ShinyRhino Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 I used a basic Libby with Machine Curse and Force Dome in a tourney this past weekend. Machine Curse works a treat, I tells ya! In every game, I attached the Librarian to my "tank killer" tactical squad, which was armed with las/plas, 10 strong (obviously). I also had Sicarius in the army, and was assigning Tank Hunters to this tactical squad. Game one was against a beautifully painted mechanized Sisters army. Lots of Rhinos, a couple Immolators, and an Exorcist. It was a killpoints mission, so I made popping all the armor my main priority. Machine Curse was wonderful. Every time a tank made it near my hunter squad, I threw the "upgunned" (via Tank Hunters) las/plas and the Machine Curse shots at it. Machine Curse is only a glancing hit, but it messed up the opponent's shooting and/or maneuvering with every hit. I was taking stormbolters off, shaking the crew of the Immolators, etc. There was little in the way of retalitory fire, as the Sisters lacked long-range fire. I'd immobilized the Exorcist on the second turn, and it was not rolling well for its rocket count or wounds. Game two was against Orks. The army only contained two Trukks, and two squads of paired Kans. Machine Curse was largely useless, and I went more for Force Dome here to protect against the sheer volume of attacks. Game three was against brother Marines. Machine Curse was GREAT against Landspeeders. The 24" range surprised them, and I landed immobilizing hits on both. Overall, Machine Curse is my new favorite Librarian power. Opponents don't hear much about it, instead expecting Gate of Infinity. When I explained what the Curse did, there wasn't much fear of it. Folks also forget about the wonderful 24" range of this power. You can effectively reach half the board with it, depending on setup. The thing I really liked about it was that you went right past the armor penetration roll, which is where I always flub my attacks against vehicles. The Librarian has a 50% hance to hit, just like other Marines. Then straight to glancing. Sure, it won't explode a Landraider, but it will slow it down some. It can also bust up the main gun on a Vindicator or Predator, or immediately ground a Landspeeder. It's also great against walkers. However, the foil to the power looks to be Extra Armour. This upgrade nullifies 25% of your glancing hit rolls, and allows the targeted vehicle to keep moving every turn. Machine Curse is also less effective against a vehicle with a lot of weapons on it, say a Predator with sponsons and a stormbolter. It takes a lot more glancing hits to knock out all that weaponry. But, to mitigate thatm it helps to attach the Librarian to a dedicated anti-vehicle unit. My las/plas tactical was a nice compliment to the Libby. He was able to lend Force Dome on turns where no vehicles were within his 24" striking range, keeping the lascannon going for much longer. A Librarian on a bike would also have been a nice compliment to my tank-hunting bike squad with paired meltaguns and a multimelta attack bike. i can see himalso being a nice boost to a 4-heavy weapon Devastator squad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warprat Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 Nice report! Who would have thought Machine Curse would be that good? Was Force Dome the great complimentary power you thought it would be, or would you have chose something different? Also, about Tank Hunters, would a melta gun have worked better, or was the better range of the plasma gun more important? What was your mode of transport? Anything you would do differently to make these guys even more effective? Thanks! Warprat ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShinyRhino Posted April 22, 2009 Author Share Posted April 22, 2009 Nice report! Who would have thought Machine Curse would be that good? Was Force Dome the great complimentary power you thought it would be, or would you have chose something different? Also, about Tank Hunters, would a melta gun have worked better, or was the better range of the plasma gun more important? What was your mode of transport? Anything you would do differently to make these guys even more effective? Well, I felt Force Dome was the best complimentary power for the role I had my Librarian filling. Sure, an assault-range power might have been useful if anything got to within attacking range of him or the Tactical squad, but I was planning my mutual support around the squad. I kept a squad of Assault Marines handy in game 3, lots of supporting small arms in game 2, and placed the squad up on a hill in the center in game 1. Dome allows you to get some saves against infantry-killer shots (plasma, shokk attak guns, rockets, etc). Anti-tank squads tend to attract fire like a magnet that way. I skipped the meltagun in the squad, mostly because of the range. I didn't want anything within 12" of the squad. Clogging approaches with vehicle wrecks and making counter assault units available helped me do that. The 24" single shot of the plasmagun went nicely with the Curse, too. I had no transport for these guys. They were my defensive line/home base unit. As such, they weren't moving around much. I'd like to try this same tactic with the librarian attached to a 4-heavy Dev squad, but am not sure he'd be of as much use there with Machine Curse. All the heavy weapons have longer ranges, and more chances to stop vehicles before they reach 24" range. Plus, they're not