Stormbolters

[Gentlemanloser]

Very incorrect. ALL Pistols are clearly labeled as Pistols. They'll say, after the Range, Strength, and AP value such a thing as Pistol, Assault, Rapid Fire, etc and a number. Pistols are always Pistols. Pistols are always normal (ie, single-handed) close combat weapons. There isn't a problem with the current rules.

 

Ignore me! LoL! Seem's like the Pistol Category still exits. :tu:

 

Another nail in the coffin for the NS giving an extra attack in CC!

[JamesI]

Why did GW clarify in their FAQ that the neural shredder is one-handed then? It makes no difference to its use as a ranged weapon (it's a template weapon), but it would matter in close-combat (because the phase sword is the other weapon the Callidus has).

 

When GW first wrote that clarification, it was 4th edition. In 4th edition the rules just said 2 single handed weapons. The NS gave the +1 attack last edition, but unless it is FAQed to either be a pistol or to give the +1 attack, right now it doesn't.

[Praeger]

Exactly.

 

Before relying on FAQ's as proof it is always a good idea to look at their release date.....iv got some great FAQ showing how Orks will retreat towards vehicles and then regroup :D

[Gentlemanloser]

I seriously thought GW had got rid of the Pistol category. :D

 

So now all Pistols are Assault 1 weapons, but not all Assault 1 weapons are Pistols. :)

 

I'd like to hammer the final nail in this. Where is the rule that a one handed weapon must be a Pistol, or stated as useable in CC for it to give the extra attack? It is only the line on Pg 42?

[Isiah]

Pistols are stated as being assault-capable (ie as potentially granting a 1+ attack) on p29 of the BRB. They are also stated as being single-handed there too and capable of being used with another cc weapon.

 

 

Cheers

I

[Reclusiarch Darius]

When GW first wrote that clarification, it was 4th edition. In 4th edition the rules just said 2 single handed weapons. The NS gave the +1 attack last edition, but unless it is FAQed to either be a pistol or to give the +1 attack, right now it doesn't.

 

No, the clarification first appeared in the most recent FAQ, which was written with 5th edition in mind (ie they say in a short blurb at the beginning 'with the advent of 5th edition, stuff has changed, yada yada'). It seems like the only reason they'd bother saying 'the neural shredder is single-handed' is so you could combine it with the phase blade (which people had been arguing about prior to the FAQ being released, as it doesn't say in the Callidus entry).

 

Exactly.

 

Before relying on FAQ's as proof it is always a good idea to look at their release date.....iv got some great FAQ showing how Orks will retreat towards vehicles and then regroup msn-wink.gif

 

But it's the 5th edition FAQ, clear as day. Again, why would they bother, unless it somehow changed the usage of the neural shredder in close-combat? (Handedness, we can all agree, has no bearing on shooting with a weapon).

 

Your Ork FAQ is probably for 3rd edition Orks, lol :)

I'd like to hammer the final nail in this. Where is the rule that a one handed weapon must be a Pistol, or stated as useable in CC for it to give the extra attack? It is only the line on Pg 42?

 

Nowhere. There are two categories essentially;

 

- Pistols (which are single-handed weapons, and are explicitly stated as counting as single-handed close-combat weapons)

- Single-handed weapons (most of which are close-combat only, but the neural shredder and a few DE weapons also fall into the category of singe-handed gun)

[JamesI]

When GW first wrote that clarification, it was 4th edition. In 4th edition the rules just said 2 single handed weapons. The NS gave the +1 attack last edition, but unless it is FAQed to either be a pistol or to give the +1 attack, right now it doesn't.

 

No, the clarification first appeared in the most recent FAQ, which was written with 5th edition in mind (ie they say in a short blurb at the beginning 'with the advent of 5th edition, stuff has changed, yada yada'). It seems like the only reason they'd bother saying 'the neural shredder is single-handed' is so you could combine it with the phase blade (which people had been arguing about prior to the FAQ being released, as it doesn't say in the Callidus entry).

