Drop Pod VS Rhino

[Dread Wolf Master]

It's time for me to make a desicission and focus my army on one or the other, but i can't make up my mind. Because i've mainly been fighting orks, there was little need to move around alot, just let those bastards come to my bolters. But i need to expand my hunt and i don't know what would work better. so far i got one of each, so i'm really looking on some expeance regarding the matter.

[hendrik]

against orks droppods work wonderfull as far as i know but mechanised coud work too

what other armies will you be fighting or will it be almost nothing but orks?

[JEFF4i]

Drop Pods! I loves me drop pods!

[WG Vrox]

I am actually a big fan of both, I bring 1 DP and have a heavy hitting GH pack in a Rhino and a defensive objective holding unit in a RB.

 

I don't see one type of list having that much of an advantage over the other. Against army types sure, but for general play it comes down to what your putting into the pod, rhinos.....

 

So with that in mind, it comes down to play style for most folks. I would suggest you proxy a list with your Rhino force and 1 with a DP force, play them against a couple different types of lists and make your decision from there.

 

WG Vrox.

[Wolf Lord Mjolnir]

I have been thinking this over lately.

 

I really can only see one advantage of using a rhino over a drop pod and that is knowing exactly where they will be positioned but I don;t think much of this.

 

A drop pod allows your guys to get in your enemies face quickly. You cannot assault the turn you disembark with both anyway.

 

I think I will be running with a five drop pod list soon. Two dreads (one ironclad) and a rock hard elite unit of some type landing in the first turn in your enemies face kicks ass!

 

Mjol

[SeanyPrawny]

I gave up on pods after trying to make 1, though i love my rhinos :P

[JEFF4i]

I gave up on pods after trying to make 1, though i love my rhinos :P

 

The plastics are pretty easy. Course when you've made...8, it becomes easy, I have the plastics down to assembling in 25 minutes.

[Ullr Direfang]

i haven't used my pods as much as i thought i would. it could be the people around here but having the ability to move squads around after the rhino has dropped off the first unit has helped. i have repositioned a few GH squads and saved a few games. can't do that with a pod, but usually you are going to drop your pods where you need them, so moving after wont be a big deal.

[JEFF4i]

That's another note, I'm not timid with my pods. Don't get me wrong, I usually have a Rhino anyway with Hunters in it for versatility, but I still love going all-pods.

 

Rhinos/Razorbacks and Long Fangs work better than LF in Drop Pod though.

[dietrich]

Both have advantages and disadvantages. Assuming that SW get a 35-point Rhino in the new codex, I think Rhino is a little better (in general) - provided you take a bunch (with maybe some razorbacks mixed in). With a rhino, you can Tank Shock (and hopefully, have a flamer handy) into units, and you can re-embark. Also, any unit can use any rhino (assuming they fit). But, Pods can you close to an enemy initially. And, there is nothing to stop you from fielding both in a list.

 

If I have termies in the list, I'm more inclined to put them and a couple packs of GHs in pods. If I don't have termies, I'm more inclined to go with rhinos.

[JEFF4i]

Both have advantages and disadvantages. Assuming that SW get a 35-point Rhino in the new codex, ...

 

We get them for 35 points now. Print out the French or German FAQ, says it right there, and each FAQ is meant to be all-inclusive.

 

So it is a matter of preference and point:

 

Rhino=10 models, dismebark, re-embark, mobile, tank shock, hunter-killer missile.

 

Drop Pod=12 Models, static, 2d6 scatter, can be placed anywhere, only 50% come out in first turn, storm bolter, and my personal favorite...a great road block. Seriously, get drop pods in the roads on city-fighting...its glorious!

 

Both sweet in different ways.

[Wolf Guard Hengist]

For me my Troop choices go in Rhinos heres why. In my standard list I run 3 troop choices which consist of 2 x 6 man GH packs and a 10 Strong Blood Claw pack. In quite a few games that I have won my Grey Hunters have not even dismebarked from the Rhinos yet have still contributed greatly to the game. Stick an extra Storm Bolter on the Rhino and have two guys pop up through the hatches you've got 8 bolter shots at anything within 12", if theres a tank nearby the meltagun pops out of the hatch or the Plasma pistols if theres some tough armour to crack. I give my Rhinos Dozerblades because I like to tank shock a lot, its brilliant tank shocking a unit out of cover and then gunning them down in the open.

