mediocre at killing tanks. By spamming them with armored targets, some of them will get through, many will last the whole game.

5) Tank shock!!!!

6) Assault cannons and melta weapons. The two best things in our arsenal against armor (especially AV12). The assault cannons have the added benefit of wrecking infantry as well.

 

Dealing with outflanking guard

------------------------------------

The BOLS guys are spending a LOT of time working on outflanking/two astropath lists. There's a strong probability that the powergaming guard players are going to latch onto this as a "great thing".

 

Even with rerolls on table edge, outflanking doesn't do a whole lot of good sometimes. It has the advantage of striking with everything before you get a chance to close the kill gap (i.e. nuke their models), and forces you to deal with their strategies instead of the other way around. This is a BAD thing. But as I've talked about in previous tactica, there's ways and ways to deal with this sort of cheese. If you think of guard outflanking armies as being "drop pod" armies, you aren't going to be far off in what you need to do to deal with them. All of the above advice still applices, and below are some tactics that should help, but it's up to you to figure out which one works for your opponent and your armylist.

 

1) Keep your forces in reserve and go second. Assuming that he isnt' running the Astropath and the Master of the Fleet, and is just running two Astropaths, his entire army is going to arrive before any of yours does. You've effectively taken away the best part of his tactics and can now inflict serious hurt on his relatively fragile forces.

2) Deploy completely along one side of the table, so that any outflanking units face the majority firepower of your army. Done right, and if you go first, you've got two turns to completely clog up one side of the table so he CAN'T use most of it for outflanking. Your opponent's army is then unable to bring in his forces in the way he wants to, and might have to deploy them completely across the table.

3) Assault Assault Assault. Closing in prevents the enemy from using template weapons, and krak grenades work very nicely against AV10 rear armor - which is almost everything but a couple Russ variants. A krak grenade against a 6" moving vehicle has a 25% chance of getting a glancing/penetrating hit... so even 5 naked tactical Marines should be able to mess up a tank pretty badly. Increase squad size and add a power fist... You're talking a world of hurt.

4) Dreadnaughts are going to cause a LOT of pain and/or soak up a LOT of firepower. The outflanking guard armies tend to lack a ton of anti-tank.

5) If you insist on running drop pods, drop them empty. They make wonderful walls on your flank to mess up enemy outflanking maneuvers and mean that you aren't struggling with that third unit being off the table until the 5th turn because of the -2 to your reserve rolls from two masters of the fleet. All you'd be missing is the third drop pod.

 

Hope the updates help. As always, feedback is appreciated.

[Fintan]

Having not played a 5th Edition Battle yet ( First one this Sunday) I haven't got anything to add to your article. I just wanted to thank you for writing a detailed, concise guide that I'm sure will see a lot of use the first time I come across a Guard player.

 

Cheers Warpangel!

[chaplain_quint]

very good summary if I might say, I will find this very useful because there will be a run on guard at my store.

thanks

[Warp Angel]

I've been planning on how to abuse my 8000 (now about 6000) points of guard, and after two codex read-thrus, this is what I've been able to come up with.

 

My prediction is that it's going to start out with guard being strong out of the gate until people get the hang of the new codex and develop counters, and then guard will figure out the "broken" lists and become consistently strong.

 

But they've still got bad matchups - in particular, I think they're going to have a hard time with a few of the Chaos builds out there, as well as drop Marine lists.

[ShinyRhino]

Nice summary.

I also see Guard being tough and more fun than before. That low Leadership will be their downfall though. Anything that can get close, fast will also mess them up. Bikers, pods, deepstrikers, etc. Shooty Terminators with a Cyclone or two might be fun deepstriking in.

[Warp Angel]

Nice summary.

I also see Guard being tough and more fun than before. That low Leadership will be their downfall though. Anything that can get close, fast will also mess them up. Bikers, pods, deepstrikers, etc. Shooty Terminators with a Cyclone or two might be fun deepstriking in.

 

I crunched the math and the Cyclone is the winner against AV12 or less. I thought it was otherwise... but since 12 and lower is the magic number for guard... go go Cyclone.

 

Assault Cannon gets better results against higher AV, but you shouldn't be wasting your termies on low percentage shots against AV14 when there's a ton more you should be shooting at.

[Warp Angel]

I updated the main article to reflect the Bell of Lost Souls style "outflanking" strategies they seem to think are going to be so good.

[Brother Swift]

you are a god warp angel I vote you for the new emperor

[Warp Angel]

Nah... just look the other way when the Warp Angels LEGION finishes rebuilding and launches it's crusade to retake terra from the false High Lords, who have placed rules on us that are allowing the galaxy to be overrun by Heresy and Xenos. They do not represent the original will of the Emperor and have instead taken it upon themselves to preserve their own power at the cost of what we won during the Great Crusade.

