Devastator or Predator?

[Huron]

With the new IG 'dex, my Fire Angels' lack of long-range anti-armor capability has become a critical weakness. I need to add some lascannons to tackle the inevitable Leman Russ squadrons, and could use some advice. This'll be my first choice from the Heavy Support section and I want to be sure I'm spending points efficiently + effectively.

 

Option 1: 5 man dev squad, 4 lascannons (230)

Pros: 2+ on one shot per turn, 4 total shots, better in assault than a tank, small target for tlos

Cons: vulnerable to shooting, immobile, expensive

Avg 2.83 hits/turn

 

Option 2: Predator Annihilator, las sponsons (165)

Pros: twin-linked on one shot, 13 front armor and smoke, more mobile than troops, cheap

Cons: large target for tlos, 3+ on all shots, only 3 shots, vulnerable to assault (armor 10...)

Avg 2.22 hits/turn (factoring in the TL turret)

 

Option 3: As above, with Sgt. Chronus (235)

Pros: as above, plus 2+ on all three shots, more survivable than standard pred

Cons: as above, plus expensive

Avg 2.63 hits/turn (factoring in the TL turret--97% to hit with this one with BS 5!)

 

 

So what's my best cost/benefit for popping a brace of Russes?

[rockdeity]

the cheapest lascannons are in tactical squads and sternguard squads (both 15 pts I think). After that is TLLC on razorbacks, probably. Lascannons in dev squads are pretty expensive. I don't see the upside unless you are really hurting on model count.

[Ming]

The value engineered judgement also depends on your typical game you play -

 

need to factor in:

 

1. Terrain you typically play in - both from cover and LOS standpoints

2. Types of games you play (annihilation or objectives)

 

I have the triple LC pred, and since I find I'm mostly playing in games with lots of cover ((d3+1 cover elements per 2x2 game table segment), against armies with rapid CC potential (orks or bike marines), I prefer now using 5-man devs. The pred was very expensive and could be easily killed.

 

That said, I am not running my LCs in the dev squads - I put them in the tacticals instead. My two dev squads are kitted differently (to make sure each has high S and Low AP capability: 3xML+1PC; and 3HB+1MM. Very efficient on points.

[Stanley Tweedle]

Predators annihilators - terribly overpriced, can no longer pivot in their shooting phase

Dreads with lascannons - not the best loadout for a dred, when it can have a MM for free or a cheap plasma cannon.

Devastators - overpriced, not mobile, not reliable

 

The only solution is to have lascannons in tac squads + lascannon razorbacks. If you go with preds/devastators its points sink in comparison to mobile multi-meltas.

[Gornall]

Wait... you can't pivot and shoot all your weapons? I thought that pivoting only mattered when embarking/disembarking transports.

[foster]

The question you should ask is; Deveastator Squad, Predator or Attack Bike Squadron. For 150pts you can have an extremly mobile anti-tank unit that that can move 12" and shoot 24". With toughness 5 and two wounds each they are as tough as a 10 man devastor devastator but with better mobilty than a Tank. I use them to great effect, having single bike units taking pot shots from cover into vehicles flank.

 

If you want even faster anti-tank you can take advantage of Scout units infiltrate ability to get at rear armour of vehicles and plant melta bombs automatically hitting tanks when they've not moved. Check out Scout Tactics posts for more information on which Scout unit would suit you.

 

These are the best units IMHO to use when tank hunting, but if you still want to have Lascannons I'd go with a couple of Razorbacks with your tacticals. Twin-linked lascannons are more reliable and can shoot at different units.

 

You could use a 5 man Sternguard Squad and give them a pair of Lascannons, they're 5pts cheaper than a 5 man devastator squad with the same gear. Could be useful if you want to save those Heavy slots for other units. BTW they count as scoring if you take Pedro Kantor as your commander. Just paint a devastator squad veteran like and you can pass them of as sternguard.

 

There are better units out there that can do a pred's and devastor squad job better, but if I had to choose I would take the devastator squad only becuase you can bring a Razorback with it.