 

No. That question and answer appeared in the 4th edition FAQ. They left it in in the 5th FAQ, but it has no meaning now.

[Reglor]

When GW first wrote that clarification, it was 4th edition. In 4th edition the rules just said 2 single handed weapons. The NS gave the +1 attack last edition, but unless it is FAQed to either be a pistol or to give the +1 attack, right now it doesn't.

 

No, the clarification first appeared in the most recent FAQ, which was written with 5th edition in mind (ie they say in a short blurb at the beginning 'with the advent of 5th edition, stuff has changed, yada yada'). It seems like the only reason they'd bother saying 'the neural shredder is single-handed' is so you could combine it with the phase blade (which people had been arguing about prior to the FAQ being released, as it doesn't say in the Callidus entry).

 

No. That question and answer appeared in the 4th edition FAQ. They left it in in the 5th FAQ, but it has no meaning now.

 

I still have my 4th editioni FAQs and that question is not in either of the Inquisition FAQs.

[DevianID]

It doesn't matter. You're still ignoring pgs 28 and 29, which only say that Pistols can be used in close combat.

 

The point I want to make is that if a codex has a rule saying a ranged weapons has some kind of handedness or other close combat rule attached to it, then it WILL apply to close combat. Pistols are the only thing in the BRB that can be used in close combat, HOWEVER, in other codexs they override this.

 

If you want examples, the kroot rifle is a rapid fire weapon, but grants +1 attack in close combat. If the BRB rule about pistols was absolute then its a shame they cant use the kroot rifle anymore because its not a pistol. Also, the Eldar singing spear is an assault 1 12 inch range 2 handed weapon, but it also would not be able to be used in close combat as it is a non-pistol shooting weapon.

 

Now, dont get me wrong, I am not trying to say that the BRB pistol rule for close combat is wrong. HOWEVER, if a codex amends a shooting attack to also have a close combat property, or vice versa, then it is a specific rule that overrides the general rule that only pistols can be used in close combat. Thus, the Neural Shredder, which was amended to have (what in 5th amounts to) a close combat rule, that it is a one handed weapon, this overrides the normal exception that shooting weapons are not able to be used for close combat.

 

HOWEVER, for the OP, which somehow is getting glossed over, the storm bolter has NO rule in the space marine codex that would amend the normal rules for only a pistol counting as a weapon. If the storm bolter instead said "Storm bolters are one-handed weapons" then this would be a different argument, more like the neural shredder argument. But, for the OP's sake, I think we should all be able to agree that storm bolters will not grant a bonus attack in CC.

 

Does anyone have a reason to disagree that Stormbolters will not grant a bonus attack in CC?

[Seahawk]

ranged weapons has some kind of handedness or other close combat rule attached to it, then it WILL apply to close combat.

No, it won't. Now you're neglecting pg 42 here. "Some models are equipped with two single-handed weapons they can use in close combat." A single-handed ranged weapon cannot be used in close combat unless it has the Pistol special rule, simple as that. Remember, you need "two normal close combat weapons," not a "single-handed non-pistol weapon and a normal close combat weapon." Pistols are counted as normal close combat weapons.

 

If you want examples, the kroot rifle is a rapid fire weapon, but grants +1 attack in close combat.

It has a special rule that allows that. Thus, codex provides exception to the norm. I don't have the codex, but I know it's a special rule.

 

the Eldar singing spear is an assault 1 12 inch range 2 handed weapon

"The spear can be used in close combat, but it requires two hands and so the wielder cannot gain the extra attack..." Again, this is a codex special rule, and so is ignored for the stormbolter example.

 

Thus, the Neural Shredder, which was amended to have (what in 5th amounts to) a close combat rule, that it is a one handed weapon, this overrides the normal exception that shooting weapons are not able to be used for close combat.

