Assualt marines in Rhinos?

[Jethsye]

I'm thinking about fielding an entire mechanised force, though it lacks that little extra CC punch which you can get from assualt marines. I'm just wondering what kind of mileage people have been getting from an assualt sqaud packed into a rhino. I really don't want to use the jump-pack option as they would be the only infantry models on the board for me, comparinng that to the difference bewteen 5 and 6 tanks.

[Marek Grimfang]

YOu have to determine what kind of role they are going to play in your army, and how many squads you intend to use.

 

I dont usually ever take just one of something. Ass. Sqds. need to be backed up by something since they need to play an aggressive role in your list. They can't hold objectives, and they can't assault right out of a rhino.

 

I know you loose a turn of assault and what not when using rhino-bourne ass sqds, but I think they are a viable choice.

 

 

- Marine or MEQ killers, PF/Pw/ Thunder Hammer, and/or Plasma Pistols.

 

- For hordes you can use two flamers in a squad.

 

You can combat squad them, but I wouldnt personally. Points allowing, take two squads so they can compliment and back each other up. I usually have a CC oriented Dread with an Assault Canon and DCCW helping out as well specifically for them.

 

Its a good cheap choice for going after HQs and their attached squads. Attach an IC or Character if you are going to do this.

[Jackelope King]

I've been considering using assault marines in a rhino, but not for a true "close combat punch" (mostly because other units in the marine army do that job better). Instead, I was planning on giving two of the members of the squad flamers and having the unit roll around the table doing flamer drive-bys on enemy infantry, preferably on one of the flanks. With other vehicles in my army presenting tastier targets (like upgraded Razorbacks), I wanted to provide an up-close threat, and a tarpit.

 

If the Rhino gets close enough for the assault marines to have a BBQ out of the top hatch, so much the better. The enemy is then forced to try to deal with that Rhino or soak up a pair of flamer hits every turn, which ruin most infantry's day. If they manage to destroy the Rhino, they're left with a squad of Assault Marines (for whom having their vehicle blow up while they're inside it is about as dangerous as a pillow fight). If the Rhino is wrecked, it can live on to shield the marines from anti-infantry fire for the rest of the opponent's turn. Then on your turn, the Assault Marines are probably still close enough to wreak havoc on the unit they were harassing with flamers, so they can hop in, fire off a few more shots, and then start an assault. A very big and very costly delay for an enemy unit, all told.

[greatcrusade08]

They have thier uses like JK said, if you dont want them as your dedicated combat unit they can be used to some effect. But for ultimate CC punch they need jump packs.

My themed 3rd co force is going to have an assault squad sans jump packs in drop pod with mikael fabian for a recreation of BFM (Ultra fans will be familiar). Im doing this for the theme as opposed to actual combat prowess.

 

GC08

[foster]

You could have a couple of assualt squads running behind thier empty Rhino's to avoid being shot at, essentially running a cheaper version of spearhead tactic (free rhino's). However I find using predators as the best cover because of their 13 front armour and the assualt squads get to keep thier jump packs (favorate tactic among Blood Angel players).

 

Maybe this can be a good way to give transports to 10 man Scout Units, could even let us use a Scout version of the Rhino Rush tactic with extra 5 man assault squads on foot as support. It may get expensive when kitted out but 240pts for basic 10 Scouts, 5 Assualt Marines and a Rhino do you guys think it's worth the cost?

[greatcrusade08]

It could work, using the scouts to rapid fire the enemy whilst the assault troops catch up and do the meaty work..

 

Give it a try :D

 

GC08

[foster]

I thought you might like it Crusade since you go for bolter scout squads. Might be better and slightly cheaper to use basic tactical squads for Rhino rush tactics, but an additional 5 assualt marines could tip the Scout rush to thier favour. I'm eager to hear how well they perform.

 

I not sure about Scout transport rules when in Rhino's, or if they can even be in one when deployed. Needs to be further discussed before playtesting me thinks.

[greatcrusade08]

Scouts cannot deploy in another units dedicated transport, but CAN use thier scout move to board it, so it makes little difference in the long run...

 

GC08

[Giga]

Assault marines in a rhino?

 

I dunno. 10 assault marines with 2 flamers and power fist is 235 pts... and all they can do on the turn they disembark is shoot two flamers and 8 bolt pistol shots... After this the opponent can run out of assault range, or just shoot the hell out of them. Potentially if the opponent stays there it's alright, but how many opponent's are going to do that?

 

I sort of think tacticals are better suited in a rhino. Not only can they deal considerably more damage at a greater range after they disembark, they can also cost less and are scoring.

 

Assault marines in a land raider though... that wouldn't be half-bad.

[Borinar]

It is not an entirely bad idea to bring assault marines in a rhino...

 

Likely only if you bring 5-6 and a free rhino coupled with a 10 man tactical with a razorback then simply board the others transports (given you deployed them properly) turn 1. Thus you obtain a free transport as well as an okay CC unit with a very cheap TL heavy botler. So you save 35 points for a transport allowing you to take more men or upgrades elsewhere. If you did it three times you can save 105 points which is a throw away dread or a pair of attack bikes or even a really tricked out dakka pred.

[Top Secret]

I have always loved the idea of Assault Marines in a Land Raider. It seems like they would be better against horde, while TH/SS Termies would be better vs elites.