[Gornall]

You could use a 5 man Sternguard Squad and give them a pair of Lascannons, they're 5pts cheaper than a 5 man devastator squad with the same gear. Could be useful if you want to save those Heavy slots for other units. BTW they count as scoring if you take Pedro Kantor as your commander. Just paint a devastator squad veteran like and you can pass them of as sternguard.

 

There are better units out there that can do a pred's and devastor squad job better, but if I had to choose I would take the devastator squad only becuase you can bring a Razorback with it.

 

I completely agree with the attack bikes. They're pretty awesome. Being able to get a 3+ cove save while closing to within MM range really helps. Yeah... hooking up a 5 man Dev or SGV Squad with a TLLC (or Assault Cannon even) Razorback is also a decent way to go too. Even a non-upgraded Razorback provides a very cheap TLHB platform that can focus on light/medium infantry while your squad tries to pop tanks or heavy infantry. You can have them both hang back and snipe at stuff, and use the Razorback to provide cover for the squad. If anyone outflanks or otherwise tries to rush the squad, load them up and scoot out of there. TBH, this is about the only way I would field a pimped out Razorback because otherwise it's spending too much time moving 12" and not firing, or it will get focused fired because it's not only a weapons platform, but also a transport and probably near the front lines. However, if it's simply hanging out in the back with a Dev/SGV squad, your opponent has to decide on whether to shoot the Razorback, the Devs/SGV, or whatever other transports/units you're shoving down his throat on the front lines. Anything that makes your opponent have to make tougher decisions is a win in my book.

[Stanley Tweedle]

Wait... you can't pivot and shoot all your weapons? I thought that pivoting only mattered when embarking/disembarking transports.

 

You can, but in the movement phase, not shooting phase, which limits your pivoting. E.g. you pivot 2 vehicles to destroy a single important target and you kill it with the first shot. Then the other vehicle doesnt shoot because it cant pivot in the shooting phase.

[Gornall]

Wait... you can't pivot and shoot all your weapons? I thought that pivoting only mattered when embarking/disembarking transports.

 

You can, but in the movement phase, not shooting phase, which limits your pivoting. E.g. you pivot 2 vehicles to destroy a single important target and you kill it with the first shot. Then all the rest of your guns dont shoot cause you cant pivot in the shooting phase

 

Ah. I see what you're saying. Scared me for a minute. :D

[ShinyRhino]

Wait... you can't pivot and shoot all your weapons? I thought that pivoting only mattered when embarking/disembarking transports.

 

You can, but in the movement phase, not shooting phase, which limits your pivoting. E.g. you pivot 2 vehicles to destroy a single important target and you kill it with the first shot. Then the other vehicle doesnt shoot because it cant pivot in the shooting phase.

 

The thing to ask here is: "How far are you pivoting to acquire that target?"

You can still rotate the turret and sponsons of a Predator, even after pivoting it in the movement phase. It would take one heck of a pivot move to completely silnce all three of your firing options.

[Gornall]

Yeah... generally worst-case you lose out on one sponson.

[rockdeity]

melta weapons are good too (attack bikes, MM speeders, combi-melta stern etc.), but sometimes you need the lascannons, both for the range and S9. Try taking down mecheldar with meltaweapons... taint happening. When you absolutely have to take something big down, if you're serious about it, you bring a lascannon. Especially if it can outmaneuver you.

[Warprat]

If your going to be fielding Terminators or some other CC squads, the Land Raider might not be so terrible. You get a very armored transport AND TL las cannons. A bit spendy though...

 

Also, a standard dread with TL las cannon and extra armor can hang out in a woods or ruin and gain a cover save. Put a Thunderfire cannon next to him, if the Techmarine survives he can repair the dread.

 

 

Warprat ;)

[Huron]

Wow, thanks guys--I think I understand the problem a lot more thoroughly now;-)

 

Going to try two different things: swap my shooty terms for a TH/SS squad, and add a 2 LC vanguard squad. If that doesn't do the trick, I'll continue the experiment...