[ShinyRhino]

Good updated info, Warp Angel. I find it kind of funny that the new game-breaker in the eyes of IG players is something as simple and as unreliable as Outflank. /snicker.

[jeffersonian000]

IG with allied Witch Hunters could resolve their low leadership issue with a few well placed Books of St. Lucius. Also, there are a number of threads going discussing allies in general, and Grey Knights specifically. The new Guard Dex seems to be ushering in a new renaissance for allied armies.

 

SJ

[Gornall]

Yeah... I've seen some interesting discussions about IG allies. I mean what's not to like about bringing in some PA or TDA Pyschers into a IG force? Especially when you can give them outflanking, furious charge, and other nasty abilities?

[I AM THE AWESOME]

Yeah... I've seen some interesting discussions about IG allies. I mean what's not to like about bringing in some PA or TDA Pyschers into a IG force? Especially when you can give them outflanking, furious charge, and other nasty abilities?

 

The points cost. <_<

 

 

 

Great article, Warp Angel, I have yet to work through your original Killhammer article fully, but I can definitely understand what you're saying. After re-reading the squadron rules, I've decided it's time to bust out some Drop Pods and start Squadding.

[Warp Angel]

I've been conniving how to best use the new guard with my Daemonhunter/Grey Knight army. Though not as much as I probably should be. The GK do something that the guard don't... Fight well in Hand to Hand.

 

There have to be some strong lists out there that I'm not seeing yet, but I haven't participated in any of the discussions in that regard to get the creative juices flowing.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Fantastic summary mate. I've got a few criticisms to make however;

 

1) There are no longer independeent characters in the Company Command or Platoon Command squads unless they buy an upgrade character.

 

As a matter of fact, none of the 'upgrade' characters are Independent Characters. The only one that is an IC is Yarrick, who eats up an entire HQ slot by himself (ie he's not an upgrade character).

2) Command squads are only able to issue orders within their leadership radius or to a squad in a vox network. Isolate them or destroy them and they can't issue orders at all....

 

5) Neither squad can be upgraded to have vox, which means if they're outside of the command radius of an officer, they can't be given orders.

 

No, it's only within their command radius. Vox's simply allow a re-roll of the Ld test to carry out the order, you still have to be within 12" (or whatever the command radius is for the Officer in question) to take Orders.

 

4) Most command squad models are veterans - this means they shoot like Marines.

 

They start out as Officer+4 x Veterans, with advisors tacked on later.

 

With just a Ld 9 at best (without an upgrade character),

 

True, but they'll usually have a Commissar for that exact reason.

 

They're a little bit more potent in assault than a typical guard squad, but the I3 hurts bad. Once again, a 5 man combat squad should be able to win combat, though if there's power weapons in there, you might want to just stand and rapid fire.

 

I'd watch out. The Officer and Commissar can both take powerfists/powerswords and will have decent amount of attacks, plus the unit will most likely feature carapace armour and a Medic. Your Sergeant powerfist will probably kill 2-3, but they'll survive your S4 punches pretty well with the right upgrades.

 

6) Neither squad can be given a dedicated transport!!!! They have to foot slog it.

 

They can use another units Chimera, or hitch a ride in a Valkyrie/Vendetta.

 

4) Even when sitting still, firepower is low - generally not something to hide from.

 

They have a turret multi-laser, which is good at killing Landspeeders. Also, they can pack both hull and turret mounted heavy flamers, which can cause problems for Scouts and still force large amounts of wounds on your power-armoured brothers.

 

The most dangerous use of these vehicles will be to transport command squads and act as an armored bunker that they can fire their melta-guns, flamers, and plasma pistol from, while issuing orders. For an aggressive guard commander, expect to see this tactic a lot.

 

Plasma guns will also be a real pain, as they can be rapid-fired if the IG player can get the Chimera within 12".

 

Essentially, treat them as higher target priorty guard squads. The downside to these guys is that they take up a troops slot all by their lonesome.

 

They can take up to 3 special weapons (one of which can be a heavy flamer), and their 'Doctrines' are either camo-cloaks+defensive grenades (Forward Recon), melta-bombs+one dude with demo-charges (Demolitions), or carapace (Grenadiers). A common build you'll probably see is either carapace+3 x plasma guns, or 3 x meltaguns+demolitions.

 

I would rate them pretty highly as a threat; they're Troops (and thus scoring), they have BS4 and increased special weapon access (not to mention a heavy flamer per squad, if they wish), and 'Doctrines' can cause plenty of head-aches for you (especially if they're mounted in a Chimera or an Outflanking Valkyrie/Vendetta).

 

2) Limited special/heavy weapons

 

No, they don't get any. They only have their basic lasguns, no option to upgrade any of them with special/heavy weapons.

