Are Havocs ever worth using?

[eyescrossed]

I've been against Havocs for a long time, thinking that Obliterators are better in every way, but now I'm thinking that a 5 man squad with 4 Autocannons would be quite useful, especially at taking out light vehicles and IG heavy weapon teams. If so, where do you get Autocannons from, anyway?

[Corpse.]

GW website of course...

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/...otCatGameStyle=

 

Though, your aussie so you may have to type it in your local link, ehe..

 

Personally, I add a barrel to the bolter, clip the underside and add a big "drum" for the AC, and then add a thin wire strap or makeshift chain from something else. Much cheaper.

[eyescrossed]

Are there any cheaper ways to get Autocannons? You know, besides the Bolter thing, but I may try that.

[Brother Nihm]

You could try and convert some, using plastic rod for the barrels (with the dragon heads from the Chaos vehicle sprue as muzzles).

[chillin]

Do they no longer make the autocannon model ?

 

I definately think hvy weop. havocs still have there uses. I don't think 5 havocs w/ 4 hvy weops is the way to go though, you are going to start losing expensive hvy weop models too soon. A bolter guy for each hvy weop is a good rule of thumb, 3 bolters for 4 hvy weops would be the

bare minium IMO. My favorite loadout is squad of 8 with 3 HB's and an AC, great for anti-troop (even MEQ's) and I don't know that I've ever seen a rino or razorback still rolling after a round of fire from them. They are murder against IG, eldar, tau and hoards.And with cover saves as they are in 5th, more dakka is better then ap3 in some situtations even against MEQ's.

Might consider 2 AC's and 2 HB's, but if IG are one of the reasons you consider taking them I would definately put some HB's in there because HB and AC both kill T3 on 2+ to wound and the xtra shots make a difference.

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As for compairing oblits to havocs, obviously the havocs are more versitile and can move & fire, but two LC shots can easily kill 2 oblits and the squad is dead. 2 LC shots can at best kill 2 havocs (of your squad of 8) probably 1 if your squad is in cover and the havocs, for all practical purposes, are still at full strength.

[eyescrossed]

I know they make the Autocannon model, it's just too bloody expensive to buy 4 of.

[Citizen Snips]

I never use havocs, but I have always thought of putting 4 missile launchers in a squad. Its the same price as auto cannons and you have str 8 shots for armor and 4 blasts for troops.

[chillin]

I didn't know if they still made it or not, b/c it's all metal and I know they are getting away from that.

How about using the gun body from the HB that comes in the csm box and plastic rod (or even wooden dow) as a barrel and add the daemon head things from the vehicle sprue and Nihm suggested.

[eyescrossed]

I didn't know if they still made it or not, b/c it's all metal and I know they are getting away from that.

How about using the gun body from the HB that comes in the csm box and plastic rod (or even wooden dow) as a barrel and add the daemon head things from the vehicle sprue and Nihm suggested.

Maybe...

[Corpse.]

Forget what I said about the bolter I used ork drum-shootas, bah my memory is whacked. Using copper rods as the shafts slicing them down... A fair bi of work, could make it easier but I am a butcher-happy when I get my hands on a razor and file...

 

 

Also a popular havoc unit, in moderation is 6 guys with 3 weapons. (sort of like a predator) with 3 heavy weapons in cover. Its cheaper, to the point and no excess baggage if you like to use heavy hitting guns. You wont need 4 AC's to remove 3 heavy weapons teams, heck three will do just fine. Six shots, 4 will hit on average, and you can remove an entire team with each wound from there. He will have last man standing checks for the maybe last one remaining.

 

150 points for 3 AC, 6 man havoc unit in area terrain cover. (6 guys with 4+ cover saves is about as tough as a predator taking anti tank hits, AP3+ stuff)

 

Three lascannon force also works well, but its a drastic 195 points for the 6+3 guns, best off being the full 4 guns and 10+ guys for the investment. (rather take a predator for that~)

 

But, lets see... If you took a LC, 2 Autocannons, and a ML, you would have those 6 shots and a decent range of anti tank weapons, so you could run 10 guys and be able to remove 3 heavy weapons teams on top of killing other targets/instant death and so on.

[eyescrossed]

Hmm... Having 3 will also be better on my bitz box/modelling skills.

[Imperialis_Dominatus]

I'd rather use their four special weapons in a Rhino. B)

[Zhukov]

To be honest? Nope havocs with heavy weapons is not worth it. Obliterators are better in 95,73% of the cases.

[eyescrossed]

Havocs are cheaper though (money wise and points wise) - you can easily convert Havocs out of normal CSMs, but you can only really convert Obliterators out of Terminators, and even then you need green stuff and loads of random special/heavy weapons.

[Corpse.]

Some army builds forgo any defensive and strategic firepower for just loads of guns. Five havocs, 4 guns, all good - move onto next selection. Five chosen, five meltaguns - outflank them, next selection, some noise marines with sonic weapons, next selection, lash sorcerer or shooty HQ of some sort. Next selection, twin flamer raptors, perhaps deep strike, next choice. Maybe termicide unit or two, next slot... And so on, havocs are 4 guns for 150 or less points. Using cover that predators cannot, and dont die to a lascannon so easily.

