Scout Bikers and AGLs

[Brother Gothard]

Okay.

 

Material reference: "Codex:Space Marines. Scout Bike Squad entry (pg 141?). 'Up to three Bikers may replace ... blah blah blah' [Emphasis mine]."

 

Question: "May the Scout Biker Sergeant replace his bike's twin-linked boltguns with an Astartes Grenade Launcher?"

 

Issue: The unit entry defines "Scout Bikers" and a "Scout Biker Sergeant." It does not define a "Biker." The unit option for the AGLs defines "Bikers" as the models that may replace their wargear. So the problem then becomes "what the heck is a 'Biker'?" Both the Sergeant and the Scouts are defined as "Bikers," but in different roles; i.e. one is a sergeant, the others are scouts.

 

My argument: Since there are explicitly no "Bikers" in the unit, it can go only two ways:

1 - None of the models in the unit may replace their Twin-linked bolters with AGLs, because none of the models in the unit are "Bikers."

2 - Both the Sergeant and the Scouts may replace their Twin-linked bolters with AGLs, because all of the models in the unit are defined implicitly as "Bikers."

 

i) Thus, for the intents of replacing wargear, that one of the unit's members is a Scout Biker Sergeant is of no more consequence than that the others are merely Scout Bikers.

ii) Also, this argument is not intending to make the case that we want at least some of the models in the unit to have AGLs, and therefore will extend this privilege to all models in the unit as a courtesy to the rest.

 

n.b.: it cannot go both ways; i.e., it cannot be the case that only the Scouts and not the Sergeant may replace their weapons with AGLs, because the scouts are no more bikers than the Sergeant is.

 

WHY SHOULD YOU CARE? Because the basic Scout Bike Squad is 3 models (1 Sgt, 2 Scouts) and they are allowed up to three AGLs. Thus it becomes of material importance whether the Sergeant may be given an AGL for the purposes of creating a cheap, spammable unit. It is of only incidental importance that the Sgt has BS4 and the rest only have BS3 for the purposes of my argument. Though it should be immaterial to a solution, but I am not intending to give the Sgt an AGL and NOT the scouts to take advantage of his higher BS; rather, I am attempting to cram as many relentless STR 6 AP 4 rapid fire grenade launchers into a unit with Scout and Infiltrate as I can.

 

Thanks guys, and sorry for being such an stick-up-the-arse about it.

[greatcrusade08]

Hey man...where did you think this one up ;)

 

My 2 pence

 

The wording seems to allow the sergeant to have an AGL, but i dont think this was intended, since his BS would make it more effective for the same cost.

 

when considering it, i said i wouldnt as i would prefer to give him a power weapon, but then i realised i could do both, as your swapping the bolters on the bike rather than his own weapons...

So for this reason i agree because he rides a scout bike, the bike can have the same upgrades as the rest...

 

GC08

[Isiah]

There was a very similar problem in the DA Codex with the Scout Sergeant being allowed to take a sniper rifle when the unit's entry said "Any Scout may replace his bolter with a sniper rifle...". This caused some heated debate as strictly by RAW the "Scout Sergeant" has a different entry to a "Scout" so no, he couldn't, yet he is still a Scout in the broadest sense.

 

Debate this interesting AGL issue amongst yourselves – but bear in mind a later DA FAQ allowed the Sarge the sniper rifle upgrade ;).

 

Cheers

I

[Brother Gothard]

Hey man...where did you think this one up

;) Hey, if I am going to spend money, I may as well be sure about it, eh?

 

The two reasons this is an issue is because of the Sergeant's higher BS and because normally Sergeant's are not allowed the same gear as members of the squad. The reason why I ask is because this is not a hard and fast rule, since Scout Squads have an "any model" stipulation for upgrading weapons to squad members.

[Bannus]

All of the models are Bikers - so all of the models are eligable.

 

On a side note - anyone notice the points cost? :confused:

[greatcrusade08]

On a side note - anyone notice the points cost? ;)

 

Is this MOD humour for please dont list points costs??

 

We have been good boys on this thread ;)

 

GC08

[Bannus]

Ooops - never mind - I thought I read a loophole, but I was mistaken.

[WarpSpawn]

Since all models in the unit include the word "biker" in their description, there is no reason whatsoever to believe that the "Scout Biker Sergeant" is any less of a "biker" than a regular "Scout Biker".

 

As already stated in the OP, it is then a case of either all or none of them can. Does anyone really believe they gave the unit a wargear option that no model in the unit can possibly take? I know they already gave them shotguns they will never fire, but this would be several orders of magnitude stupider than that.

 

You might get some mileage out of arguing that, because a "Scout Biker" is a "biker", a "Storm Bolter" is a "bolter", for the purpose of special ammo (not that I believe this personally) but that is about the only place this line of thinking can take you.