 

rending AP3 pistol

 

It's actually AP2, so he can head-shot Terminators if you're not careful.

 

Ld 6, these boys need an attached character, and there aren't that many of them to go around.

 

No, they're actually Ld7 (Bone-ead is part of the basic unit). Also, they are Stubborn.

 

I would rate Ogryns up there with Veterans as a target priority. They're immune to most attacks (T5 and 3 wounds apiece is a lot to chew through), and they can shrug off powerfists in close-combat and munch Tactical Marines pretty easily. Vindicators are really your only viable counter, that or LC Terminators. Otherwise, it will be a slow, painful grind to wear them down.

 

Bad - 16 points a model, they cost like Space Marines. But that's the ONLY drawback

 

No, their other major drawback is that they suck in close-combat. Having 10 more S3 attacks isn't going to make much difference against Marines. Swamp them in combat, where their guns are useless, and you'll kill them in about 2 turns (1 if you can break them quickly).

 

Your best bet may be to tarpit them with a reduced/combat squad and make them waste a couple turns by accomplishing next to nothing.

 

You are really tempting fate here. Ogryns pump out 3 x S5 shots, plus 4 x S6 attacks (5 on the Bone-ead) on the charge, and in subsequent rounds they're still chucking out 3 x S5 attacks each. That much damage will quickly wear down a Tactical squad, and aside from LC Terminators or Vindicators, you can't kill them quickly enough. Terminators will hold them up and win combat against them, so hopefully allowing you to wear them down (with a 2+ save, you should be able to hold).

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Bad - Squadron rules work against them, one squadron can only control/contest one objective at a time in most cases, high base cost, firepower upgrades cost a lot

 

The squadron rules are double-edged; on the one hand, they ignore stunned results. On the other, they die on immobilised results. It's a risk the IG player will take (as he'll wanna leave at least 1 FA slot open for a Hellhound squadron).

Their base cost isn't that high really, they're comparable to an Eldar Wave Serpent or a Tau Devilfish in terms of mobility, resilience and firepower.

The upgrade to multi-rockets (they have a multi-laser+two 72" krak missiles standard) is expensive, but it's worth it (each multi-rocket pod is a S4 AP5 large blast, meaning defensive weapon). Some people will take the door heavy bolters, some won't. Most won't upgrade the multi-laser to lascannon.

Don't forget that it has the option of turbo-boosting, and it's passengers can jump out (represented as Deep-Striking at any point along which the Valkyrie/Vendetta moved). Stormtroopers can have the ability (it's one of their mission options) to re-roll Deepstrike, so this is a powerful match-up for any IG player.

Overall, it's a very powerful transport (the ability to Outflank alone is worth 20pts at least), with great anti-infantry firepower (it can fire multi-laser+rocket pods while moving 12", and still drop off it's cargo safely).

 

Good - Same as Valkyrie, plus good firepower base

Bad - Same as Valkyrie, even higher cost when upgrading firepower

 

Vendettas need a much higher target priority to Valkyries. They pack 3 x twin-linked lascannons for the same price as a multi-rocket pod equipped Valkyrie. Combined with Outflank, it can position itself to wreak maximum havoc on your vehicles and Dreadnoughts, especially with rear armour shots.

Aside from the anti-tank firepower (whereas the Valkyrie is anti-infantry), the two are identical.

 

Bad - Short ranged weaponry, single model... and really, that's about it.

 

The Hellhound actually has around the same range (12" range on cannon+12" move as a fast vehicle), plus it can re-position faster.

However, I think you're main problem is going to be Banewolves (especially with Creed in the army). Creed grants 'Scouts' to one unit in the army, which can mean a squadron of Banewolves (with AP3 'wounds on a 2+' flamers) turning up on your flank, liquefying your backfield infantry (ie Devastators, Tactical squads holding objectives).

 

Because they need to engage closely, your melta weapons should be able to quickly get within the half range for double penetration dice.

 

I'd use Attack bikes. You can stay out of Banewolf/Devildog range (the Hellhound cannon shouldn't be a worry), then rush in and break them open with a few well-placed multi-melta hits.

Remember that they measure ranges from the actual weapon barrels, which could make them further away than you or your opponent thinks, and that regardless of their height above the battlefield, you can still assault their base. Assaulting them can be fun.

 

You won't catch them in assault; they Outflank, and they're fast skimmers. I'd use autocannons (Predators), krak missiles (Devastators) and melta weaponry (you'll only need one decent hit to bring it down, unless it's turbo-boosting for a 4+ cover save).

Otherwise, in the absence of Hellhounds or Leman Russ, volley your anti-tank at them. It might even be worth your while to ignore them for a while if all they're doing is zooming more than 12" a turn and not shooting. Create the kill gap!!!