No, no it does not. So, if some rule said a bolter was one handed, you'd try to claim a +1 attack? It says it's a one-handed weapon, not specifying ranged or close combat. Therefore, since it doesn't specifically say "one-handed close combat weapon," it is not a close combat weapon; it's an Assault-class ranged weapon. It doesn't matter what previous edition it was written for. This is 5th edition. The rules are what they are. Sucks for me too, because I have a beautifully painted Callidus that's been chillin' on the shelves since then.

Storm bolters are one-handed weapons" then this would be a different argument, more like the neural shredder argument

Which is still moot because of the above and the BRB.

Otherwise, I think we're in agreement?

[DevianID]

I are cornfused... I say 'if a codex has a rule saying a ranged weapons has some kind of handedness or other close combat rule attached to it, then it WILL apply to close combat.' But then you say...

No, it won't. Now you're neglecting pg 42 here. A single-handed ranged weapon cannot be used in close combat unless it has the Pistol special rule, simple as that.

but then you say

It has a special rule that allows that. Thus, codex provides exception to the norm.

 

Didn't I already say that? Perhaps we are not on the same page?

 

Also, on the NS topic, I read the NS as an exception to the pistol rule just like the kroot rifle. The neural shredder has a special rule stating it is a one handed weapon. A special weapon and a one handed weapon grant a bonus attack. If the neural shredder did not have the FAQ stating it was a one handed weapon, then it would not get the bonus. Handedness has no bearing whatsoever on shooting attacks, and this was also true in 4th edition, thus 'not specifying ranged or close combat' was not needed--especially as the named character model can not be modified in any way. Thus, the only reason to label the NS as a one handed weapon was to gain a bonus attack, as labeling it a one handed shooting weapon has no relevance to the game in any way.

[Seahawk]

Just because a ranged weapon is 1 handed, it doesn't mean it automatically counts as a normal close combat weapon. It needs to be a Pistol. That's what I was saying. The codex specifically says that the Kroot gun gives +1 attack for whatever reasoning, but not because it turns a rapid fire weapon into a pistol. Now you're back to ignoring pages 28 and 29 again and the distinctions they give us ;) .

 

A special weapon and a one handed weapon grant a bonus attack.

Very incorrect for this context. For a one handed weapon to give the bonus, it must first have the capability to be used in close combat as a normal close combat weapon, as I've stated. An Assault weapon (storm bolter, neural shredder) is not a Pistol, and only Pistols have the capability to be used in close combat as a normal close combat weapon. Thus, Assault weapons cannot be used to gain +1 attack in close combat, even if they are one handed. One handed or two, unless it has a special rule that says it can be used in close combat (such as the kroot gun and singing spear, good examples) it can't.

 

Thus, the only reason to label the NS as a one handed weapon was to gain a bonus attack, as labeling it a one handed shooting weapon has no relevance to the game in any way.

Unfortunately, since they didn't say it was a one-handed close combat weapon, what they wrote was indeed entirely pointless. But then, GW is known to do that. Including saying that their FAQ's aren't actually official, just the errata parts.

 

Here're a few good flow charts for determining whether you can use a weapon in close combat for an extra attack:

 

Ranged Weapon:

- Is its type Pistol? Y/N

- Does it have a special rule in the codex or errata (not FAQ) that allows it to be used in close combat? Y/N

- If any answered Yes, then Yes it can be used for +1 attack, otherwise No.

 

Normal or Special Close Combat Weapon:

- Does it say in the Codex, errata, or BRB the weapon is two-handed? Y/N

- Does it say in the Codex, errata, or BRB the weapon cannot be used with another normal or special close combat weapon? Y/N

- If any answered Yes, then No it can't be used for +1 attack, otherwise Yes.

[Gentlemanloser]

Does anyone have a reason to disagree that Stormbolters will not grant a bonus attack in CC?

