Shadow Captain Shrike

[Rekky]

Hi all, its been a while since i have posted or even had much to do with 40k, and have decided to get back into it. I had a game the other day and decided i wanted to use Shrike to get a first turn massace on some tau.

 

Now, correct me if i am wrong, (and my opponent did try to say i couldnt do this, and he may have been right but neither of use could find a definate quote in the rule book about this. so we rolled it off and i won it!), but under Shrikes rules it says "he and the squad in his squad benefit from the infiltrate special rules". So combined with the quote indepedant characters "can begin the game already with a unit by being deployed in coherency with them". I decided to infiltrate a 10 man assualt squad lead by shrike 18" from my enemy, so with jump and fleet and assualt its easily possible to make an assualt in the first turn. B)

 

This is were it could go one of 2 ways, he said the unit needs deploying first meaning it cannot infiltrate, while i said it just says by deploying in cohency with the unit. So deploying both at the same time is ok.

 

Again, these both apply to the outflanking ability, as he isnt deployed on the board with the unit, is he able to join the unit off the board? If he isnt able to do either of these then why give him the See But Remain Unseen special rule. :huh:

 

Any views on this would greatly be appreciated!

 

Rekky

[JamesI]

Everything you did was legal. Shrike can join the unit before the game, can infiltrate to just over 18 inches away. Move in 12, fleet in at least 1, charge.

[==Me==]

Yep, very potent combo. All your opponent needs to do is leave a bait unit out to draw you in, let you slaughter it, and light you up.

[Combo]

its obviously meant to be a legal move as alot of shrikes rules revolve around doing it. You can see in his design that this was obviously one of the main tactics he was meant to achieve. Any ambiquity in the rules should be countered by common sense. "Well what DID Gamesworkshop mean to do with these rules?" in which case it becomes obvious. Especially considering that Space Marines are such a new codex.

 

Anyone argueing against this is arguing on a grey area in the rules, and against sporting spirit and common sense. The Majority of them would let this go without a second thought if it wasnt such a potent combination, thats the only reason they try so hard to argue against what is obviously legal.

[Timferius]

Wait, what would be the point of giving infiltrate to a squad he's with, if his squad couldn't use infiltrate? I don't get people who argue rules that are so obviously meant to work a specific way. Obviously it wouldn't mention the squad getting infiltrate if the squad couldn't use it at the beginning of the game.

[Souchan]

Wait, what would be the point of giving infiltrate to a squad he's with, if his squad couldn't use infiltrate? I don't get people who argue rules that are so obviously meant to work a specific way. Obviously it wouldn't mention the squad getting infiltrate if the squad couldn't use it at the beginning of the game.

 

It's a side effect of taking RAW too far in a game that wasn't made with RAW in mind. RAW is great for base meanings of special rules, but when delicate timings and things like this become involved, well they aren't considered in the slightest, as opposed to a game like Magic which is very detailed on those.

[Frosty the Pyro]

Wait, what would be the point of giving infiltrate to a squad he's with, if his squad couldn't use infiltrate? I don't get people who argue rules that are so obviously meant to work a specific way. Obviously it wouldn't mention the squad getting infiltrate if the squad couldn't use it at the beginning of the game.

 

 

Actualy he could still use the outfank part when a unit is held in reserves you must declare how it will enter and what it will be attached with/embarked in. So even with the interpritation that wouldnt let him "infiltrate" with a squad, which can be a technicly correct interpretation if rather silly, he would still be able to outflank. It would be that Shrike is stealthy enouph to sneak right in front of the enemy, but not enouph to get his freinds to do the same, yet still stealthy enouph to get his freinds to sneak around the enemy.

[Mycroft Holmes]

This is a perfect example of why it's good to always have a copy of the rules with you and a suffient knowlege of the rules to be able to point out basic rule issues.

 

At Adepticon I had to show why a DeffDread taken as Troop doesn't count as scoring. Knowing where to look for the rule probably saved us 10min of argument.

 

Mycroft

[Souchan]

Wait, what would be the point of giving infiltrate to a squad he's with, if his squad couldn't use infiltrate? I don't get people who argue rules that are so obviously meant to work a specific way. Obviously it wouldn't mention the squad getting infiltrate if the squad couldn't use it at the beginning of the game.

 

 

Actualy he could still use the outfank part when a unit is held in reserves you must declare how it will enter and what it will be attached with/embarked in. So even with the interpritation that wouldnt let him "infiltrate" with a squad, which can be a technicly correct interpretation if rather silly, he would still be able to outflank. It would be that Shrike is stealthy enouph to sneak right in front of the enemy, but not enouph to get his freinds to do the same, yet still stealthy enouph to get his freinds to sneak around the enemy.

 

In that case, they would have probably just called it Outflank like with Khan. I just get the feeling that when they thought of it, they never even conceived of people making an issue about deployment timing. The game just isn't written that way.