[greatcrusade08]

You should try assault scouts in a LR, cheap and effective :blink:

 

GC08

[Brother Tual]

ermm - assault marines in a rhino does work.. almost the same speed as using jump packs but arguably a little safer... and why would you get out unless you can assault in the same turn?

 

move the rhino 12 inches and pop smoke.. dont get out - the rhino takes the hits with a 4+ cover save.. next turn you disembark before the rhino moves (2 inches) and then move your marines 6' and then assault, you loose 4 inches in total over the same max movement from jump packs but your 10 boys cant die unless they pop your rhino and then have something left to shoot at you disembarked marines.. you can do the exact same thing with tactical marines though with less attacks..

 

 

The down side is that you loose continued movement as it is harder to leap from combat to combat as you have to loose a turn to re-embark and then move on... But normally the initial target should be the killer blow that you need to win..

 

A bonus to this unit is as Giga suggested in using them as a mobile BBQ - something you cant really do with infantry as they get locked in combat...

 

I suppose the biggest thing to consider is what you have in your list - if you dont get first turn and your rhino is trying to do it solo, chances are your boys are walking... not sooo great - but if you can hide or shield your rhino for a starting second turn it could be a good little tactic..

[greatcrusade08]

move the rhino 12 inches and pop smoke.. dont get out - the rhino takes the hits with a 4+ cover save.. next turn you disembark before the rhino moves (2 inches) and then move your marines 6' and then assault, you loose 4 inches in total over the same max movement from jump packs but your 10 boys cant die unless they pop your rhino and then have something left to shoot at you disembarked marines.. you can do the exact same thing with tactical marines though with less attacks..

You can do this?

 

I honestly though if you disembarked from a rhino you couldnt assault that turn, but if it didnt move it doesnt count???

 

Cool. ;)

 

GC08

[Gornall]

Yup... you can debark, move, shoot, and assault from a vehicle that hasn't moved (including pivoting BTW). It's a beautiful tactic.

[rockdeity]

can you flamer drive-by from a rhino? I always thought that was verboten since it means you have to place the template over the rhino, and that is a friendly model, disallowing its use.

[Gornall]

can you flamer drive-by from a rhino? I always thought that was verboten since it means you have to place the template over the rhino, and that is a friendly model, disallowing its use.

 

Depends on who/where you play I figure. My group allows it, but I don't know what a tournament ruling would be like. (Probably wouldn't let you)

[Cedric]

Turret mounted flamers on Razorbacks and Immolators would be useless if this was enforced, which I doubt was the intention.

[Gyson_Vore]

For tactics and application, you could talk to any Local Space Wolf Players, as Blood Claws are in essance the same thing, though with a lower weapon skill. For assaulting your best option would be to disembark them from it and walk them up behind it. If you could get them into a LR of some sorts it would be even better. Just my thoughts on it.

[rockdeity]

Turret mounted flamers on Razorbacks and Immolators would be useless if this was enforced, which I doubt was the intention.

 

yeah, but then it's the actual vehicle shooting. This is a different unit, which just happens to be inside it. I wouldn't count on being able to do it in a tourney or anything. RAW to me is that you can't.

[jeffersonian000]

A unit firing from inside of a vehicle counts as the vehicle firing, except that line of fire is drawn from the fire point, you use the balistic skill of the firer, the target can be different from the vehicle, the firer counts as having moved if the vehicle moves, and the firer cannot fire if the vehicle moved over 6".

 

This means that a template weapon can be fired from a vehicle with a firing point as if the fire point was a vehicle mounted weapon, thus ignoring any issues of the template covering itself.

 

SJ

[waaanial00]

A unit firing from inside of a vehicle counts as the vehicle firing, except that line of fire is drawn from the fire point, you use the balistic skill of the firer, the target can be different from the vehicle, the firer counts as having moved if the vehicle moves, and the firer cannot fire if the vehicle moved over 6".

 

This means that a template weapon can be fired from a vehicle with a firing point as if the fire point was a vehicle mounted weapon, thus ignoring any issues of the template covering itself.

 

SJ

 

 

Technically wrong. It does not count as the vehicle firing otherwise all firing would count in the vehicle firing chart (explanation of what I mean: A Razorback moves 6" and can only fire its Heavy Bolter and all S4 Defensive Weapons - using your interpretation only S4 Bolters could be used). I am agreeing with you in principle, you should be able to fire flamers from a top hatch, however your explanation and reasoning is wrong.

 

It is an entirely different thing for models inside a transport to fire than it is for vehicle mounted weapons to fire because of all the exceptions.

 

Dont forget that if you upgrade to a Razorback you are losing out on firing points, so a Rhino is actually a better way of doing a drive by. Add in another storm bolter and you can actually pump out a shocking amount of fire power. Take a Razorback and you can only fire the Razorback weapons.

 

Wan

[Ming]

Rules for template weapons (flamers) are not placed at the top hatch but from the edge of the hull. That said, a demi-assault squad in a Rhino can give you a hell-hound wannabee. HOWEVER - drive that near a horde of orks with a hidden powerclaw, and you are going to die inside your own toaster. Strength 10 powerclaw hits with the rest of the orks holding the doors shut is a bad way to go.