 

Unless you're a Grey Knight of course. :D Which can use the 'Pistol' grip a Bolter (and Combi-Bolter in some cases, or the Wrist Mount for GK) in one hand, allowing the +1 Attack for being used alongside another CCW.

 

I always though, from a modeling POV, that it was strange that Terminators were modled as using 2 Handed Weapons in a single Hand, but couldn't use them in CC.

 

From a fluff POV, what difference is there in using two one handed weapons, or using two two handed weapons, if your suit of exo-powered TDA allows you to effectively weild a two handed weapon in one hand. But that's a fluff gripe, with nothing to do with the rules. :)

[Reclusiarch Darius]

I think we've all agreed storm bolters can't be combined with another weapon in close-combat, yes? Unless you're a Grey Knight, no dice.

 

@ Seahawk:

 

Any weapon can be used in close-combat, it doesn't have to explicitly state 'this is a close-combat weapon' in order to be used. GW say this in the Assault section (last page), where they give the example of rifle butts etc.

 

The pertinent question is what bonus will the weapon grant you in close-combat. By the rules:

 

- Some weapons are single-handed, some are two-handed (but this distinction only matters for the purposes of close-combat)

- If a model has 2x single-handed weapons, it gets +1A in close-combat. Pure and simple.

- The exception is if the single-handed weapon is a powerfist, chainfist, lightning claw or thunderhammer. In their cases, you need 'twins' ie a pair of them to get the +1A.

- The other restriction is if you have two special close-combat weapons; regardless of whether they are single-handed or two-handed, you have to choose between one or the other (with all it's bonuses and penalties), and you don't get the +1A.

 

Pistols are the most common type of single-handed weapon to be combined, but they're not the only kind. The BRB leaves it open as to what kinda of single-handed weapon you can combine (it can be special one-handed close-combat weapon+single-handed weapon, or two single-handed weapons).

[Seahawk]

Any weapon can be used in close-combat, it doesn't have to explicitly state 'this is a close-combat weapon' in order to be used. GW say this in the Assault section (last page), where they give the example of rifle butts etc

But the gun itself isn't "handy" enough (-_-) to be used in close combat; this would've been explained on pages 28, 29, and 42. The whole pistol can be used in close combat (though you ignore the strength and AP of the gun) and so it has the lucky distinction.

 

The pertinent question is what bonus will the weapon grant you in close-combat. By the rules

- If a model has 2x single-handed weapons, it gets +1A in close-combat. Pure and simple

(it can be special one-handed close-combat weapon+single-handed weapon, or two single-handed weapons).

Please, please start reading the entire page! Just because two single handed weapons (and one of them is a ranged one) it doesn't mean they get +1 attack. You need two Normal Close Combat Weapons, or a Normal [close combat weaon] and a Special Weapon, not just any two single-handed weapons. Pistols are the only ranged weapon that counts as a normal close combat weapon (with codex exceptions). Nowhere does it say that you can use any single-handed weapon (with no distinction) for an extra attack.

 

The reason that I'm adamant that only Pistols get the bonus is because that is exactly what they rules say. The rules don't say Assault, Rapid Fire, Heavy, or Ordnance weapons counts as Normal Close Combat Weapons. Only Pistols. It does say you can use those other weapons (with two hands) to poke and prod people. Just because there is a one-handed Assault weapon, it doesn't mean it gets the bonus. It is not a pistol.

 

I think you're getting confused by the wording on page 37, where it says "Engaged models with two single handed weapons (typically a close combat weapon and/or pistol in each hand)..." The legal combinations to get that bonus are explained on page 42, after which you can backtrack to 28 and 29 to see if any others there get the bonus. Those combinations don't include Assault weapons.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

But the gun itself isn't "handy" enough (teehee.gif) to be used in close combat; this would've been explained on pages 28, 29, and 42. The whole pistol can be used in close combat (though you ignore the strength and AP of the gun) and so it has the lucky distinction.