scoring. I'll probably try several more games with this setup, to see if it was just a fluke, or if Curse is really that nice. I need a wider variety of test opponents, as well. I really want to put these guys against Necrons, Tau, and Eldar. Machine Curse is obviously useless against Daemons and Nids, which is a risk you run selecting such powers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warprat Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 Nice report! Who would have thought Machine Curse would be that good? Was Force Dome the great complimentary power you thought it would be, or would you have chose something different? Also, about Tank Hunters, would a melta gun have worked better, or was the better range of the plasma gun more important? What was your mode of transport? Anything you would do differently to make these guys even more effective? Well, I felt Force Dome was the best complimentary power for the role I had my Librarian filling. Sure, an assault-range power might have been useful if anything got to within attacking range of him or the Tactical squad, but I was planning my mutual support around the squad. I kept a squad of Assault Marines handy in game 3, lots of supporting small arms in game 2, and placed the squad up on a hill in the center in game 1. Dome allows you to get some saves against infantry-killer shots (plasma, shokk attak guns, rockets, etc). Anti-tank squads tend to attract fire like a magnet that way. I skipped the meltagun in the squad, mostly because of the range. I didn't want anything within 12" of the squad. Clogging approaches with vehicle wrecks and making counter assault units available helped me do that. The 24" single shot of the plasmagun went nicely with the Curse, too. I had no transport for these guys. They were my defensive line/home base unit. As such, they weren't moving around much. I'd like to try this same tactic with the librarian attached to a 4-heavy Dev squad, but am not sure he'd be of as much use there with Machine Curse. All the heavy weapons have longer ranges, and more chances to stop vehicles before they reach 24" range. Plus, they're not scoring. I'll probably try several more games with this setup, to see if it was just a fluke, or if Curse is really that nice. I need a wider variety of test opponents, as well. I really want to put these guys against Necrons, Tau, and Eldar. Machine Curse is obviously useless against Daemons and Nids, which is a risk you run selecting such powers. Aside from Sternguard, this dex never fails to have suttle uses for units that just keep popping up... Anyway, I was thinking Votex or Gate would be an interesting addition, with melta gun, combi-meltas, las cannon and drop pod. But Dome seems great, especially for a defending Tac squad... Seems like enemy skimmers would really hate this guy. Eldar and Tau, I'm looking at you! Wonder if it would work on Monoliths? I agree about the Devs, you would really like them to match up together, but they just don't seem too (closest would be multi-melta). How about Legion of the Damned (I would love to find a good use for them!)? *Great Save, so you don't need Dome. *Can take a hvy, and fire on the turn they arrive and move. *Bolters can fire at 24". *Would work well with Gate. *Good Melee. Warprat ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gornall Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 Anyway, I was thinking Votex or Gate would be an interesting addition, with melta gun, combi-meltas, las cannon and drop pod. But Dome seems great, especially for a defending Tac squad... Seems like enemy skimmers would really hate this guy. Eldar and Tau, I'm looking at you! Wonder if it would work on Monoliths? I agree about the Devs, you would really like them to match up together, but they just don't seem too (closest would be multi-melta). How about Legion of the Damned (I would love to find a good use for them!)? *Great Save, so you don't need Dome. *Can take a hvy, and fire on the turn they arrive and move. *Bolters can fire at 24". *Would work well with Gate. *Good Melee. Warprat :P LotD with GotI does sound like fun... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Tual Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 LoTD with gate would be great - but how do you get him in the unit? You have to run a libby in termy armour so he can deep strike with them? Would their re- roll scatter dice work with gate? that could be truely handy given the short range of melta weapons.. and a Powerfist look slike a good buy for the sergeant - he has WS 5... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waaanial00 Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 Slight diversion because I just thought about it, LOTD + Lysander. Can already deepstrike, rerolls Bolter and Heavy Bolter shots and because they are relentless they can then charge on in (not on turn they deepstrike I think). Their 3+ invulnerable is compatible with Lysanders. Makes for a very expensive unit but it will be very killy (may have to do this in a friendly game). On topic I think Machine Curse is a very good power, especially against enemies which attack you with AV13+ tanks. Reason being that you can effectively glance them without having to roll for armour penetration which is what causes a lot of hassle. I think a better use of this would be have him in a rhino with a true anti tank combat squad (Power Fist and Melta) that way you can Curse a vehicle on the move and melta when