 

Yeah, if they are turbo-boosting I wouldn't bother shooting them. If they slow to 12" to safely drop off cargo/shoot (Valkyrie), or 6" to shoot (Vendetta), hit them next turn with your guns.

Good - can move up to 6" and fire their ordinance weapon in addition to all of their regular weapons, AP3 templates or other special big guns, sponsons, great armor

 

The three for you to watch for are;

 

Executioner: With plasma cannon sponsons, you're looking at 5 x plasma cannon templates stationary, 4 on the move. That will annhilate Terminators and your other infantry (even with cover), and even the venerable TH+SS guys will be reduced to molten sludge. Pask (their answer to Chronus, only better) gives it BS4 and effective S8 against armour, which is just plain nasty. A common tactic for the IG player is to take a basic Russ in the same squadron as a bullet-absorber.

 

Exterminator: Turret gun is essentially two twin-linked autocannons, with Pask jumping to BS4 and effective S8. Paired with sponson heavy bolters and a hull heavy bolter, it will chew through your Rhinos and Landspeeders pretty quickly, and force plenty of saves on your infantry. Again, a basic Russ as a meatshield is to be expected.

 

Punisher: With Pask, you should be really nervous. With sponson heavy bolters and Pask, this can see you facing down 29 x effective S6 shots (20 of which only glance thankfully) at BS4. It's more limited than the other two (Executioner can annhilate your infantry faster, Exterminator cannon is twin-linked and higher Strength), but the ROF is scary.

 

Finally, watch for camo-netting, if they're hull down already (ie half-hidden), they get a 3+ cover save. Combined with AV14 frontal armour, this can soak up a lot of damage (even more if the basic Russ in the squadron gets all the damage pawned onto it).

 

Good - high firepower, relatively inexpensive - watch out for Medusas. They're engines of destruction when used properly.

 

Medusa's are ok (they're not that great for anti-tank), I'm more worried about the Colossus with Griffon ablatives (gets more accurate as they're firing as one barrage, and the Colousses is AP3).

 

1) Even with Ogryns, guard don't have a good answer for the Ironclad dreadnaught, especially when dropped

 

Er, yeah they do. Insulate the Command squad with regular squads (so your Ironclad wastes it's heavy flamers on one squad of Guardsman), then melta to the face.

Against a mechanised army, you'll drop out of position, maybe melta a Chimera or two. The embarked Veterans then hop out and kill it with meltaguns.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

2) Drop pod armies get a huge advantage, since the guard can't kill what's NOT on the table, and they go down so quickly to incoming, short ranged firepower. Remember that you can combat squad once the pod lands!!!

 

The dual Fleet Officer list will completely break you. All he has to do is set up a defensive cordon of expendable Infantry squads/Chimera hulls (if he's a gun-line player), and then annhilate the first wave. Your 2nd wave won't show up until Turn 4+, by which point it's too late.

 

If he's a mechanised/Outflanking fan, he'll be too hard to catch.

 

3) Combat squadding is a good idea. You take advantage of your individual toughness vs. the guard's poor infantry firepower while minimizing casualties from their big guns/squadrons that can only fire on one target at a time.

 

I'd advise against it. The IG always have more squads/vehicles to shoot with, it's unlikely you'll overtax their guns. Get into combat as fast as possible, its their weak spot.

 

4) Guard aren't quite as good at anti-armor as you might think at first glance. Low BS, relatively low number of melta weapons (most of the time) all serve to make them pretty mediocre at killing tanks. By spamming them with armored targets, some of them will get through, many will last the whole game.

 

Not true;

- Command squads can have up to 4 meltaguns (BS4 for HQ squad, BS3 for Troops squad)

- Veterans can have up to 3 meltaguns at BS4 (and great transport options), and they're scoring as well

- Stormtroopers can have two meltaguns at BS4 (and great transport options)

- Heavy weapon squads are very spammable, and can score as well (being Troops)

- Special weapon squads are also spammable, and it only takes one good melta hit to wreck even a Landraider (not to mention the abomination of demo-charges against your infantry as a follow-up), plus they're scoring

 

When you take into account Devildogs (in fact all the Hellhound varients can have hull multi-meltas), Vendettas (3 x twin-linked lascannons on a fast skimmer that Outflanks is terrifying, even at BS3 and AV12), Pask+Executioner or Exterminator, IG are not limited in their anti-tank options. Hell, every Infantry squad can pack a meltagun and a lascannon, and they're cheap enough to be completely expendable as a gun-line/Chimera rush.

 

6) Assault cannons and melta weapons. The two best things in our arsenal against armor (especially AV12). The assault cannons have the added benefit of wrecking infantry as well.

 

I'd say flamers are your best friend (especially heavy flamers+Dragonfire rounds on Sternguard). IG hate flamers.

