Keeping Drop Pods in reserve but not the unit...

[LPetersson]

Let's say I have three Drop Pods and the first two come in on turn 1.

 

If I intended the last drop pod to be empty anyway, could I deploy the unit I bought it for on the field during normal setup or would that unit have to wait patiently in reserve until the drop pod arrives?

 

I can't really see anything to rule either way...

[chaplain_quint]

Good question, but is it at all possible to drop pods empty?

[LPetersson]

Good question, but is it at all possible to drop pods empty?

 

There's nothing to say that Dedicated transports have to have the unit embarked when they deploy (Otherwise you could never buy Razorbacks for units with more than 6 models), so yes, empty drop pods is possible...

[chaplain_quint]

Good question, but is it at all possible to drop pods empty?

 

There's nothing to say that Dedicated transports have to have the unit embarked when they deploy (Otherwise you could never buy Razorbacks for units with more than 6 models), so yes, empty drop pods is possible...

 

Ah, well explained. To answer your question, I think you can deploy during deployment as you are droppodding just the droppod from reserves and not the unit.

[Steelmage99]

Check the Dark Angels FAQ for an answer.

[tahrikmili]

Are you going to use the drop pod as orbital bombardment of sorts? :P

 

Because, well, what happens if you drop an empty drop pod on an enemy squad?

[Frosty the Pyro]

you roll on the deapstrike misshap table.

[waaanial00]

you roll on the deapstrike misshap table.

Incorrect, you deploy the drop pod 1" from the enemy. Its part of their special rules that they avoid them.

[Frosty the Pyro]

no the special rule lets you reduce the scatter, if you drop the pod directly on the enemy (so that it hits without scatter) you will still roll on the deapstrike misshap, as you are not able to reduce the scatter to a safe amount. Thats what I assumed Tahrikmilli ment with droping the pods on enemies.

[Brother Gothard]

From pg. 94 of the AoBR booklet, Reserves section:

Similarly, the player must specify if any transport vehicle in reserve is carrying any of the infantry units and/or independent characters in reserve. If they do, the unit and the transport will be rolled for together and will arrive together. Remember that a dedicated transport can only be deployed, and consequently can only be kept in reserve, either empty or transporting the unit it was selected with (plus any independent characters) [emphasis mine]

That's pretty clear to me. If you select a drop pod for a unit, the drop pod will always be kept in reserves to enter play via deep strike. However the squad that bought it is clearly free to either remain in reserves with the Ded. Trans. and deploy with it when they arrive, or deploy normally. Otherwise, the option to deploy and hence keep a transport in reserves empty would not be there.

 

Viola, you may both deploy empty drop pods, and may also deploy the unit normally with the rest of the force.

 

... unless I have missed something! ;)

 

Oh I found what Steelmage99 was talking about:

 

From pg. 2 of the DA FAQ:

Q. Can you use a Drop Pod on its own, with no squad inside?

A. Yes you can.

Duh! :blush:

[Bran Scalphunter]

Urm, if you quoted that out of the BfM minibook, that quote's no good now Gothard. ;) Or maybe you just mistyped and meant AoBR. I dunno, so which is it?

[Brother Gothard]

Haha, gosh! That would be QUITE a mistake, wouldn't it!

 

No, its the AoBR. Its a mistake. Will edit!

[LPetersson]

From pg. 94 of the AoBR booklet, Reserves section:

Similarly, the player must specify if any transport vehicle in reserve is carrying any of the infantry units and/or independent characters in reserve. If they do, the unit and the transport will be rolled for together and will arrive together. Remember that a dedicated transport can only be deployed, and consequently can only be kept in reserve, either empty or transporting the unit it was selected with (plus any independent characters) [emphasis mine]

That's pretty clear to me. If you select a drop pod for a unit, the drop pod will always be kept in reserves to enter play via deep strike. However the squad that bought it is clearly free to either remain in reserves with the Ded. Trans. and deploy with it when they arrive, or deploy normally. Otherwise, the option to deploy and hence keep a transport in reserves empty would not be there.

 

Viola, you may both deploy empty drop pods, and may also deploy the unit normally with the rest of the force.