 

My Rhinos work in a pair one with GH's in and one packed with Blood Claws if correctly used I get two lots of smoke by leap frogging the Rhinos and getting both a cover save. Once on an objective my GH Rhino will sit on it and probably not move for the rest of the game, if they want me off they have to crack the shell then deal with the hard nuts inside. Dont get me wrong I do use drop pods but not for my troop choices I much rather have some mpbility for them instead of a one shot deployment and then stuck on foot.

[dietrich]

Both have advantages and disadvantages. Assuming that SW get a 35-point Rhino in the new codex, ...

We get them for 35 points now. Print out the French or German FAQ, says it right there, and each FAQ is meant to be all-inclusive.

Sorry, I don't live in France or Germany, and I don't have tourney organizers that use a foreign language FAQ. While I agree, it's not in the english FAQ, which means it's, at best, a grey area in the US, and, at worst, a 50-point rhino. I think the 35-point rhino is the cleanest way to go, I don't think you can count on using it. In fact, by RAW from the first printing of the SW codex, you get a 50-point rhino that no one else can ride in. Last tourney, the TO ruled it was 50 point rhinos, and I won't argue with a TO over that point. Like a number of things, the FAQ is not as clear as it could or should be or was intended to be - like whether SWs can field a Land Raider Redeemer or Ironclad Dreadnaught.

[JEFF4i]

Both have advantages and disadvantages. Assuming that SW get a 35-point Rhino in the new codex, ...

We get them for 35 points now. Print out the French or German FAQ, says it right there, and each FAQ is meant to be all-inclusive.

Sorry, I don't live in France or Germany, and I don't have tourney organizers that use a foreign language FAQ. While I agree, it's not in the english FAQ, which means it's, at best, a grey area in the US, and, at worst, a 50-point rhino. I think the 35-point rhino is the cleanest way to go, I don't think you can count on using it. In fact, by RAW from the first printing of the SW codex, you get a 50-point rhino that no one else can ride in. Last tourney, the TO ruled it was 50 point rhinos, and I won't argue with a TO over that point. Like a number of things, the FAQ is not as clear as it could or should be or was intended to be - like whether SWs can field a Land Raider Redeemer or Ironclad Dreadnaught.

 

Okay, I think you misunderstand the situation.

 

When I say all-inclusive, I mean they are universal, the language is simply the medium. Games Workshop doesn't mean for the Rhino to be fielded as 35 points in France and 50 in England, it was a mistake on their part. FAQ is FAQ is FAQ, again, the language is a medium here.

 

The FAQ to the Space Wolf Codex is like Amendments to the Constitution (to the American lot here anyway, not sure on British legal system). The FAQ changes our Codex, and if one says we can take something at a certain point cost, then it overrides whatever the Codex said.

 

Due to this, we are easily allowed to take the Ironclad or Land Raider. Why? And I quote, "Use the points costs and rules from Codex: Space Marine for Dreadnoughts, Land Speeders, Attack Bikes, Whirlwinds, Predators, Land Raiders, and Vindicators." (Codex: Space Wolves FAQ, Games Workshop, 2005). If any TO says that a Space Wolf cannot field the LRR or Ironclad, they are wrong. This isn't a disputable point, no gray area, we can take them, bottom line.

 

Trying to find my link for the German or French FAQ, maybe someone else can find it easier, my favorites is swamped.

[dietrich]

I get your point, dude. I don't disagree that SWs should be fielding the 35-point rhino. But, it's not crystal clear. The SW codex, SW FAQ, and new SM Codex are a mess. It does matter what language it is printed in - since the English-language version is the only one that I'm using. Sorry, if I have to pull out an FAQ in a foreign language - Epic Fail on GW (which, is pretty obvious, but worth repeating). If it was a mistake by GW, then they need to fix it (oh, wait, this is GW, they don't do that).

 

Lastly, Tourney Organizers are not wrong. It's their tourney, they can use the house rules that they want. If you don't like it, you can run your own tourney.

 

As was pointed out by Inquisitor Badwrongfun on dakka, no where is the Land Raider Redeemer or Ironclad Dread defined as a 'variant'. Sure, I think it's pretty RAI that they are, but it's not defined anywhere as such (oddly, the LRC is).