 

1) Keep your forces in reserve and go second. Assuming that he isnt' running the Astropath and the Master of the Fleet, and is just running two Astropaths, his entire army is going to arrive before any of yours does. You've effectively taken away the best part of his tactics and can now inflict serious hurt on his relatively fragile forces.

 

No, I'd bank on him taking two Fleet Officers, to counter the 'hold everything in reserve' counter-ploy. Deploy normally and try to get into good positions, that would be a better strategy.

2) Deploy completely along one side of the table, so that any outflanking units face the majority firepower of your army. Done right, and if you go first, you've got two turns to completely clog up one side of the table so he CAN'T use most of it for outflanking. Your opponent's army is then unable to bring in his forces in the way he wants to, and might have to deploy them completely across the table.

 

In Valkyries and Vendettas, you've just made his day. By clumping up, his multi-rockets+Veteran heavy flamers are getting maximum damage, and you've also lined up your tanks for his Vendetta lascannons. Thats not mentioning if he has Creed in one of the HQ Command squads, giving yet another unit (perhaps an Executioner/Demolisher squadron, or a Banewolf/Devilfdog squadron) the ability to move on.

I doubt you can clog the entire short table edge, the best you'll manage is half (given that his entire army will appear on Turn 2), and you'll really just bottled up, making it easier for him to gank you with his superior ROF and numbers.

 

3) Assault Assault Assault. Closing in prevents the enemy from using template weapons, and krak grenades work very nicely against AV10 rear armor - which is almost everything but a couple Russ variants. A krak grenade against a 6" moving vehicle has a 25% chance of getting a glancing/penetrating hit... so even 5 naked tactical Marines should be able to mess up a tank pretty badly. Increase squad size and add a power fist... You're talking a world of hurt.

 

Not always. Orgyns will shrug off your S4 punches and even the Sarge powerfist, then clobber a few Marines to death every round. Likewise, Command squads can feature carpace+Medic, as well has the hidden powerfists on the Commissar and Officer, so be careful and choose your assaults carefully.

4) Dreadnaughts are going to cause a LOT of pain and/or soak up a LOT of firepower. The outflanking guard armies tend to lack a ton of anti-tank.

 

Not in the slightest. The Vendettas will kill Dreadnoughts pretty fast, as will melta-toting Veterans.

5) If you insist on running drop pods, drop them empty. They make wonderful walls on your flank to mess up enemy outflanking maneuvers and mean that you aren't struggling with that third unit being off the table until the 5th turn because of the -2 to your reserve rolls from two masters of the fleet. All you'd be missing is the third drop pod.

 

Meh, I'd use Rhinos instead TBH. They're on the table Turn 1, and they can transport units after they come on from Reserve (drop pods simply sit there screaming 'free kill-point').

[Warp Angel]

1) If a guard player wants to upgrade units or play with uber powerful ones, he's going to run out of points and/or force org slots, fast.

---If you want to spend an additional 40 points on your command squads and make them full melta command squads, great. You then need to survive long enough to close to the enemy.

---If you want to almost double the cost of every 50 point guard squad to give them a commisar with adequate wargear, go ahead. For every two commars you buy, you can just about afford a third squad.

---If you want to add carapace armor to a command squad, you've just increased squad cost by a significant amount, and they're still going down without a save to just about every weapon in the army.

---If you want to add power fists to a five man squad that's going to be a priority target in the shooting phase, you're spending a LOT of points.

---A fully upgraded veteran squad is still just a bunch of T3 Sv 5+ guys with expensive weapons who die miserably to bolter fire and stiff breezes.

---Pask in a fully plasmaed Executioner is a 300 point tank. Another 150 to give him an "ablative Leman Russ". That's almost 1/4 of a 2000 point army in something that can be taken down by a basic Marine squad.

---Creed, the advisors, and the upgrade characters are fairly expensive when compared to an entire squad of guardsmen.

 

2) The guard player has very little ability to "protect" his most powerful units.

--- Command squads have a command radius. If they want to use it, they need to be in a Chimera or in a If a command squad is within 8" of a flamer at the beginning of shooting, it doesn't really matter if there's a screening infantry squad. Helloooo tasty target.

--- Vehicles in a squadron do not provide cover to each other.

--- You have to remember that glancing/penetrating hits on a squadron are DISTRIBUTED before you roll for effect. If you get three glancing hits against a squadron of 3 vehicles, that's a guarantee of at least 3 shaken vehicles. Squadrons are VULNERABLE.

 

3) Guard's anti-tank is still relatively weak without orders or upgrades

--- There are a limited number of melta weapons available to the army. Most of them are available in small and/or fragile squads, that are relatively limited in effect and have a 6" range for the double dice.

