New Allies Tactica

[Grand Master Iapetus]

Really nice article from BOLS relating to how the new IG codex enhances the allies options between Guard and WH/DH:

 

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2009/04/40k...f-immortal.html

[jakehunter52]

Yeah, I was just reading it. It is interesting but in a way disappointing. In my view, it shows how the rules can be broken, fluff distorted and just overall how messed up allies are now.

 

On one hand, the guy makes some great competitive combinations:

- GKGM in 50 man unit that benefits from shrouding and aegis!

- GK Termie squads with a priest and furious charge!

- Culexus getting Assault 20 at BS 5 Str 5 Ap 1!

 

But on the other, this is just super abusive even if it is legal and for the sake of good and fair gameplay, should never be taken. I will be interested in what GW does about this. They must of saw this coming but who knows? And lastly, what about the fluff aspect? Some of this stuff is absolutely ridiculous to consider it happening (mostly on the Grey Knight side however, because of how secretive sneaky they are) like why should Sisters get super riled up about "For the Honor of Cadia"? Seriously! I hope that people won't forget that for some people, their fun is in the fluff, not the gaming. However, I am glad to see some things that actually make sense, like allies benefiting from the tactical orders given and Astropaths helping out. Heck, he pointed out that Repentia are now viable if you take Creed! When I get my hands on the book, I might do some tweeking and hopefully it will be cool with whoever I play. Man...Furious Charging Serephim with some faith in the mix...nasty!

[DevianID]

While I like the article, I would caution people from following the BoLS example regarding Scout/Armored Sentinels and Leman Russ Squadrons. Neither of those entries are ACTUALLY available to WH/DH, and if we assume our existing entries let us have things we never had, we will quickly find our armies and sportsmanship under heavy critisim.

 

Taking a minimalistic approach costs us nothing, taking a liberal approach earns us the enmity of the community. The choice for me is clear.

[templargdt]

I disagree a little. I have a major competitor at my LGS that refused to count a Space Marine Demon Prince as a demon and subject to GK special rules because 'it wasn't specifically listed in the codex as a demon'. Despite the name and the horns/tail on the model.

 

If you're playing against stuff like that, I'd go full hog on bringing the pain with the new Guard stuff. Leman Russ Demolisher, hey, it's a Leman Russ, sorry."

[DevianID]

Yeah, but the leman russ demolisher was a 'leman russ' in the previous guard book too. Did you advocate taking the leman russ demolisher prior to the new guard book comming out?

[I AM THE AWESOME]

I disagree a little. I have a major competitor at my LGS that refused to count a Space Marine Demon Prince as a demon and subject to GK special rules because 'it wasn't specifically listed in the codex as a demon'. Despite the name and the horns/tail on the model.

 

If you're playing against stuff like that, I'd go full hog on bringing the pain with the new Guard stuff. Leman Russ Demolisher, hey, it's a Leman Russ, sorry."

 

 

So first you're saying you'll play against people who don't count Daemon Princes as Daemons, because it doesn't specifically have a rule in the codex, and you'll counter this by doing the opposite: Counting a Leman Russ Demolisher as a Leman Russ, even though it doesn't specifically have a rule in the codex that says as much. It's a silly, counterintuitive arguement.

 

That said, I agree with you. Daemon Princes are Daemons, Leman Russ Demolishers are Leman Russes. But you can't use the same point to try and argue two different ways.

[Corpse.]

Newer Codexes take precedence over older codexes. Just because a newer codex has the same unit listed under a different name does not change that its the same unit in respect of the RAI/RAW interpetations. A leman russ battle tank being dumbed down to just "leman russ" is still a leman russ battle tank. However, it says 0-1 LRBT, it doesnt say take a squadron or any mention of it, it just says (like taking a single sentinel) to just take one. Its not in the english language when in that context of the wording when listed as "0-1 Leman Russ Battle Tank" would be "0-1 Leman Russ", not "0-1 Leman Russ Squadron choice".

 

So you have your leman russ, with its new rules. If not, then you can rules-lawyer around and use forgeworld books, since IG can take FW models and then that singular *properly named* leman russ can be taken by you. Because its a part of the IG codex as an expantion book. So you have your complete technical word-out to keep your leman russ tank in two ways, one being a final word where you must own a copy of the forgeworld imperial armor book. Same goes for sentinel squads in imperial armor books.

 

Again, for platoons and the additions given to various units in allies are very nice and powerful, perhaps a nice bonus for someone willing to dish out the troops points to get a said ability where they could have gotten 10 more GK's to assist in a water style, only to throw 55 guardsmen in melee with a character. It goes either way, and now you have a viable horde list availible to you.

 

Its all good, I have no grudges, you pay for what you want in points, and I dont fear any of it.

[Gentlemanloser]

I like that article a lot. It's quite inspiring and might make me actually purchase the IG 'Dex, just to see what an IG army backed by GK would look like.

 

I thought the new Marine Dex would prove just as useful for that, but the inability of Chapter Tactics to be shared (while Orders are...) really limited the reasons to take GK.

