Whirlwinds

[waaanial00]

Hi there,

 

Due to a mix up I ended up with a Whirlwind instead of a Vindicator (long story and essentially boils down to a large order and being distracted by lots of drop pods). Now being the nice guy that I am and considering that it was exactly the same amount of £'s I just went with it and to be honest I am finding that the damn thing is really good.

 

Every game my Whirlwind seems to be able to put a lot of hurt onto the enemy without ever getting shot at. It seems to do well against Hoards and MEQ (being able to put a large number of S5 hits on MEQ means that save wounds get through).

 

This has got me thinking, especially as many peoples army lists dont appear to have them, is it just luck that makes me value my Whirlwind? Have many people tried and discounted this cheap tank? I originally scoffed at its low strength but to be honest I wont go into battle without it at the moment.

 

Wan

[Gaz1858]

I love them personally. Ive never had one in my list due to how i play but ive been on the receiving end of a few and they are very annoying!!!! Im trying to fit one into my current army though for fun.

[yergerjo]

I was running a pair for quite a while, but have sacrificed them for the rhinos at present...They can do some great damage...ignore A Big Mek's KFF, destroy Eldar Rangers/Pathfinders in cover...in those cases anything hit just dies...

[JamesI]

I guess I have the opposite luck. I've fired a whirlwind into the center of an Ork horde (100+ models) for 3 turns in a row and gotten a grand total of 2 killed Orks.

[Jangalak]

Yeah I just added a Whirlwind to my force and got a direct hit which wiped out two IG Troop squads first turn (after the survivors ran off the table edge retreating). At the moment it is the most deadly part of my army.

He managed to hit it once with a missle but that just put it out of ation for a turn. Getting it in good cover seems essential.

[ShinyRhino]

A Whirlwind has been a staple of my force since I first started playing. They are only as good as your dice rolls, though.

Mine either obliterate everything with deadly accurate hits, or are useless lumps, scattering massively off target to no effect.

Multiple Whirlwinds are really nice, I've been told. I've only ever fielded one at a time.

[JamesI]

A Whirlwind has been a staple of my force since I first started playing. They are only as good as your dice rolls, though.

Mine either obliterate everything with deadly accurate hits, or are useless lumps, scattering massively off target to no effect.

Multiple Whirlwinds are really nice, I've been told. I've only ever fielded one at a time.

In 4th edition, I fielded 2 almost every game. In 5th, not any more.

[F. A. Chapter Master]

I've had one with me for the past 3 games (1200-1500points) VS Nidz, a prime target most would say...

But as some said it's only as good as your dices.

 

in a total of 16 turns it's only scored 3 hits thus wounding 2 warriors and sucker punched a Zoanthrope.

So out it goes and in comes a DAKKA PRED!

[Gaz1858]

Yeh the main downside of a Whirlwind is the fact a Dakka pred is the same cost. Either 1 ordnance attack at S5 AP4 or 2 S7 AP4 and 6S5 AP4 shots, that cant scatter!!! AV13 aswell is a big point

[kaiserstole20]

I'm a fan of whirlwinds. Against hordes it absolutely chews them up especially when run in pairs. For an 'all comers' list, I prefer a Vindicator in that Heavy slot. Vindicators are the solution to all of life's most annoying problems, such as Nob Bikerz and Plague Marines.

[pryor]

I love my whirlwind because although it's mediocre at killing things it seems that as soon as I start throwing pie plates around it becomes a prime target. I can't stop laughing when my opponent tries to do everything in their power to wipe out this hidden tank. The whirlwind once survived a game after 3 turns of flanks attacks by a pair of tau piranhas(?) with fusion guns musc to my delight.

[Brother Gathurn]

Wa it a little speeder thing. Because that means its a pirahna. And I absoutly love mine. I don't know about two I only own 1.

[DevianID]

As others have said, its not so much that the whirlwind is bad, its that the cost and heavy slot contain so many better options...

 

The solution would be, of course, to lower the cost to ~65, and allow squadrons of 1-3. Now they are a respectable heavy choice, along the lines of the amazing new griffon that the IG gets. Without that, though, the benefits versus the overall meta game are not worth it--low armor, high cost, slow speed, easy kill point, not really that long of a range, not that scary versus tough targets or any vehicle, very inaccurate for a space marine heavy weapon system, ect ect.

[robdark1]

my god quit crying over a whirlwind it 85 point and on top of that it been giving to space marines. wow that something to think about marine are a strike force based idea fluff army and having squadrons of back up support would be a little much for a elite of the elite army in 40k also if were going that way with armor i want squardons of vincidators in my army so i can lay down lot of templete at str 10 ap 2. heck for the 85 points you getting a darn near cheap heavly bolter if you ask me. so no matter how they die or what there worth it depends on the player and the prefense that he wants in the army that he solo creates for him self. no matter how you look at or spin it that whirlwind is a good vechle to me and i would run there in an army any day of the week against anyone.

[LIONS_SPEAK]

What can I say Whirlwinds are great for the cost. In most of my games they are ignored as a minor annoyance but when that pie plate hits it becomes an 85 point big distraction. Its a must in my all comers list.

[waaanial00]

From the consensus it does seem that my Whirlwind is a bit lucky then. I dont mind as others have said it is useful enough to keep in my allcomers and I really dont see the 85 point value as too much, especially when it can fire effectively every turn and against the hoard it will nearly always hit something. Against small elite units I forsee having issues hitting much but in those situations every failed armour save is going to count for that much more.