 

Which again, is why I caution everyone that the current SW codex (which even has stealth changes between the two printings, stealth change meaning they've never said what they were in the errata), the SM codex, and the SW FAQ is a bit of a mess. Be reasonable - there's some cheese you can pull out of the SW codex. Don't bring an army full of cheddar and expect someone to go along with fielding an LRR or a 35-pt rhino. If you're going to a tourney, check with the tourney organizer beforehand. If it's your friendly local gaming club, work it out beforehand.

 

If you plan to field 4 rhinos or razorbacks, you're looking at 60+ points in cost. That's an attack bike with a multi-melta and some change. It is a huge difference. This is the problem with playing with an out of date codex that is a hodge-podge of references. Heck, some of the wargear just doesn't work anymore.

[muzzyman1981]

I love Drop Pods myself and since you play against Orks I would take Deathwind MLs if possible, they can be devistating especially against Orks.

[JEFF4i]

I get your point, dude. I don't disagree that SWs should be fielding the 35-point rhino. But, it's not crystal clear. The SW codex, SW FAQ, and new SM Codex are a mess. It does matter what language it is printed in - since the English-language version is the only one that I'm using. Sorry, if I have to pull out an FAQ in a foreign language - Epic Fail on GW (which, is pretty obvious, but worth repeating). If it was a mistake by GW, then they need to fix it (oh, wait, this is GW, they don't do that).

 

Lastly, Tourney Organizers are not wrong. It's their tourney, they can use the house rules that they want. If you don't like it, you can run your own tourney.

 

As was pointed out by Inquisitor Badwrongfun on dakka, no where is the Land Raider Redeemer or Ironclad Dread defined as a 'variant'. Sure, I think it's pretty RAI that they are, but it's not defined anywhere as such (oddly, the LRC is).

 

Which again, is why I caution everyone that the current SW codex (which even has stealth changes between the two printings, stealth change meaning they've never said what they were in the errata), the SM codex, and the SW FAQ is a bit of a mess. Be reasonable - there's some cheese you can pull out of the SW codex. Don't bring an army full of cheddar and expect someone to go along with fielding an LRR or a 35-pt rhino. If you're going to a tourney, check with the tourney organizer beforehand. If it's your friendly local gaming club, work it out beforehand.

 

If you plan to field 4 rhinos or razorbacks, you're looking at 60+ points in cost. That's an attack bike with a multi-melta and some change. It is a huge difference. This is the problem with playing with an out of date codex that is a hodge-podge of references. Heck, some of the wargear just doesn't work anymore.

 

 

Sorry if I come off a little strong on this one, but had this argument with someone once, ;) Yeah, its mostly epic fail on GW part not putting it in their primary language. I still stand by it for reasons explained (and have won arguments with my logic), but I got ya.

 

Well, I stand that TO's are wrong if they feel that they are going strictly by the rules when they aren't. If he says, "we'll call this a house rule," fine, cool, whatever, but I nitpick on things like that when the game is equally finite.

 

As far as Ironclads, check out pg.65 in your SM Codex. All Dreds are listed in the same box, that pretty assuredly works them together, Dreadnought being the genus, and the subsequents being the species. Variants for sure.

 

Yes, it doesn't say that the Land Raider Redeemer is a LAND RAIDER variant, but c'mon, anyone trying to deny you one is stretching as far as humanly possible in something that is logically unsound. And if they go with the RAW approach, the judgement could go either way, deferring to pragmatic logic, which errs on our side. Obviously not every exhibits logic in our gaming groups, but I'd leave or not play said opponent if they acted that way.

 

Rhinos I'll give to a TO if they really push it, but the others? No way.

[Yeti]

I am actually a big fan of both, I bring 1 DP and have a heavy hitting GH pack in a Rhino and a defensive objective holding unit in a RB.

 

I don't see one type of list having that much of an advantage over the other. Against army types sure, but for general play it comes down to what your putting into the pod, rhinos.....

 

So with that in mind, it comes down to play style for most folks. I would suggest you proxy a list with your Rhino force and 1 with a DP force, play them against a couple different types of lists and make your decision from there.

 

WG Vrox.

 

100% agree with WG Vrox. The best way to find out what you like is to playtest it and see if it fits your style.