 

But, I disagree with Mkerr's;

 

- GKGM in 50 man unit that benefits from shrouding and aegis!

 

The reasoning was stated towards the end of the comments. Unless noted in the rule itself (which it isn't) they aren't carried over by an IC to another Squad. As the IG Platoon doesn't have Shrouding/Aegis as thier own rules, the GM loses both.

 

But outflanking Termies with Furious Charge, and the Animus, sounds too good to pass up looking at. ;)

[boreas]

Using an IG mother list, you can still take:

 

Hqs: Company command squad (make sure to include an astropath for the +1 reserve roll! These basically are your count-as IST command squad) and GKGM+retinue

Elite: GK termies

Troops: 2 veteran squads (count-as ISTs and can lend their Chimeras to your PAGK) + 0-2 PAGK

Fast: FAGKs + whatever IG unit pleases you (although vendettas are powerful, inquisitorial in fluff and can transports the veterans)

Heavy: Well, pick you poison!

 

Or, for a more radical approach:

 

Hqs: Company command squad (make sure to include an astropath for the +1 reserve roll! These basically are your count-as IST command squad) and Inquisitor-lord (+retinue)

Elite: Daemonhosts

Troops: 2 veteran squads (count-as IST) + platoons

Fast: Whatever IG unit pleases you (although vendettas are powerful, inquisitorial in fluff and can transports the veterans)

Heavy: Well, pick you poison!

 

With a DH mother list (radical):

 

Hqs: Inquisitor-lord (+retinue)

Elite: Daemonhosts/assassins

Troops: IG Platoons (with 2 platoons you can field lots of special/heavy weapons teams)+2 IST squads

Fast: Sentinel squadron (my opinion is that you can choose scouts or armoured since both are a "sentinel squadron". Discuss with your opponent while planning the game!!!)

Heavy: 1 LRBT

 

On to the WHs:

 

Using an IG mother list, you can take:

 

Hqs: Company command squad (make sure to include a Master of Ordnance! These basically are your count-as IST command squad) and FNoD

Elite: Celestians+VSS in Immolator

Troops: 2 veteran squads (count-as ISTs and can lend their Chimeras to your PAGK) + 2 SoB+VSS+Rihno

Fast: Seraphims + whatever IG unit pleases you (although vendettas are powerful, inquisitorial in fluff and can transports the veterans)

Heavy: Well, pick you poison!

 

Or, for a more radical approach:

 

Hqs: Company command squad (make sure to include a Master of Ordnance!! These basically are your count-as IST command squad) and Inquisitor-lord (+retinue)

Elite: Repentias (cool factor!) or Arcos. Battle psyker squads (of course!!!)

Troops: 2 veteran squads (count-as IST) + platoons

Fast: Whatever IG unit pleases you (although vendettas are powerful, inquisitorial in fluff and can transports the veterans)

Heavy: Well, pick you poison!

 

With a WH mother list (radical):

 

Hqs: Inquisitor-lord (+retinue)

Elite: Arcos/Repentias/assassins

Troops: IG Platoons (with 2 platoons you can field lots of special/heavy weapons teams)+2 IST squads

Fast: Sentinel squadron (my opinion is that you can choose scouts or armoured since both are a "sentinel squadron". Discuss with your opponent while planning the game!!!)

Heavy: 1 LRBT+2 squadrons of 3 Penitent Engines!!!

 

And finally, my preferred "power-build":

 

Hqs: 2 Flying Nuns of Doom (CC counter-chargers)

Elite: none

Troops: 3 squads of SoB+VSS (flamer/Heavy flamer, evisc. on the VSS)+ 2 Platoons (Plat. comm. squad w/Lascannon, 2 Inf. Squad w/lascannon, 1 Heavy Weapons Team w/3 lascannons).

Fast: None

Heavy: 3 Exorcists

 

With 12 Lascannons and 3d6 Exorcists missiles as well as 5 Books of St-lucius to hold the line, this should dish out lots of Firepowers. If Hordes close in, The SoB (with 8 Faith points to boot!) can roast/bolter most of them. Not unbeatable, by far (nothing is), but it should give most opponents a hard time!

 

Phil

[Grand Master Tyrak]

templargdt Posted Today, 03:05 AM

I disagree a little. I have a major competitor at my LGS that refused to count a Space Marine Demon Prince as a demon and subject to GK special rules because 'it wasn't specifically listed in the codex as a demon'. Despite the name and the horns/tail on the model.

 

If you're playing against stuff like that, I'd go full hog on bringing the pain with the new Guard stuff. Leman Russ Demolisher, hey, it's a Leman Russ, sorry."

 

Two rounds of unsportmanship does not make a good sportsman award. Don't feel that because your opponent is being a ;) , you should be too.

 

Oddly enough, though, you can use 0-1 LR Demolisher, and many other Russ variants, using the opponent's-consent-only Imperial Armour 2 rules. Funny old world, hm? ;)

[Captain Malachi]

All this stuff about using the variant leman russes makes me laugh. Open your DH codex to page 21, look at the bottom in the section headed "using inducted imperial guard or allied space marine contingents". Second paragraph very clearly says only the basic types may be used, so no, you can't take demolishers or exterminators or anything else beyond the basic leman russ battle tank. Otherwise people would be using land raider redeemers and what not as well, I mean, it is a land raider after all.