 

No, you do use the gun in close-combat, it just doesn't give any special bonuses (normally). You're beating them over the head with the rifle butt, a la the picture in the BRB of Marines using their empty bolters to cave in the skulls of Orks.

 

Please, please start reading the entire page! Just because two single handed weapons (and one of them is a ranged one) it doesn't mean they get +1 attack. You need two Normal Close Combat Weapons, or a Normal [close combat weaon] and a Special Weapon, not just any two single-handed weapons. Pistols are the only ranged weapon that counts as a normal close combat weapon (with codex exceptions). Nowhere does it say that you can use any single-handed weapon (with no distinction) for an extra attack.

 

You're inventing a restriction that isn't there. The following passages are verbatim from the BRB, stuff in brackets is my notes

 

'Normal Close Combat weapons:

- Weapons like chainswords, rifle butts, combat blades, bayonets, etc., do not confer any particular bonus to the model using them. Remember that, in close-combat, pistols count as normal close-combat weapons and so the Strength and AP is ignored.'

 

pg. 42, BRB, 2008

 

Hence, any weapon can be used in close-combat.

 

'Fighting with two single-handed weapons:

- Some models are equipped with two single-handed weapons they can use in close-combat (remember, any weapon can be used in close-combat), with the rules given below for the different possible combinations. Of course, if a model is using a two-handed close-combat weapon (such as a rifle's butt or a two-handed battle axe), it may not use it together with another weapon.'

 

pg. 42, BRB, 2008

 

Secondly, the BRB gives us the general rule that unless stated otherwise (by codex or FAQ), ranged weapons are assumed to be two-handed (see the part about rifle butts). Going back to the OP's question, a storm bolter falls into this category.

 

'- Two normal close-combat weapons: These models get one bonus attack

- Two of the same special weapon: These models gain one additional attack. All of their attacks, including the bonus attack, use the special weapon's bonuses and penalties

- A normal and a special weapon: These models gain one additional attack. All of their attacks, including the bonus attack, use the special weapon's bonuses and penalties'

 

pg. 42, BRB, 2008

 

Seeing as any weapon can be used in close-combat, and the neural shredder is FAQ'd to be single-handed (and the phase sword is also single-handed), the Callidus can combine the two and thus gain +1A (making her base number of attacks 4). The BRB doesn't say anything to the contrary of this.

 

I think you're getting caught up far too much in the 'pistol' category. It's meant to cover most single-handed guns (as you'd expect), but there are other single-handed guns strewn throughout the older codices. It's by no means a strict definition, GW just wanted to make it absolutely clear that;

 

A: Yes, you can combine your pistol and sword in close-combat

B: No, you don't get any of the pistol's bonuses (plasma pistol for example being AP2)

[Chengar Qordath]

In addition to Darius' post, it bears mentioning that the pistol entry on page 29 of the BRB never states that pistols are the only ranged weapon that counts as an additional close combat weapon, merely that they can be used as such.

[Gentlemanloser]

Hence, any weapon can be used in close-combat.

 

I disagree with this.

 

Rifle Butts and bayonets are fluff examples, that aren't existing wargear that I know of. It's like epxlaining that a mini can still attack in Cc, even if they don't have any wepaons. A good exmaple is a bog standard Inquisitor. No weapons, but he still gets his 2 (3 on the charge) S3 attacks in CC. This can be realised (or fluffed) as him punching, kicking, throwing debry, etc.

 

But none of it utilises a "Normal Close Combat Weapon". As he isn't equipped with such.

 

If any weapon can be used as a CCW (which they can't), then you can use Sniper Rifles and Reaper Assault Cannons as CCW. As nither have ever been designated a handidness, in any current rules, and aren't listed as being 2 Handed, they can be used as a single handed wepaon in CC right?

 

Especially as a Chaos Terminator is modeled as holding his Reaper Autocannon in one hand.

