Pig Iron tanks

[I AM THE AWESOME]

Wow, I've been contemplating getting some of those vehicles for a while, you've totally put me off the idea now - as theres no way I'd get them to look that good!

 

they aren't swastikas!!! Swastikas are turned on their side; almost like standing on their point. Otherwise they are a symbol of Buddha and the hindu religion.

 

Care to tell us what sanskrit word Buddhists and Hindus use to refer to that symbol? :P

 

Svastika, not Swastika!

 

Excellent models, excellent painting, and no worries on the Swastika. I realize the symbol causes offense with certain groups of people, but the symbol isn't by any means only a Nazi one. So I'm just going to say that if the symbol is indeed there to tie it in with the rest of your Marines, then be prepared for the worst.

[Marek Grimfang]

These tanks have totally grown on me. ITs nice to see something other than Rhinos and Chimeras all the time.

[Isiah]

Hmmm yet another post with bandwidth issuse – and again I feel I'm missing out – let's hope it's sorted soon.

 

Cheers

I

[Basilius]

Hmmm yet another post with bandwidth issuse – and again I feel I'm missing out – let's hope it's sorted soon.

 

Cheers

I

 

Its worth it Isiah - they really are cool.

 

The sun-wheel/swastika is not the provence of any one particular culture or creed - it was an almost universal symbol for purity and protection. I have even seen it incorporated into Roman mosaics in the UK as well as pre-Roman celtic art as well as more contemporary Buddhist/Hindu/African usage. It is however a symbol, in whatever orientation, linked to a rather nasty period of history, and thus perfectly legitimately incites certain reactions when not used in an historical context. I have actually been thinking about this thread over the last day or two and my own reaction to it, and have decided that my initial estimation still stands in addition to the elaboration by HVNSNTSOLDIER.

 

I am not offended - I just admitted that I had a slightly uncomfortable reaction to the symbol used in this context, that is all. I have also come to the conclusion that despite my discomfort, its use in the context of the OP's interpretation of the 40K universe and his well written and rationalized fluff, is appropriate. Perhaps some of the discomfort is the fact that most model painters of all types, including a lot us, secretly feel bad that we think that the 3rd Reich was possibly the coolest looking period in European/German history from a pagentry point of view, that the Reich armed forces looked head and shoulders better than any other military, and that the Nazis really knew how to throw a rally. I know that my feelings about a lot of their politics and almost all of their actions often comes into conflict with my admiration of their militaria and military appearence.

 

Sorry for the lengthy reply, I just felt the need to elaborate following knee jerk cries of immaturity and oversensitivity - back on topic now... keep up the good work and I look forward to seeing more.

[NemFX]

All of your pictures are broken..

[Aqatone]

If people get upset over a little symbol on a plastic model then they need to get a grip of themselves. Besides, this is a model forum not a "be upset about a swastika forum". Great model and great paintjob.

[Rapture747]

If people get upset over a little symbol on a plastic model then they need to get a grip of themselves. Besides, this is a model forum not a "be upset about a swastika forum". Great model and great paintjob.

The fact that you are upset about them being upset is even worse than them being upset to begin with. Why don't you just let people think what they want?

 

I would like to see these tanks. I hope you can get them re-posted soon.

[Rob_Loken]

I feel I must point out that those saying that the Swastika is not a Nazi symbol are right. However, the use on these vehicles clearly is not as the Buddhist / Hindu symbol of peace. 'Hey here come those peace loving space marines'. So I think it is perfectly valid that some people are going to be offended because it clearly isn't being used in the peace context. The OP states that his army is based on WW2 Germany, and that will have many negative conotations for many people.

 

Rant over. Sorry bout that.

 

However, I have viewed these before and think they are well painted and good conversions.

[Fausto2071]

Wow, I've been contemplating getting some of those vehicles for a while, you've totally put me off the idea now - as theres no way I'd get them to look that good!

 

they aren't swastikas!!! Swastikas are turned on their side; almost like standing on their point. Otherwise they are a symbol of Buddha and the hindu religion.

 

Care to tell us what sanskrit word Buddhists and Hindus use to refer to that symbol? :P

 

samsara

[Argon]

(I know Wikipedia isn't a reliable source but you get the idea).

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika

 

RAGE! ^_^ :cuss ^_^

 

 

As you can tell, I don't appreciate people saying such things about Wikipedia. Yes, it does have it's flaws, but it has ways of fixing them *walks away grumbling.....*[/wikirant]

 

 

Also, what Brother Duncs said. That's all I have to say here. I'd comment on the actual pictures, but Photobucket's not letting me. Somewthing about exeeded bandwidth.

 

EDIT: Never mind. I can see the pictures now. And that's just one tiny swastika. Not something to get all "OH NOES IT'S A SWASTIKA!" about.

[LeeHarvey]

Sorry about the photo issue, it is now solved and the images should be viewable again. Thanks everyone for the great compliments and the thought provoking discussion. So far it has thankfully remained civil, let us keep it that way or I fear the mods will have to close the topic. In fact, it may be better if we just steer clear of discussing the Nazis and the Swastika in general and leave the discussion for the design aspects and painting quality of the tanks themselves.

 

Thanks again everyone,

LeeHarvey

 

P.S. Here are a couple pics of the Chapter Master and his warrior lodge that I built the Kobra Stryker for. I felt they needed a dedicated Transport and I didn't want to stick them in a humdrum Rhino. This was the main motivation for converting the Pig Iron tanks.

http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr346/theLeeHarvey/Jonas%20Krieg/JonasKrieg780-1.jpg

http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr346/theLeeHarvey/Reinheitskult/Reinheitskult780-1.jpg

 

There are more pics of them in my Space Marine log, you can click the link in my sig if you are interested.