it is 12" to slow it down then cast Might of the Ancients and charge in the next turn to cause some really nasty havoc (imobile in the last turn means automatic hits with S6 2D6 pen, 3 power fist attacks and 4 Krak grenades). Noone would expect this of a single Rhino with Librarian in toe, another thing I will have to try in my next friendly. Wan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyescrossed Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 The Librarian has a 50% hance to hit, just like other Marines. :) Marines have a 2/3 chance to hit, which is 66%, not 50%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShinyRhino Posted April 23, 2009 Author Share Posted April 23, 2009 On topic I think Machine Curse is a very good power, especially against enemies which attack you with AV13+ tanks. Reason being that you can effectively glance them without having to roll for armour penetration which is what causes a lot of hassle. I think a better use of this would be have him in a rhino with a true anti tank combat squad (Power Fist and Melta) that way you can Curse a vehicle on the move and melta when it is 12" to slow it down then cast Might of the Ancients and charge in the next turn to cause some really nasty havoc (imobile in the last turn means automatic hits with S6 2D6 pen, 3 power fist attacks and 4 Krak grenades). Noone would expect this of a single Rhino with Librarian in toe, another thing I will have to try in my next friendly. Not a bad idea, but somewhat overly complicated for my tastes. It relies on a three-turn string of hits and results that you may not get, or may have disrupted by other units. Worth trying, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warprat Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 LoTD with gate would be great - but how do you get him in the unit? You have to run a libby in termy armour so he can deep strike with them? Would their re- roll scatter dice work with gate? that could be truely handy given the short range of melta weapons.. and a Powerfist look slike a good buy for the sergeant - he has WS 5... I don't think they would be able to initially Deep Strike in together. Rather the Librarian would have to start out on the table with another unit, then jump to where the LoTD come in at. Further, I don't believe the LoTD AND the Librarian would be able to use the scatter reroll together. But, I would love to be wrong on this! I suppose a counter argument could be made that since the IC can be assigned to units in reserve, that an IC could be assigned to a LoTD as well. Never mind that the Librarian would teleport in vs. the mysterious deepstrike of the LoTD, they are both deepstrike. I suppose the re-roll would depend on which model is placed on the table to determine scatter. Place the Librarian first and there is no re-roll, place a LoTD model first then the re-roll can be used. Of course a re-roll also means there is a second chance for a double one warp mishap, which would only be fair... Warprat ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Tual Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 @ Warprat - I dont know - just throwing it out there - It doesnt say that the LOTD cant be joined by IC's so I assume you can - and like you said - as long as they are alll deep striking I see it no different than a bunch of termies and an IC in termy armour deep striking rules wise... With the re-roll, you only re-roll the scatter dice... not numbered dice - same with twin linked blast weapons.. you only get to re-roll the directional scatter dice... Still though - a very expensive unit for a re-roll - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gornall Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 @ Warprat - I dont know - just throwing it out there - It doesnt say that the LOTD cant be joined by IC's so I assume you can - and like you said - as long as they are alll deep striking I see it no different than a bunch of termies and an IC in termy armour deep striking rules wise... With the re-roll, you only re-roll the scatter dice... not numbered dice - same with twin linked blast weapons.. you only get to re-roll the directional scatter dice... Still though - a very expensive unit for a re-roll - It's not the reroll that you're paying so much for though... It's the fact that they can deepstrike in and start off with heavy weaponry shots and the 3+ invulnerable. I don't see why you couldn't deepstrike an IC with them. However, if you attach an IC, then I could possibly see losing the reroll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffersonian000 Posted April 29, 2009 Share Posted April 29, 2009 Actually, all three dice are re-rolled when you re-roll for scatter per pg 30 of the BRB, be it a blast template or a Deep Strike. SJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firedrake28 Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 Alternatively you could just take a Librarian with a jump pack instead. It's a fair bit cheaper than Terminator armor and still lets you Deep Strike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warprat Posted May 2, 2009 Share Posted May 2, 2009 Alternatively you could just take a Librarian with a jump pack instead. It's a fair bit cheaper than Terminator armor and still lets you Deep Strike. Good point, and you would gain a nice movement bonus for HtH combat. Warprat ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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