Considering normal CSM...

[Vertebrae]

I'm a World Eaters player but with the advent of 5th ed. and it's emphasis on objectives I've been considering mixing in other troop choices to sit on objectives.

 

My question is pretty simple: What is the most efficient build for CSM? Right now I'm thinking of using:

10X CSM

Heavy Bolter, Flamer, AC with TL Bolter and PW, and Icon of Chaos Glory.

 

They're role would be to objective sit, and while normally I am against taking a lot of wargear on ACs, I don't want them getting wiped by 1 round of assault.

 

Any thoughts?

[LuNCHBiZZLe]

If there gonna "sit" on the objective I would drop the flammer and add a rhino to get them there quick and us it as a "bunker" of sorts.

[Chaos Lord Shamrockius]

I agree with lunchbizzle. I think the only bonus to the flamer would be how many opposition models you can get under the template at a time. Maybe a Melta would be better, in case you have a dread decide he wants to rock up to the party and ruin the day for your new squad. But i definately agree with lunch for the Rhino.

Any idea of the chapter used for "fluff-relevancy"?

[Lord Humongous]

For objective camping, I'd suggest PMs, with or without rhino. Maybe give em 2 plasma or melta guns, and tool up the champ as you like. Plasma is better for camping, with the 24" range and fall back / double tap option.

Just paint you CSMs up properly nurgly. They may seem spendy, but 7 PMs can do the work of 10 CSMs with the ICG.

[JamesI]

Double plasmaguns would be better for a sit on objective unit. Still useful if you have to move.

[Redbaron997]

2 Plasma Guns, that way if the enemy is between 12-18 inches, you can still move forward to double tap them.

 

Taking a Heavy sacrifices your mobility, and that is bad.

[aberrant_unc]

If you are going to equip the squad with double plasma, there is no reason not to just take 7 plague marines over the 10 man CSM squad.

 

10 CSM + Chaos glory icon + 2 plasmaguns costs basically the same as 7 CSM + 2 plasmaguns and the 7 CSMs will be more survivable in 90% of situations.

[Citizen Snips]

It depends on whether you want to use them as defensive holders or offensive one's.

 

If it's for defensive, plague are always better. However, you can load out CSM for a cheaper price and get more bodies in. Playing defense, 2 plasma guns or a heavy weapon and plasma gun are your best bet. If you are going to have 10 men sit on a point, you may as well give them something to at least take shots at armor while sitting back. Las, missle, AC work great and it is basically a 10 wound heavy weapon. No one is ever going to waste shots on a unit with only 1 weapon in it unless they plan to be getting up to you to assault.

 

If you plan to go offensive, melta, flamer, fist are a very good combo. People may crap on the flamer, but it goes through cover. All those softy army's that put their crap unit in cover on an objective will get blown out. Melta will deal with any armor and the fists for anything that dares to melee you.

 

I rarely use CSM, but I when I do, I tend to play them offensively. Plague can hold any objective and can usually survive most anything that comes at them.

[Drudge Dreadnought]

The general convention for equipping CSM squads is to always use Chaos Glory, always take a powerfist champion, always take a rhino, never take a heavy weapon, and always take two of the same special weapon. The exception is melta+flamer. This combo is preferred by some but disliked by others. The argument around it is that awhile its nice for all comers, 1 melta won't reliably take out anything. If you want a flamer it is probably better to take double melta and a combi flamer on the champion.

 

As mentioned though, unless you are using them specifically for fluff reasons plague marines are going to be better 90% of the time. Remember that plague marines are essentially t5 terminators.

[chillin]

If you are going to equip the squad with double plasma, there is no reason not to just take 7 plague marines over the 10 man CSM squad.

 

10 CSM + Chaos glory icon + 2 plasmaguns costs basically the same as 7 CSM + 2 plasmaguns and the 7 CSMs will be more survivable in 90% of situations.

 

Until a couple of weeks ago I would have agreed with this.But I my last couple of games I have had 7 PM's and wished I had 10 csm's. Against some things, plasma, HQ PW attacks, Ord., for example more bodies are just better and the T5 and fnp really doesn't keep the PM's around anylonger. And the int.3 means the PM's don't even get to strike back anainst MEQ's in hth should they all get killed, at least my csm's would have taken a few with them.

Has anyone else noticed this or am I all on my own here ?

[Night Stalker]

Well, Powerfist champion is not mandatory in CSM squad. It is mandatory in Berzerker squad.

[Drudge Dreadnought]

Well, Powerfist champion is not mandatory in CSM squad. It is mandatory in Berzerker squad.

 

If you are expecting the squad to see close combat, yes it is. And for berserkers it isn't. Since they have furius charge they can be very succesful with a powerweapon instead when fighting meqs. Of course then they are vulnerable to walkers, but that isn't always going to be an issue.

[Night Stalker]

For 40 points you can buy other stuff.

 

Not every squad that will see close combat need a fist. Some squads deserve to shoot and die. Otherwise, i would just use berzerkers. +1WS and +1A and furious charge is better place for power fist.

 

Berzerkers are one dimensional and need to deal with all threats in close combat. So they should have counter avilable - power fist just happen to be *the* counter.

 

I play against best team in Europe from time to time, and i talk with them more often. I not newbie.

[the jeske]

If you are expecting the squad to see close combat, yes it is. And for berserkers it isn't. Since they have furius charge they can be very succesful with a powerweapon instead when fighting meqs. Of course then they are vulnerable to walkers, but that isn't always going to be an issue.

FC only works if you play a LR rush list . when you go around in rhinos [the 4 zerkers or2zerkers/2pms +oblits] FC is much harder to use and then fist is much better.

[Drudge Dreadnought]

If you are expecting the squad to see close combat, yes it is. And for berserkers it isn't. Since they have furius charge they can be very succesful with a powerweapon instead when fighting meqs. Of course then they are vulnerable to walkers, but that isn't always going to be an issue.

FC only works if you play a LR rush list . when you go around in rhinos [the 4 zerkers or2zerkers/2pms +oblits] FC is much harder to use and then fist is much better.

 

Yes.

[chaplain belisarius]

well, my murder legion take a pair of meltaguns, a powerfist for the aspiring champion and ride into battle in a rhino. Works very well for me!

[Corpse.]

If you sit them on opbjetives (and keep them slightly khornefluffy) plasma guns might be your choice. Otherwise a lascannon and plasma gun unit would be your objective sitters.

 

If you charge them forward, rhinos and all then two flamers or meltas are it. (Add the opposite gun to the rhino, combi flamer for two melta unit, combi-melta for a twin flamer unit, and dont forget combi's for your champ)

[LuNCHBiZZLe]

I run 10 man squads,icon of glory,2 melta,AC w/PF & combi-melta or flamer,and a rhino never have problems with taking/holding objectives and they still pack a punch for just normal "meat grinder" games.

[Captain Pugno]

for objective sitters i'd advise dual plasma - normally though for more aggresive units i'd take meltaguns

[Brother Blackbone]

I think some other factors should be considered:

 

- Don't like to use cult troops at all? Then your regular CSM should reflect what you are trying to accomplish with your Troop selections.

- Don't use Obliterators? Then someone needs to carry the heavy weapons.

 

Rhinos are cheap and regular CSM can be some of the cheapest Troops you can field. I personally field 1 unit of Plague Marines, 1 unit of Berzerkers, and a mess of Obliterators. Therefore, I use them for two things:

Close-range anti-armor - CSM x 10, melta x 2, IoC, Rhino with combi-melta.

Backup objective-sitting - CSM x 10, plasma x 2, IoC

 

Just some additional thoughts.

 

- Blackbone