--- Almost all of their lascannons are BS 3, which means you need two to be able to rely on getting a hit. Against AV12, 1/3 of your hits are going to be completely wasted. That means you need about five lascannon shots to guarantee effect. Twin linked lascannons require slightly more than two shots to achieve an effect against AV12. Their odds are substantially worse against AV13, and very bad against AV14.

 

4) Guard has very weak scoring units

--- Infantry platoons, while numerous, are very easy to destroy

--- Veteran squads are no more survivable than a single squad from an infantry platoon, and take up a whole force org slot for one squad.

--- Conscripts are very weak in a lot of ways, but hard to break with just shooting

--- Penal Squads are tougher, but still very easy to destroy compared to most other armies, and also take up a whole force org slot for one squad.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

1) If a guard player wants to upgrade units or play with uber powerful ones, he's going to run out of points and/or force org slots, fast.

 

Probably points, although everything is so cheap he'll be getting quite a good bang for his buck.

 

---If you want to spend an additional 40 points on your command squads and make them full melta command squads, great. You then need to survive long enough to close to the enemy.

 

Enter the Chimera, or of course the ever-flexible Valkyrie/Vendettas for Air Cavalry people.

--If you want to almost double the cost of every 50 point guard squad to give them a commisar with adequate wargear, go ahead. For every two commars you buy, you can just about afford a third squad.

 

You only need one really, plus a power weapon on each Sergeant, then just combine squads. The one Commissar makes the whole 20-30 man unit Stubborn, and you have a fair few hidden power weapons to kill Marines with.

---If you want to add carapace armor to a command squad, you've just increased squad cost by a significant amount, and they're still going down without a save to just about every weapon in the army.

 

They're making cover saves most of the time, or inside a transport. Carapace only really matters in close-combat, where it can really hamper your efforts to smash down the ablative wounds before the Officer+Commissar bash you with power weapons/powerfists.

---If you want to add power fists to a five man squad that's going to be a priority target in the shooting phase, you're spending a LOT of points.

 

They can actually reach 10-strong with maxed out Advisors+Bodyguards+Commissar, but it will usually be 8-strong. The two hidden powerfists will be a problem for you, not to mention if the IG player takes Straken.

 

---A fully upgraded veteran squad is still just a bunch of T3 Sv 5+ guys with expensive weapons who die miserably to bolter fire and stiff breezes.

 

They have the option of carapace, or they can take camo-cloaks. They're very durable compared to Infantry Platoons, and their special weapons will hurt you. Also, they will commonly be mounted in transports (if they're not in camo-cloaks with heavy weapons), so their squad durability isn't much of an issue. The point is that they can stand up to bolter fire (with carapace or camo-cloaks) and their special weapons will cause you a lot of pain (especially plasma guns+'On my Command' Order).

---Pask in a fully plasmaed Executioner is a 300 point tank. Another 150 to give him an "ablative Leman Russ". That's almost 1/4 of a 2000 point army in something that can be taken down by a basic Marine squad.

 

I was just listing options and potential threats, Pask is not going to be seen below 1,500pts typically. Also, you have to get within assault range to use krak grenades on the Russes, which isn't likely.

 

--Creed, the advisors, and the upgrade characters are fairly expensive when compared to an entire squad of guardsmen.

 

True, but people will use Creed in larger games, just like with Pask. So, prepare for him to be there, granting his insane bonuses.

 

-- Command squads have a command radius. If they want to use it, they need to be in a Chimera or in a If a command squad is within 8" of a flamer at the beginning of shooting, it doesn't really matter if there's a screening infantry squad. Helloooo tasty target.

 

My point with screening was that a smart IG player (hell, they did this in the old codex) will use cheap Infantry squads to screen the command squad from enemy assaults/flamers. You won't reach them with a single unit (like an Ironclad or an Assault Marine squad), you'll need to co-ordinate your units to wipe out or break the screening units, then go for the tasty Command squad.

 

--- Vehicles in a squadron do not provide cover to each other.

 

:D Didn't say they did. Chimeras aren't in squadrons, as a side-note, they're individual dedicated transports, so they would be able to screen eachother and the battle tanks behind them (not to mention friendly infantry).

-- You have to remember that glancing/penetrating hits on a squadron are DISTRIBUTED before you roll for effect. If you get three glancing hits against a squadron of 3 vehicles, that's a guarantee of at least 3 shaken vehicles. Squadrons are VULNERABLE.

 

I know, my point is that having another hull to absorb that second penetrating hit could save the Executionter, while wasting the basic Russ (which is still a loss but not as bad as losing the plasma spam tank). Also, if either is immobilised they are instantly destroyed, which is painful. However, with camo-nets and a 2nd or even 3rd hull to absorb damage results, you'll be working hard to take out the important tank in the squadron.