 

All shooting weapons, by defualt, are not listed *anywhere* as 2 Handed weapons. And if any weapon, by default, can be used in Close Combat, then we'd *have* to logically assume they fall under the "Normal Close Combat" weapon section quoted above, like Chainswords and Combat Blades.

 

Which either makes Chainswords and Combat Blades 2 handed, or Reaper Assault Cannons 1 Handed.

 

Either way, you've opened a can of worms that breaks the system. By assuming all weapons can be used in CC as 'Normal Close Combat Weapons'.

 

Secondly, the BRB gives us the general rule that unless stated otherwise (by codex or FAQ), ranged weapons are assumed to be two-handed (see the part about rifle butts).

 

What? No where does it assume all shooting weapons are 2 handed by default.

 

The 'Rifle Butt' would be an example of a Codex CCW that is called in it's entry a 2 Handed weapon.

 

That stipulation exists. But it doen't make it the Default. And a Rifle's Butt isn't a Shooting weapon. :lol:

 

Edit2:

 

In addition, the fluff exmaples given for normal close comabt wepaons (like Bayonets etc) are for Codexes with entries for "Close Combat Weapon" as a pice of wargear. So you can modle your mini using his bolter with an attached bayonet, to depict his Bolter and CCW wargear.

[DevianID]

Forget about the example of ranged weapons usually being 2 handed... they have no rule for 'handiness.' Shooting attacks do not automaticly count as one or two handed weapons unless they have a rule in the codex somewhere, with the exception of pistols.

If any weapon can be used as a CCW (which they can't), then you can use Sniper Rifles and Reaper Assault Cannons as CCW. As neither have ever been designated a handidness, in any current rules, and aren't listed as being 2 Handed, they can be used as a single handed wepaon in CC right?

I agree with you that sniper rifles and reaper assault cannons have no rule for use in close combat (they do not modify a models profile in CC in any way) however you can not call them either a one or two handed weapon, as they have no rule as such (regardless of how the model looks.)

 

Also, the chainsword is labeled in the marine book as a normal close combat weapon, thus you dont have to worry about people calling your chainsword a 2 handed weapon.

 

So in the end, there are 3 'types' of weapons in regards to 'hands:' There are 1 handed normal weapons, 2 handed weapons, and weapons that have no hands listed that neither count as a 1 handed weapon or a 2 handed weapon in close combat. So storm bolters are no handed weapons and do not modify a terminator's attacks in close combat, while the callidus has a special weapon and a one handed weapon, and thus gets +1 attack.

[Gentlemanloser]

This still ignores that no where does it state the NS can be used in CC.

 

If it can, then any weapon can be used in CC. Like Sniper Rifles and Reaper Auto Cannons. Giving it a handidness does not equal allowing it to be used in CC.

 

The NS isn't listed as a Normal Close Combat Weapon (or counts as one). It's not listed as any Type of Special close Combat Wepaon. It's not isted as giving an extra attack in CC. It's not listed as a Pistol.

 

It's just a Ranged Weapon.

 

Also, the chainsword is labeled in the marine book as a normal close combat weapon

 

This really.

 

It should be the answer to this thread. A Chainsword doesn't have a Handidness, but its defined in it's wargear entry as a normal close combat wepaon. Which like power wepaons, fists, lightnign claws, thunderhammers and Withcblade (and anything else I've missed), is defined in the Core Book.

 

The NS isn't labeled as a normal close combat weapon. So it *isn't* one.

[shatter]

Conventional termie sgt does not get extra attack. GWs BRB position is clear as they made the model with stormbolter clearly 1 handed. 'nuff said.

 

FAQ stating a particular codex entry was supposed to make a codex specific piece of wargear one handed was a clumsy attempt at saying 'pistol'/cc weapon. It further states specific consequence; THIS item gaining +1 cc attacks.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

I disagree with this.