 

... unless I have missed something! :blink:

 

Oh I found what Steelmage99 was talking about:

 

From pg. 2 of the DA FAQ:

Q. Can you use a Drop Pod on its own, with no squad inside?

A. Yes you can.

Duh! :blush:

 

 

Fantastic, thanks for that ^_^

[Rythlan]

I don't have my BRB near my, as I am at work, but can you chose to attempt a deep strike on another unit? I thought you had to chose a point at least 1" from another unit, thus you would never roll on the mishap table unless you scattered. Please correct or confirm.

[Frosty the Pyro]

There is no rule that stops you from placing a deepstriking on an enemy unit or within 1", its just that it automaticly misshaps if you do.

 

the direct quote is

"First place one model from the unit anywhere on the table"

 

So you could but its a bad idea, unless your deapstriking spore mines, cus the explode instead of misshaping.

[Aidoneus]

On a related note, what are your options for a combat-squadded tactical squad in a drop pod? Played a game today with a friend who split his 4 tac squads (all with pods), deployed 2 combat squads, kept 2 combat squads in regular reserves (well, 1st turn, because it was Dawn of War), and had a combat squad in each of his 4 drop pods. Was this legal?

[nighthawks]

"The decision .. must be made when the unit is deployed." -C:SM P.51

 

So your friend's tactic was not legal - combat squads must be split when deployed on the table or from the pod - you can't keep one combat squad in reserve and deploy the other as you will not have deployed THE UNIT. the squads count as separate units for all game purposes AFTER splitting, so the deployment of the whole unit must happen at one time, though specifically NOT in one place (they can be deployed in separate locations).

[Agrab]

From pg. 94 of the AoBR booklet, Reserves section:

Similarly, the player must specify if any transport vehicle in reserve is carrying any of the infantry units and/or independent characters in reserve. If they do, the unit and the transport will be rolled for together and will arrive together. Remember that a dedicated transport can only be deployed, and consequently can only be kept in reserve, either empty or transporting the unit it was selected with (plus any independent characters) [emphasis mine]

That's pretty clear to me. If you select a drop pod for a unit, the drop pod will always be kept in reserves to enter play via deep strike. However the squad that bought it is clearly free to either remain in reserves with the Ded. Trans. and deploy with it when they arrive, or deploy normally. Otherwise, the option to deploy and hence keep a transport in reserves empty would not be there.

 

Viola, you may both deploy empty drop pods, and may also deploy the unit normally with the rest of the force.

 

... unless I have missed something! B)

 

Oh I found what Steelmage99 was talking about:

 

From pg. 2 of the DA FAQ:

Q. Can you use a Drop Pod on its own, with no squad inside?

A. Yes you can.

Duh! ;)

 

even further, if you choose not to deploy them in it then your quote rule doesn't apply. Buying a dedicated transport is not the same as choosing to be in it

[Agrab]

"The decision .. must be made when the unit is deployed." -C:SM P.51

 

So your friend's tactic was not legal - combat squads must be split when deployed on the table or from the pod - you can't keep one combat squad in reserve and deploy the other as you will not have deployed THE UNIT. the squads count as separate units for all game purposes AFTER splitting, so the deployment of the whole unit must happen at one time, though specifically NOT in one place (they can be deployed in separate locations).

 

Technically they were held in reserve with each other. When the unit was deployed (walk on or dropped) then i chose to split them, as i could not DP some of them in, they couldn't come then

 

So, either i can force Drop pods to come in before they should (and in essence enter my entire army in turn 1) or they are allowed to when it is TIME for deployment

 

 

also, if it is when the unit is deployed, that means that they must be deployed as one unit, which means no splitting ever (i know this is splitting hairs, but as the wording says, that is what happens)

[Brother Gothard]

even further, if you choose not to deploy them in it then your quote rule doesn't apply. Buying a dedicated transport is not the same as choosing to be in it

I have no idea what this means. Can you clarify?