 

Personally, I play mechanized, so it's rhinos all the way for me. With boat loads of vehicles on the table (5 tanks, two dreads and two speeders at 1850), I tend to saturate my opponent's ability to take down vehicles, so the rhinos often get spared until they're almost on top of the enemy ... and by then it's too late. :P

 

I'm planning on playtesting a list with one drop pod in it though. I plan on using it as a more reliable version of OBEL scouts ... with more firepower. Drop it on the enemies flank in/near his DZ and have fun. If I can get off a charge, it'll kick butt ... if not, they'll soak up so much firepower that the rest of the army will be spared.

[wolf lord123]

though i normally love a good drop podding army, remember, your playing orks. thay can be very nasty in close combat... a simple squad of 25 boys gets 75 att on the charge... i would definitally take the rhino against orks... you shouldn't be in a rush to get in combat with the orks because the will rip u apart...

[Grey Mage]

Eh, once I got three drop pods I decided that was enough. One, theyre pricey and it adds up fast.... secondly, rhinos come in more handy on larger tables believe it or not. Especially when you play tell people need to leave like my group does.

 

Now, if you play on something smaller than an 8x4 drop pods come back up a few notches... but I still say buy a razorback kit, and just dont glue down the top hatches... you get a rhino and a razorback that way.

[Kadaeux]

You don't get to make that cool whistling "incoming" sound with Rhino's when they appear on the table.

 

:)

[Grey Mage]

No, but you can vroom vroom for several turns, and have something to be angry about when your enemy finally imobilizes it :).

[saphius]

For me my Troop choices go in Rhinos heres why. In my standard list I run 3 troop choices which consist of 2 x 6 man GH packs and a 10 Strong Blood Claw pack. In quite a few games that I have won my Grey Hunters have not even dismebarked from the Rhinos yet have still contributed greatly to the game. Stick an extra Storm Bolter on the Rhino and have two guys pop up through the hatches you've got 8 bolter shots at anything within 12", if theres a tank nearby the meltagun pops out of the hatch or the Plasma pistols if theres some tough armour to crack. I give my Rhinos Dozerblades because I like to tank shock a lot, its brilliant tank shocking a unit out of cover and then gunning them down in the open.

 

My Rhinos work in a pair one with GH's in and one packed with Blood Claws if correctly used I get two lots of smoke by leap frogging the Rhinos and getting both a cover save. Once on an objective my GH Rhino will sit on it and probably not move for the rest of the game, if they want me off they have to crack the shell then deal with the hard nuts inside. Dont get me wrong I do use drop pods but not for my troop choices I much rather have some mpbility for them instead of a one shot deployment and then stuck on foot.

 

-Why would you use Rhino's if your running squads of six? - Go with a RB with HB at least... - Bigger guns, better range, carries your whole unit. You don't have hatches, but I'll swap hatches for a HB anyday. - You can always get out and shoot all your guns.

[JEFF4i]

though i normally love a good drop podding army, remember, your playing orks. thay can be very nasty in close combat... a simple squad of 25 boys gets 75 att on the charge... i would definitally take the rhino against orks... you shouldn't be in a rush to get in combat with the orks because the will rip u apart...

 

I don't know, 74 attacks on my Terminator Squad a week ago didn't take one casualty, but I finished them off pretty well.

[Grey Mage]

Both have advantages and disadvantages. Assuming that SW get a 35-point Rhino in the new codex, ...

We get them for 35 points now. Print out the French or German FAQ, says it right there, and each FAQ is meant to be all-inclusive.

Sorry, I don't live in France or Germany, and I don't have tourney organizers that use a foreign language FAQ. While I agree, it's not in the english FAQ, which means it's, at best, a grey area in the US, and, at worst, a 50-point rhino. I think the 35-point rhino is the cleanest way to go, I don't think you can count on using it. In fact, by RAW from the first printing of the SW codex, you get a 50-point rhino that no one else can ride in. Last tourney, the TO ruled it was 50 point rhinos, and I won't argue with a TO over that point. Like a number of things, the FAQ is not as clear as it could or should be or was intended to be - like whether SWs can field a Land Raider Redeemer or Ironclad Dreadnaught.

Only Bloodclaw rhinos are unit-specific. Note that that silly rule is only in their entry, none of the other places you can nab a rhino. So GHs, LFs, etc can all swap to their hearts content.

 

Probly because we want to know exactly whos responsible for that mess on the rug.