 

Rifle Butts and bayonets are fluff examples, that aren't existing wargear that I know of. It's like epxlaining that a mini can still attack in Cc, even if they don't have any wepaons. A good exmaple is a bog standard Inquisitor. No weapons, but he still gets his 2 (3 on the charge) S3 attacks in CC. This can be realised (or fluffed) as him punching, kicking, throwing debry, etc.

 

But none of it utilises a "Normal Close Combat Weapon". As he isn't equipped with such.

 

I'll quote again, because you didn't appear to read it the first time;

 

'Normal close combat weapons:

 

Weapons like chainswords, rifle butts, combat blades, bayonets, etc. do not confer any particular bonus to the model using them. Remember that, in close-combat, pistols count as normal close-combat weapons and so the Strength and AP of the pistol is ignored'

 

pg. 42, BRB, 2008

 

It's not a fluff example, it's a clear rules distinction. You can use any weapon in close-combat, but only some grant bonuses (as defined in either the Assault section or in the relevant codex/FAQ entry).

 

If any weapon can be used as a CCW (which they can't), then you can use Sniper Rifles and Reaper Assault Cannons as CCW. As nither have ever been designated a handidness, in any current rules, and aren't listed as being 2 Handed, they can be used as a single handed wepaon in CC right?

 

No, because you can assume any weapon not listed as 'single-handed' to be 'two-handed'. The reason is because on the same page (I know, what are the odds?), it states;

 

'Fighting with two-single handed weapons:

 

Some models are equipped with two single-handed weapons they can use in close-combat, with the rules given below for the different possible combinations. Of course, if a model is using a two-handed close-combat weapon (such as a rifle's butt or a two-handed battle axe), it may not use it together with another weapon'

 

pg. 42, BRB, 2008

 

Especially as a Chaos Terminator is modeled as holding his Reaper Autocannon in one hand.

 

Modelling doesn't matter a wit, it's what the rules say.

Either way, you've opened a can of worms that breaks the system. By assuming all weapons can be used in CC as 'Normal Close Combat Weapons'.

 

No I haven't. It is this easy;

 

1. All weapons can be used in close-combat

2. Some are single-handed, some are two-handed

3. You need 2 x single-handed weapons to get the +1A bonus. The exceptions are powerfists etc, which require a 'twin' to get the same bonus Attack.

[Praeger]

Look, this really is simple.

 

By the FLUFF any weapon is used in combat. This is FLUFF that EXPLAINS the rule, not the rule itself.

 

By the RULE you must be armed with 2x weapons that COUNT AS SINGLE HANDED WEAPONS.

 

PISTOLS count as 1 handed weapons.

 

Nothing else matters (2 handed, 3 handed, ring finger, helmet cam, legs made from lascannons whatever)

 

So if it says one handed or pistol, then grab that extra dice, if it dosnt, then no go. Simple.

[Trekari]

Are you sure about the helmet cam thing? Seems to me they'd give you greater situational awareness and provide an extra attack of opportunity.

 

Just sayin' :P

[Gentlemanloser]

So if it says one handed or pistol, then grab that extra dice, if it dosnt, then no go. Simple.

 

You might want to clarify that. Or you've given the NS the extra attack. :drool:

 

No, because you can assume any weapon not listed as 'single-handed' to be 'two-handed'. The reason is because on the same page (I know, what are the odds?), it states;

 

Show me the wargear entry, in any book, for a Rifle Butt and I'll give you that example. There is *nothing* to suggest all weapons are two handed if not stated.

 

Actually, it's the converse.

 

All the in game 2 handed wepaons explicity state that. Eviscerators, Relic Blades, etc.

 

So I'll posit the actual only assumption is that any weapon is single handed, unless otherwise noted.

 

That has more logical rules backing than a bit of fluff aobut a non existant weapon (the rifle butt).

 

It's not a fluff example, it's a clear rules distinction.

 

It's fluff. Until you can find the Book entry for a Rifle Butt as wargear.