 

Technically they were held in reserve with each other. When the unit was deployed (walk on or dropped) then i chose to split them, as i could not DP some of them in, they couldn't come then

So, either i can force Drop pods to come in before they should (and in essence enter my entire army in turn 1) or they are allowed to when it is TIME for deployment

also, if it is when the unit is deployed, that means that they must be deployed as one unit, which means no splitting ever (i know this is splitting hairs, but as the wording says, that is what happens)

No, this seems very wrong. When you deploy a unit you split it into combat squads. If held in reserves, the unit is not deployed, and thus is still one unit, not split into two (yet). When you roll for reserves to enter, THEN you may split a unit. This means that a 10 man tac squad in a drop pod, once rolled to enter play, will ALL deploy in the drop pod, or NONE will deploy in the drop pod. You cannot split them into combat squads BEFORE you deploy them, and thus they will not have the option to be half in the pod and half walking on.

 

So, no you CANNOT force Drop pods to come in before they should (I have no idea where you got that idea).

 

And no, deploying a unit does not mean deploying it as one unit, and never being allowed to split it. You've gone and crossed about 10 wires in these two posts, so that nothing you have said follows from anything else.

 

I recommend you read over the rules for deploying units and combat squads, because its all in there. There's no trickery.

[Agrab]

even further, if you choose not to deploy them in it then your quote rule doesn't apply. Buying a dedicated transport is not the same as choosing to be in it

I have no idea what this means. Can you clarify?

Nothing really by it, rereading what was written shows i was just backing you (i thought i was going a step further)

 

 

Technically they were held in reserve with each other. When the unit was deployed (walk on or dropped) then i chose to split them, as i could not DP some of them in, they couldn't come then

So, either i can force Drop pods to come in before they should (and in essence enter my entire army in turn 1) or they are allowed to when it is TIME for deployment

also, if it is when the unit is deployed, that means that they must be deployed as one unit, which means no splitting ever (i know this is splitting hairs, but as the wording says, that is what happens)

No, this seems very wrong. When you deploy a unit you split it into combat squads. If held in reserves, the unit is not deployed, and thus is still one unit, not split into two (yet). When you roll for reserves to enter, THEN you may split a unit. This means that a 10 man tac squad in a drop pod, once rolled to enter play, will ALL deploy in the drop pod, or NONE will deploy in the drop pod. You cannot split them into combat squads BEFORE you deploy them, and thus they will not have the option to be half in the pod and half walking on.

 

So, no you CANNOT force Drop pods to come in before they should (I have no idea where you got that idea).

 

And no, deploying a unit does not mean deploying it as one unit, and never being allowed to split it. You've gone and crossed about 10 wires in these two posts, so that nothing you have said follows from anything else.

 

I recommend you read over the rules for deploying units and combat squads, because its all in there. There's no trickery.

 

I hope i can word it better, all of these are unique ideas, do not take them together

 

1) We know that you can not have two 'units' in the same vehicle and that combat squads are two units. If I deploy them in a rhino, and then combat squad them, how the hell does that work? Either I can not deploy anything that I WILL combat squad in a vehicle or it is when being placed (and thus half/half) provided that they come on at the same time

 

2) Half come in on the 1st turn, if i select the rest of my army to walk on the first turn then they are forced on as dedicated transports, thus my entire army shows up

 

3)This is a technicality; "the decision must be made... when the unit is deployed". Under basic English usage, this means that deployed is a past tense word. We know that you can not split the unit up once it is on the table, and only can you DURING deployment. Once the unit is deployed, deployment is over, so the rules contradict themselves and you can never split it up. Should be amended to saying Deploying

 

 

 

4)unrelated 4th point, I believe Aidoneus and I have argued over this before and I looked for rules then, when i get a chance to be over at his house i will comb through the BRB and find them (i am sure they are somewhere)

[Brother Gothard]

1) We know that you can not have two 'units' in the same vehicle and that combat squads are two units. If I deploy them in a rhino, and then combat squad them, how the hell does that work? Either I can not deploy anything that I WILL combat squad in a vehicle or it is when being placed (and thus half/half) provided that they come on at the same time

I see. Well, you are part-wise correct: what WILL get deployed in a vehicle CANNOT be combat squadded. What WILL get combat squadded CANNOT be deployed in a vehicle. However, this does not apply to Drop pods, as units are never deployed IN them, but deployed BY them. That is to say that when units "in" drop pods are deployed in drop pods, disembarking is a part of their deployment move. So this problem is only for non-drop pod dedicated transports, like Rhinos. If are you going to combat squad a unit, it may not be FULLY deployed in a rhino - half of it may, though, but only AFTER it is combat squad deployed. If you deploy a unit in a rhino (or somesuch) then you have tacitly therefore NOT combat squadded it.