 

Thanks for the replies it has been helpful to learn that it isnt as good in the long run as it has been but I still wont part with it, not only do I not have a Dakka Pred but I like the possible damage that it can inflict even if it doesnt live up to it.

 

Still dont understand why it doesnt draw any fire though. Maybe it will start doing so soon.

 

Wan

[robdark1]

other than seening mosting people ingore the blasted thing i really dont like when an opp has ordance that even str 5 just because it he has the ability not to shot at for a whole 2 turns if you ask me. also whirlwind being guess weapon with a direct fire rules on top of that really make it a steal or a bargan for what there getting away with now days. i would really like to play against someone who runs a outflanking force with three of thoese things and hope he could beat me playing that kinda of list.

 

be here to dreaming about thing that are foolsih.

[ShinyRhino]

other than seening mosting people ingore the blasted thing i really dont like when an opp has ordance that even str 5 just because it he has the ability not to shot at for a whole 2 turns if you ask me. also whirlwind being guess weapon with a direct fire rules on top of that really make it a steal or a bargan for what there getting away with now days. i would really like to play against someone who runs a outflanking force with three of thoese things and hope he could beat me playing that kinda of list.

 

be here to dreaming about thing that are foolsih.

 

There are no more Guess weapons in the Marine list in 5th Edition. Perhaps you mean "Ornance, Barrage"? GW is phasing Guess weapons out of all the codex books. Out-dated rule.

 

Anyhow, a triple-Whirlie list is dangerous, as long as you defend them properly. You need some sort of cover against anti-tank fire, and maybe a speedbump to keep assaulting troops away from it. Just remember that even three pie plates fired int he same spot can all still scatter off-target. Rub your dice with some shamrock juice before the game or something, lol.

[General Retreat]

I've used a Whirlwind (only one, unfortunately) to great effect. In smaller points battles, especially, it rocks. I love my large pie plates, so I take single Vindicator, and a Whirlwind as my default heavy choices in anything 1000-1750. My favorite time using the WW was against an Eldar Aspect horde. I kept firing at Dire Avengers and killing Harlequins marching beside them. My little 85 point pie-tosser made about 500 points in kills on stuff sneaking up on me out of LOS to the rest of my gunline, and was the real reason I won that game. I've also watched it murder orks wholesale, even 'Ardboys, with AP4. It was also the only answer I needed to pathfinders in cover; remember, if you use the indirect method and land the hole in the marker inside cover, it denies cover to that unit, or, you can just use the S4 AP5 blast to ignore cover anyway.

 

In short, it's done great things for me, and only failed occationally. Of course, I'm the kind of wacko that still swears by the Tri-Las Annihilator despite the new cost.

[robdark1]

well if everything in small point game were so great than you should be able to do the same thing in a 1750 or even a 2000 point list. there no other way that someone would really break the mold on running three whirlwinds unless you thinking of running a vindicator for front line support that ends up takening the third support slot with two whirlwinds altoghter. i think so much so that people really would know how to handle a 2 str 5 and then a str 10 pie plate that hit up to three units turn depending if ther still alie at the end of there tur n.

[CompanyOfTheFallen]

Seems there are quite a lot of WW fans out there. Well, I'm not. I used to play one, then two and after I played 3 of them vs. an orc footslogga army I kicked them out of my list entirely. They didn't manage to get half of their points in in any of the games. Guess its just bad luck but usually I hit 3-5 orcs, wounding and killing 2 which are a total of 12 points each round...

[Martellus]

Seems there are quite a lot of WW fans out there. Well, I'm not. I used to play one, then two and after I played 3 of them vs. an orc footslogga army I kicked them out of my list entirely. They didn't manage to get half of their points in in any of the games. Guess its just bad luck but usually I hit 3-5 orcs, wounding and killing 2 which are a total of 12 points each round...

 

+++I'd chalk that up to bad luck from placement and deviation rolls. With most horde type armies, you should be able to earn your points back especially if you concentrate fire against a single target. This reinforcing effect is typically sufficient to neutralize large footslogging units in one or two turns especially if they are out in the open. If not, the incendiary missiles are effective against most units in cover.

 

However, I'm not a big fan of the "all-Whirlwind" heavy support option. Vindicators seem to command more fear and respect due to their main armament while the Whirlwind is overlooked since it doesn't have that instant death capability.

 

Martellus+++

[glsn]

one thing people seem to be forgetting is that it is a barrage weapon, when the enemy takes a wound he has to take a pinning test at -1 (ordnance). Admittedly, this rarely happens against space marines or necron or anything similiar, but in one game the Whirlwind managed one wound on a necron squad of 15. They were pinned and didn't get to rapid-fire the Grey Knigt Terminators that had deep struck right next to them.

[Iron_Chaos_Brute]

Try 3 with 9 Attack bikes.

[Olesh]

one thing people seem to be forgetting is that it is a barrage weapon, when the enemy takes a wound he has to take a pinning test at -1 (ordnance). Admittedly, this rarely happens against space marines or necron or anything similiar, but in one game the Whirlwind managed one wound on a necron squad of 15. They were pinned and didn't get to rapid-fire the Grey Knigt Terminators that had deep struck right next to them.

 

From an effectiveness standpoint, I will always recommend a thunderfire over a whirlwind. The whirlwind is, in limited fashion, superior because it can ignore cover and the standard 5+ armor save simultaneously while having a large blast and pinning, but the thunderfire will nflict greater casualties on average with the volume of fire and higher strength shots. Also, if the cannon gets wrecked, you have a techmarine with servo-harness which is still useful.