Are Havocs ever worth using?

[minigun762]

i'm considering something like a 6 man squad with two heavy bolters and two missile launchers for my currently 2,000 point army. (this addition would be part of the block bumping it to 2.5k)

 

fairly cheap, the ranges are close, and you've got the option of either all anti-infantry or taking out walkers and buggies and such, so it's versatile too.

I'd replace the Heavy Bolters with AutoCannons personally. You lose 2 shots, but gain +2S and +12". The main issue is that Heavy Bolters are too weak to be considered an anti-tank weapon.

 

not sure whether they'd need a rhino though, since they'll just be standing and shooting.

Rhinos can be useful as terrain or LOS blockers, but not normally as transports.

[Brother Asmodius]

Dont have my codex in front of me at the moment but how does a Icon of Khorne, 10 man squad with 4 specials sound along with perhaps an aspiring champ? It may be too points intensive though

[minigun762]

Dont have my codex in front of me at the moment but how does a Icon of Khorne, 10 man squad with 4 specials sound along with perhaps an aspiring champ? It may be too points intensive though

 

It wouldn't be bad, though I'd probably go with 8 guys instead because

1) That saves points

2) Thats Khorne's sacred number

3) 8 is typically enough for an assault squad

 

My thought with this squad would be "why not take marked CSMs instead?". Is the +2 Special weapons worth losing scoring status?

I don't know, but its something to consider.

 

 

Personally, I think using the Havocks as Special weapon spammers isn't a bad idea, its just that we already can do that very well.

Terminators with Combi-Weapons

Chosen

CSM squads

Even small Biker/Raptors squads

All these guys can pack Special weapons effectively, but unless its an Obliterator or mounted on a vehicle, we tend to lack Heavy weapons.

[Maladon]

well before I quit playing 40k for fantasy and WoW, I was using these as my hvy support choices-

 

3- obliterators

10 man havoc squad AC with twin linked bolter, 4 hvy bolters.

 

80% of the time, the took out at least 2 or more full squads by themselves.... mass dice rolling for the win!

[Hydra Bait]

I used a little unit of 5 Havocs with 4 Heavy Bolters in a local 1000 pts. tournament, and they performed alright. In hindsight, I would have swapped out 2 of the HBs with Missile launchers just so they could take on transports, but as is they did a great job.

[Sigismund's Ghost]

While I am in the obliterator > Havoc camp I do have a suggestion on conversions. I have seen Sentinal and/or guard heavy weapon autocannons used on mostly stock CSM minis with the left arm from the CSM heavy bolter. Looks like it would be a straightforward conversion, and bits would be cheaper than buying 4 metal models.

[David the Despoiler]

Why not just buy Space Marine Devastators and a box of CSM, add a skull or chain here and there and voila. Why not bitz bash the CSM and the SM also, to make out 5 more Chaos Marines?

[Argon]

Why not just buy Space Marine Devastators and a box of CSM, add a skull or chain here and there and voila. Why not bitz bash the CSM and the SM also, to make out 5 more Chaos Marines?

 

Don't forget you have to get rid of all the Aquilas and other blatantly Imperial symbols. It would be kinda weird to see a unit of Havocs running around with little Aquilas on their heavy bolters.

[David the Despoiler]

Nonetheless, it's not that hard to do.

[Brother Asmodius]

My thought with this squad would be "why not take marked CSMs instead?". Is the +2 Special weapons worth losing scoring status?

I don't know, but its something to consider.

 

Well for me I already make use of all 6 troop choices and i find chosen to be over-priced and generally worthless if their outflank fails. However im not sure if that applies to the OP so its probably irrelavent and in most cases Marked CSMs are better except for the deception factor of assaulting Havocs

[eyescrossed]

Why not just buy Space Marine Devastators and a box of CSM, add a skull or chain here and there and voila. Why not bitz bash the CSM and the SM also, to make out 5 more Chaos Marines?

Because some people want Autocannons... And Devs don't have them...

[Raulmichile]

I've been using a squad of 5 or 6 havocs with 3 or 4 autocannons since 3.5 Ed Codex and they never let me down. They now can't have tank hunters and Oblits may be more polifacetic but these guys can open anything with AV12 in one turn letting Oblits do the job with AV13 or more tanks. Once thier primary job is done (busting medium and light vehicles) they can lend anti infantry or monstruous creatures support. The most important asset is that due to their 48" range they can dish out some punishment and avoid most potential return fire.

 

Sure, they are not what they used to be in 3.5 Codex but they are still ok with the correct choice of weapons and some foreplanning. They are not a no brainer any more but they have thier uses.

[minigun762]

but these guys can open anything with AV12 in one turn letting Oblits do the job with AV13 or more tanks. Once thier primary job is done (busting medium and light vehicles) they can lend anti infantry or monstruous creatures support.

 

Thats exactly my thought, that they make a wonderful pairing with Obliterators (or Defilers in my case). They're a niche unit but its an important niche. When you're debating about adding in that 3rd squad of Obliterators, I'd seriously consider the AutoCannon Havock as an alternative.

[Smurfalypse]

Only time i ever use havoks are when i run 10 w/two flamers and two melta-guns. A champ w/powerfist and an icon, all in a rhino. Basically as another base CSM squad with a few extra special weapons.

[minigun762]

Here is a thought. I'm a fan of the AutoCannon Havocks as I've mentioned, but could you accomplish the same thing with Plasmagun Chosen instead?

 

Example 1:

8 Havocks, 4 AutoCannons = 200 points

8 S7 shots @ 48"

 

Example 2:

8 Chosen, 4 Plasmaguns = 204 points

4 S7 shots @ 24"

8 S7 shots @ 12"

 

So basically you're relying on Infiltrate to compensate for the half range/half firepower of the Plasma. The good news is that you are better geared to handle MEQ/TEQ/MCs

[Smurfalypse]

The numbers are numbers but there are things that go into the "whole" that are never shown on the numbers. x2 shots from autocannon at a long range constantly, a generally safer spot on the battlefield, not killing yourself with "gets hot!" rule, all bascially say the autocannons are probably better served in general.

 

The upside for chosen is the infiltrate rule which can be handy in alot of different situations.

 

If we are talking firebase there really isnt a comparison here. If you want an elite with plasma you are probably gonna take terms with combi-plasma. If you want a unit that can roll around and be mobile with some mid/short range firepower then the chosen take it. This is basically talking apples and oranges though.