[Saxxon the Dragoon]

I disagree a little. I have a major competitor at my LGS that refused to count a Space Marine Demon Prince as a demon and subject to GK special rules because 'it wasn't specifically listed in the codex as a demon'. Despite the name and the horns/tail on the model.

 

If you're playing against stuff like that, I'd go full hog on bringing the pain with the new Guard stuff. Leman Russ Demolisher, hey, it's a Leman Russ, sorry."

 

 

So first you're saying you'll play against people who don't count Daemon Princes as Daemons, because it doesn't specifically have a rule in the codex, and you'll counter this by doing the opposite: Counting a Leman Russ Demolisher as a Leman Russ, even though it doesn't specifically have a rule in the codex that says as much. It's a silly, counterintuitive arguement.

 

That said, I agree with you. Daemon Princes are Daemons, Leman Russ Demolishers are Leman Russes. But you can't use the same point to try and argue two different ways.

 

ya, i am stuck fighting against a CSM player whose demon prince 'doesnt count' as a demon because his logic is "it doesnt list him in the book as a demon, or a demonic unit" even though it has demon in its name! trust me on this, in the GK book it states that a demon prince is considered a demon if it has 50 or more pts of demonic gifts, now i am not sure if the new book counts demon upgrades as "gifts" meaning that your still stuck fighting a prince that you were meant to get bonuses for fighting. all you can do is try to lay down the punishment and wait for an update to either the pdf or a new codex. so by this rule of thumb, deamon princes arent demons, and demolishers arent leman russes unless stated they are.

[Marid]

One can always agree to use the Adepticon FAQ. It is the most comprehensive unofficial FAQ I know of.

[Inq. Enmerich Von Vattle]

Hqs: 2 Flying Nuns of Doom (CC counter-chargers)

Elite: none

Troops: 3 squads of SoB+VSS (flamer/Heavy flamer, evisc. on the VSS)+ 2 Platoons (Plat. comm. squad w/Lascannon, 2 Inf. Squad w/lascannon, 1 Heavy Weapons Team w/3 lascannons).

Fast: None

Heavy: 3 Exorcists

 

With 12 Lascannons and 3d6 Exorcists missiles as well as 5 Books of St-lucius to hold the line, this should dish out lots of Firepowers. If Hordes close in, The SoB (with 8 Faith points to boot!) can roast/bolter most of them. Not unbeatable, by far (nothing is), but it should give most opponents a hard time!

 

Phil

 

This looks interesting, quite good and eassy to play... I'm sold...I'm buying IG

[Karitas]

Hi everyone,

 

did i read right in that article that you can no longer take armoured fist as troops?

 

but that you could, by a fenegling somehow take stormtroopers as troops?

 

sorry to ask what might be obvious, but its not plain to me ;)

[jakehunter52]

Just got a look at the new IG codex. Something that they forgot, which is a very big deal IMO, is....Chimeras.

 

They don't have lasguns on the sides any more. They just say 5 models can fire out of it. No restrictions besides that you measure from the hatch. DO YOU KNOW WHAT THIS MEANS!!!!! Poor man's Repressor...wait! It actually better than a Repressor and legal! And even better, you can put tricked out Dominion and Retributor squads in them and they will be ahhh!!!! 18 Heavy bolter shots? 4 Multimeltas on the go? But it is great cause you can take full squads, keep them safe and sound WHILE still dealing out a serious amount of firepower.

[Grand Master Iapetus]

Just got a look at the new IG codex. Something that they forgot, which is a very big deal IMO, is....Chimeras.

 

They don't have lasguns on the sides any more. They just say 5 models can fire out of it. No restrictions besides that you measure from the hatch. DO YOU KNOW WHAT THIS MEANS!!!!! Poor man's Repressor...wait! It actually better than a Repressor and legal! And even better, you can put tricked out Dominion and Retributor squads in them and they will be ahhh!!!! 18 Heavy bolter shots? 4 Multimeltas on the go? But it is great cause you can take full squads, keep them safe and sound WHILE still dealing out a serious amount of firepower.

 

But don't forget - you still have the restriction where models in the vehicle count as moving if the vehicle moves, so Heavy Weapons are out if you want to move and shoot...

[WarriorFish]

You know, the first thing I think about regarding this is how annoying I found assembling the lasguns on Chimeras... :huh: Still, it's a bit clearer rules wise this way. It seems to be a little much effort just to protect some heavy guns, but even stuck as stationary AV12 will protect you nicely from AP fire if you can angle it right.

 

Anyway you look at it it's always good to have the option. If a small squad has to embark to avoid being wiped out or something it's much better if they can fire out with something other than a lasgun!

 

I'm pretty excited about the new IG, but I'm equally pleased that it will also benefit the much ignored =][= armies too.