 

Matter of opinion. I am guilty of running tons of plasma troops in 2k, no less then 28 plasma guns inside rhinos or outflank. Having combi-flamers on the rhinos and a pair of anti vehicle princes for measure. It was a theme, and it worked well. Lots of loadouts.

[Smurfalypse]

I would have to hitch my wagon to the as many heavy bolters as possible setup. Its a personal choice.

[Spacefrisian]

I myself am tempted to take a unit of 9 with Meltaguns and rhino and put them with a PA lord in Rhino. It seems a nice assault unit and i can keep my CSM on objectives this way.

[Night Stalker]

5 with 4 flamers in rhino is the way to go.

 

Heavy Weapons are just too expensive to use on them.

[aberrant_unc]

5 with 4 flamers in rhino is the way to go.

 

Heavy Weapons are just too expensive to use on them.

 

If you were going to do a squad like this, why wouldn't you do chosen instead? Takes up a elites spot instead of heavy and they get to outflank in their rhino for only 15 more points. Cool idea though, and a really cheap anti-horde unit considering all that melta goodness. It is what, around 150 points give or take? 5 flamer templates ought to be able to take out a pretty big squad too. What could you add to increase durability? just more guys would probably be the best thing.

[Night Stalker]

I dont use heavies anyway, not counting two lone oblits. I use mostly elites (dreads, terminators) and fast attack (raptors). So slot is not a issue.

 

15 points is more than 10% increase in price. It's too much for outflank ability in some lists. In others it might be nice asset.

 

I'd rather use another rhino to create mobile cover for my raptors, than outflank. And 4 templates is solid. This unit will die anyway, and is not scoring. I rather add terminators with combi weapons instead.

[Muskie]

I use havocs. I like 6 or 8 with 3 or 4 heavy weapons. As for Autocannons I scoured eBay and I bought IG weapon team bits, they can be had reasonably cheap. I plan to use heavy bolter arms and do some wacky stuff. I also bought one or two of the all metal ones, even one from 2nd or 3rd edition. I have a bunch of rogue trader havocs, but autocannons are rare, even the old old plastic chaos autocannon bit is hard to find....

[minigun762]

To be honest? Nope havocs with heavy weapons is not worth it. Obliterators are better in 95,73% of the cases.

 

I respectively disagree with you Zhukov.

Obliterators are great, there is no denying that but they aren't perfect.

 

Where Havocks with medium weapons (AutoCannons/Missile Launchers) shine is against light/medium armor which is typically Walkers and Transports.

 

Assuming we have the following squads, both at 150 points:

2 Obliterators vs 6 Havocks w/ 3 AutoCannons

 

vs AV10

2 LasCannons @ BS4 = 1.33 hits @ S9 = 1.33 hits

6 AutoCannons @ BS4 = 4 hits @ S7 = 2.66 hits

 

vs AV11

2 LasCannons @ BS4 = 1.33 hits @ S9 = 1.11 hits

6 AutoCannons @ BS4 = 4 hits @ S7 = 2 hits

 

vs AV12

2 LasCannons @ BS4 = 1.33 hits @ S9 = 0.89 hits

6 AutoCannons @ BS4 = 4 hits @ S7 = 1.33 hits

 

vs AV13

2 LasCannons @ BS4 = 1.33 hits @ S9 = 0.66 hits

6 AutoCannons @ BS4 = 4 hits @ S7 = 0.66 hits

 

Now you'll notice that up until you hit AV13, the AutoCannons yield significantly more damage for then the LasCannons, anywhere from 50%-100% more. They are equal at AV13,but the advantage is with the LasCannons as they are able to penetrate.

 

This may seem like a niche role but remember that most armies these days are mechanized, so unless they're in a Land Raider or BattleWagon army, the AutoCannon will typically be better at busting transports. For me, this is reason enough to consider them as competitive choices.

 

The major drawback, of not being mobile, is not that severe when you consider they have a 48" range and with proper placement, will have a solid firebase.

[DrDoom]

II've had some luck with putting the Havocs in a Rhino with three meltas, a PF and an IoK. They generally do after an expensive tank or unit and make there points back.

 

Its not really fluffy tho, so I usually give them a differant name and go with counts as.

[MarshalHelva]

i use them as a retinue for my Chaos Lord. they work better than a CSM squad because i can take 9 and still have 4 flamers or meltas and put them all in a rhino. also taking Huron and 4 flamer guys is a lot of fun. i dont think i would ever use them with heavy weapons as a stand and shoot squad though

[Pigeons]

i'm considering something like a 6 man squad with two heavy bolters and two missile launchers for my currently 2,000 point army. (this addition would be part of the block bumping it to 2.5k)

 

 

fairly cheap, the ranges are close, and you've got the option of either all anti-infantry or taking out walkers and buggies and such, so it's versatile too.

 

 

 

not sure whether they'd need a rhino though, since they'll just be standing and shooting.