--- There are a limited number of melta weapons available to the army. Most of them are available in small and/or fragile squads, that are relatively limited in effect and have a 6" range for the double dice.

 

I could say the exact same thing about Space Marines. IG can spam melta cheaper and with greater mobility than Marines. Also, all their tanks can take hull multi-meltas (except the Chimera), which while BS3 are still a pain on things like Hellhound squadrons or Demolishers.

 

--- Almost all of their lascannons are BS 3, which means you need two to be able to rely on getting a hit. Against AV12, 1/3 of your hits are going to be completely wasted. That means you need about five lascannon shots to guarantee effect. Twin linked lascannons require slightly more than two shots to achieve an effect against AV12. Their odds are substantially worse against AV13, and very bad against AV14.

 

So, Landraiders are crap at anti-tank then, yes? <_< If you're going to mount these arguments, you have to apply them equally to Marines. Lascannons are the same power no matter which army we talk about. Just because they're IG doesn't make them suddenly useless.

Anyway, IG can make up for their BS3 with quantity, and Vendettas can re-position to get side/rear armour and improve their chances (not to mention they have 3 x twin-linked shots per vehicle). Lascannons are not as good as they were at killing vehicles (due to hull down, glancing hits no longer killing etc), but they're still good for killing most things. For the harder stuff, the IG player will send his melta squads after it. Also, lascannons remain fantastic weapons for killing MC's with, having both the stand-off range, the S9 and AP2 to wound pretty much any MC (not to mention MC's don't usually get cover saves, so they're falling back on invulnerable to prevent getting wounded).

 

-- Infantry platoons, while numerous, are very easy to destroy

 

I think you're missing the point here. Of course, Infantry squads are weak and easily killed, but they're outnumbering you (not just in bodies, but in numbers of individual squads) at least 2-1, if not 3-1. Your anti-infantry will be significantly diluted, and they'll swamp you if you send in units unsupported. As I said before, peel back the defensive layers of Infantry squads, kill the Command squad, and you will be on track. Leave the Command squad intact, or crash against the Stubborn defensive meatwalls, and you'll be in trouble.

 

--- Veteran squads are no more survivable than a single squad from an infantry platoon, and take up a whole force org slot for one squad.

 

With 'Grenadiers' they're as tough as Stormtroopers, or with camo-cloaks they're as tough as SoB (except against flamers of course). Their lack of numbers is made up for by their increased special weapons and improved BS4. Also, they're still significantly cheaper than Marines even with full upgrades. IG players won't rely on them solely, but they will form a powerful counter-attack unit to bolster their Infantry Platoons with. Chimeras and the Valkyrie/Vendettas give them mobility options SM can't match for same price (or in the case of the skimmers, not at all).

 

--- Conscripts are very weak in a lot of ways, but hard to break with just shooting

 

Conscripts are weak, but they're meant to be a meatshield to the Infantry squads, who are in turn a meatshield to the Command squads.

 

--- Penal Squads are tougher, but still very easy to destroy compared to most other armies, and also take up a whole force org slot for one squad.

 

Yeah, I don't think you'll see them outside of themed lists, due to the superiority of either Infantry Platoons or Veterans in the same Troops slot. Penal squads can ninja you (they can Outflank after all), but they're too random to be relied upon.

[Iron_Chaos_Brute]

Agreed with Darius on the drop pods.

2x Fleet Officer + Exterminator + Allied Inq (Mystics)+ Vendetta breaks drop marines in half.

[Warp Angel]

@Iron_Chaos_Brute - If you read the original post, there are multiple options with Drop pods - not all of them actually put forces inside of them. Additionally, the loadout you just suggested is: 2HQ, 1 Elite, 1 Heavy choice, running a hefty points cost for a relatively small amount of firepower compared to a guard army that spams weapons. It's certainly something awesome, but I believe that there's better ways to spend your points, especially against an army that does no deep strike and doesn't use reserves. This goes back to one of the fundamental weaknesses of guard... they have TOO much they can do to be able to do it all well. It's very easy to specialize, but much harder to do an all-comers list. A lot of the anti-marine specialist armies that focus in on lots of advisors aren't great against horde Orks for example. Armies that are good against horde Orks are probably going to struggle against Daemon armies that rely on a lot of big critters and Soulgrinders.... Guard has got to manage the points cost/force org tradeoffs AND their points cost against army capability. They're quite possibly the army best suited to specialize against a particular opponent, but they're middle of the pack when it comes to generalists.

 

@Reclusiarch_Darius - Yes, Landraiders and lascannons are poor anti-armor in general these days. Twin linked on a Marine vehicle, they're better than any solo cannon. There are literally DOZENS of threads in this forum that discuss the rise of MM and Plasma Cannons and the decline of Lascannons in 5th ed. Ask an Eldar player how useful S3 power weapons are, and you'll find that even two sergeants (who apparently can't have PF anymore), and a commisar with a PF/PW are going to do against a full tactical squad with a power fist.