 

I dont know about the rest, but your insistence is making me feel that I have made an error regarding my previous judgements. But I cannot study this now, as I am studying for university exams instead :P I will revisit this, though...

 

your point #2 is very interesting ... B)

[Agrab]

1) We know that you can not have two 'units' in the same vehicle and that combat squads are two units. If I deploy them in a rhino, and then combat squad them, how the hell does that work? Either I can not deploy anything that I WILL combat squad in a vehicle or it is when being placed (and thus half/half) provided that they come on at the same time

I see. Well, you are part-wise correct: what WILL get deployed in a vehicle CANNOT be combat squadded. What WILL get combat squadded CANNOT be deployed in a vehicle. However, this does not apply to Drop pods, as units are never deployed IN them, but deployed BY them. That is to say that when units "in" drop pods are deployed in drop pods, disembarking is a part of their deployment move. So this problem is only for non-drop pod dedicated transports, like Rhinos. If are you going to combat squad a unit, it may not be FULLY deployed in a rhino - half of it may, though, but only AFTER it is combat squad deployed. If you deploy a unit in a rhino (or somesuch) then you have tacitly therefore NOT combat squadded it.

 

I dont know about the rest, but your insistence is making me feel that I have made an error regarding my previous judgements. But I cannot study this now, as I am studying for university exams instead ;) I will revisit this, though...

 

your point #2 is very interesting ... :D

 

the issue for the Rhino is that as dedicated transport EMPTY, which it must be if you are Combat squading, then it doesn't come on with your group role. Thus, you can either have your entire squad show up in their transport, required to be together. OR, you can have them show up seperate and maybe the transport a few turns later. This is so illogical and was sure to come up that i know it must be somewhere (adoineus and i argue and spend hours finding the answers, they are normally very burried)

 

also, on a side point, why is it that combat squading your troops in deployment counts as both units placed if we can seperate only after deployment?

 

as for #2, more on it later

[Aidoneus]

Here's how I understand the order of things (correct me if I'm wrong, and please cite page numbers so I can show my friends, who play this way):

 

1) Deploy the units that will begin the game on the board. If you deploy any unit with dedicated transports, they may start either in their transport or separate from it. Units and transports that are separate may start with one, the other, or both on the board. If you deploy any units capable of splitting into combat squads, you must declare as you deploy them whether or not they will be doing so.

 

2) For every unit not deployed, you must state the manner in which it will be entering play. This means identifying which units are in regular reserves and which come on 1st turn (in DoW), as well as which units walk onto your board edge vs. which deep-strike or out-flank. It also means stating which Independent Characters will be joined to which squads, and whether or not squads will be entering play inside or separate from their transports.

 

3) As the game goes on, you bring units from reserves into play in the manner you specified in #2. If a unit capable of splitting into combat squads enters play via drop pod, as soon as they disembark they must choose whether or not to split up.

 

 

What this would mean is that, for every unit capable of splitting into combat squads, they must all enter play at the same time. If they are kept in reserve (sans drop pod), they must remain 1 unit. Drop pods are the exception to this, as they specifically allow the unit to split when they disembark. Other than that, for a unit to split into combat squads it must begin the game deployed. Is this correct?

[Grey Mage]

I hope i can word it better, all of these are unique ideas, do not take them together

 

1) We know that you can not have two 'units' in the same vehicle and that combat squads are two units. If I deploy them in a rhino, and then combat squad them, how the hell does that work? Either I can not deploy anything that I WILL combat squad in a vehicle or it is when being placed (and thus half/half) provided that they come on at the same time

 

Theres the part that says drop pods are an exception to this rule, and then explains that the exception is that you can choose to combat squad them on the turn they enter play via a drop pod. Your perfectly correct about rhinos and razorbacks though.