 

Also, I'd REALLY appreciate it if you'd take my entire posts in context instead of snipping out and replying to one sentence at a time. If you do it that way, you'll find that I am listing a SET of weaknesses or a SET of strengths or a SET of strategies that work situationally. If you take any one of my statments as an independent entity, you're going to be able to take it apart. If you look at what I've written as a holistic set of strategies that should be employed with a little bit of forethought, or taken into consideration when building/deploying/playing your army, it's useful.

 

Your criticisms and comments are all valid, but the way in which you're assembling them completely deconstructs everything that I'm trying to accomplish in creating a tactica article and instead creates a "ZOMG guard can't be beaten" wall of text. Your four responses to two of my posts are more than twice as long as ALL of my posts combined, making everything harder to read.

 

I'm asking that you respond in a way that adds to the usefulness of this article, and keeps it in a readable format. What you're saying is good stuff. HOW you're saying it isn't helpful.

 

Thanks,

 

Warp Angel

[waaanial00]

Seems like a pointless post but I want to thank both Darius and Warp Angel for this. Even though there is a bit of back and forth it is really exposing the pros and cons of the new guard codex.

 

I for one am relishing my first encounter with the new "cheese". I am sure that it cant be as unbeatable as everyone believes. I am sure that, as Warp Angel has hinted at, Guard may start to look mean on paper but they do this at a cost and cant get away from being T3 S3 LD8 cannon fodder. The main army is still going to be hitting you with S3 lasguns which can cause a problem in a massed gunfire but when the death toll starts taking effect I am sure that their effectiveness will be dropping significantly.

 

Wan

[Warp Angel]

My estimate is that guard needs to achieve an overwhelming superiority in kill gap in the first two turns before their relatively fragile nature (and yes, even Executioner squadrons are fragile) starts to take its toll. But if they can decisively win the first two turns in kill gap creation, there's not a whole lot you can do to come back from that.

 

Their biggest weakness remains hand to hand. Nothing they have will hold up to a concerted effort to destroy them. Whether it's combat squadded tacticals against basic guard squads or full tacticals against larger ones with a few power weapons, or a multiple assault against one or more guard units to overwhelm them, they're going to die fast. Remember: Every power fist and commisar is a bare bones guard squad not deployed. Every power weapon is a special or heavy weapon not deployed.

 

Tanks and squadrons are all very vulnerable to krak grenades. All those fancy cover saves from camo netting quickly add up to the cost of a sentinel or two, and mean that you're getting hit automagically by assaulting forces.

 

It's up to the general what constitutes favorable assault conditions against squads, but guard infantry are about as vulnerable to assault as it gets.

Vehicle squadrons mean that it's pretty reasonable to expect a tactical squad with krak grenades to severely damage an entire vehicle squadron each turn. I'm going to laugh the first time one of my tactical squads takes out 500 points of Leman Russ in a round.

 

It'll probably go something like this:

 

The quad of 8 dogged survivors bursts forth from the wreckage of their Rhino. Urged on by the cries of their sergeant, the Marines advance relentlessly against the enemy. Each brother, shouting his battle cry, pulls out a grenade. The squad leaps onto the squad of tanks, sticking grenades into open hatches while the sergeant leaps among the vehicles, rending with his power fist.

 

- 7/2 krak grenades hit, 1/2 (7/4) grenades achieve an effect for about 2 effects.

- 3/2 power fists hit, 2/3 (1 total) achieve an effect.

 

Allocating hits across all the vehicles, that means that 8 tactical marines with only a powerfist and no shooting, should AVERAGE 3 shaken or better results against a vehicle squadron that has moved up to 6". This means that EVERY vehicle in the squadron will be adversely affected. Any penetrating hit has a flat 50% chance to kill a tank outright, any glancing hit a 1 in 6. If they sit still under camo netting.... that's 6 hits (2 each vehicle)

 

So much for those ablative wounds protecting Pask's tank.

[ShinyRhino]

Now THAT is interesting, Warp Angel. Assaulting a tank squadron with infantry grenades sounds like pure brilliance. You only have to be able to reach ONE tank of the three to pop all of them! Being based on that one tank during the assault can also keep you out of "Explodes!" range of the others, too. Though any opponent worth his salt would have the one you based explode first.

[Gornall]

Though any opponent worth his salt would have the one you based explode first.

 

Random dice are random... He doesn't get to assign which result goes where. He only gets to assign which tanks get penetrating hits versus glances. The damage chart is rolled after he assigns the hits, so who knows which tank is going to blow up.