[Thantoes]

My friend, I care nothing over all the hulabaloo about the Nazi German influence. Your models and painting are sublime, a real pleasure to look at. I would love to pit my ultrasmurfs up against your force!!!

[Rapture747]

I love Imperial Guard models that take a modern, drab paint scheme. It makes them look more like warriors and less like a paintball team. Well Done.

[Lord Exedore]

To the conversions: Really Nice!!

 

To the Swastika problem or the whole topic of using "realworld" stuff :

To mention people should not feel offended by the symbols and icons you use, you say yourself that 40k reminds you of the dark times 60-70 yrs. back. Based on that I am not sure what your intentions are. Either you want to do a statement like:

1) People please think about the background of 40k before you start to be the GW posterboys (no not Ultra-Smurfs) that simply accept any fluff in a positive way GW throws at you - be it the destruction of poor civilians the sacrifice of young boys and girls every day for the sake of the emperor (golden throne) or just the general, only war, people mean nothing, etc. stuff.

2) I like the iconography of the nazis in WWII and therefore I use it freely (especially on the dread - this is a swastika and these are SS runes.

 

If it is a) - and I guess this is what you are doing, why have other people not the right to be offended? You compare 40k to nazi germany, so if you use their symbols and icons then people can be offended. It is as easy as that.

 

By the way, in a PM on that very same board half a year back I was told by someone that he was disliking germans in general but he was eager to tell me that he is no jew too...now tell me about that statement. Therefore people should think before they do something (writing, telling to others, etc. )and they should think first when painting stuff and presenting this to people who could start thinking about it - what is even intended (!)

But afterwards they have no right to simply vanish into the "please do not be offended, I mean you no harm" corner - when said people are offended or have a problem with it...these symbols stand for exactly the same. They meant harm for millions of people and especially in this context of 40k they should NOT be put on (or why do you think GW removed all swastikas, etc. from their metal models???)

 

Sorry if I have offended someone...

[TheDarkApostle]

they aren't swastikas!!! Swastikas are turned on their side; almost like standing on their point. Otherwise they are a symbol of Buddha and the hindu religion.

 

Care to tell us what sanskrit word Buddhists and Hindus use to refer to that symbol? :)

Can't see it answered properly somewhere yet so I'll throw it out here. In Hindu religion it's a symbol of the sun, thus, something not really shocking and awing since basically everyone civilization have had a symbol for it. It's pretty hard to miss or ignore it after all :)

 

TDA

[Master Constantine]

if the use of (that) symbol offends, then remember nazis also used the eagle, skulls, lightning bolts, ect....

honestly about models simply awesome

[Master Kashnizel]

I don't think a thread about toy soldiers is the place to discuss morale/ethical issues, and argue over a symbol. He has explained why he uses the symbol on his miniatures and I think it is a pretty valid reason, especially when you think back to the background of the 40k universe.

 

These models are fantastic and I am for sure going to pick up one of those tanks for my guard/marine army.

[LeeHarvey]

I don't think a thread about toy soldiers is the place to discuss morale/ethical issues, and argue over a symbol. He has explained why he uses the symbol on his miniatures and I think it is a pretty valid reason, especially when you think back to the background of the 40k universe.

 

 

Exactly. Thank you Kashnizel and thank you for the compliment as well, it is much appreciated. All of you, thank you for the compliments on my handiwork. If you have been inspired by these tanks to purchase your own for use with your Marines and you order them from Pig Iron directly, tell Simon and Lisa, Chuck said hi. ;)

[Ein Windir]

Very nicely painted models. I have no problem with the symbol as long it is not on a 45 degree angle.

[lee265]

Love the transports and marines.

[The Mad Hermit]

Nice work, but I have to call poor taste on the choice of background and/or markings, for whatever reason you want to cite. That material will ALWAYS bring about ill-feelings and plenty of discussion on the subject.

 

Couldn't you have used the black cross with white edging that was used all over Wermacht equipment?

 

Also, for all the smart-guy types who want to point out the Hindu origins and this and that: Tell that stuff to someone who survived the death camp at Auschwitz (like my wife's granmother), and see how far that gets you.

[Master Kashnizel]

Nice work, but I have to call poor taste on the choice of background and/or markings, for whatever reason you want to cite. That material will ALWAYS bring about ill-feelings and plenty of discussion on the subject.

 

Couldn't you have used the black cross with white edging that was used all over Wermacht equipment?

 

Also, for all the smart-guy types who want to point out the Hindu origins and this and that: Tell that stuff to someone who survived the death camp at Auschwitz (like my wife's granmother), and see how far that gets you.

 

He just said that he didn't want people to talk about this and just comment on the paintjob.

[The Mad Hermit]

He just said that he didn't want people to talk about this and just comment on the paintjob.

 

Forgive me for having an opinion on an incredibly controversial subject.

 

If he doesn't want people to go off about that sort of thing... it'd be a good idea not to post it or make half-assed defenses of horrid stuff.

 

Rant over.

 

Tell ya what, though, if this is the sort of community fostered by this hobby and this website... I have some serious thinking to do.

[c-wrex]

Tell ya what, though, if this is the sort of community fostered by this hobby and this website... I have some serious thinking to do.

 

/rant on!

 

Maybe you do.

 

This site and hobby are both clearly designed as escapist entertainment. We use it to escape regular day headaches and have a couple laughs for a few hours. My mother's grandmother was there as well. Everybody knows the symbolism. Everybody also knows it was many years before most of this web community was even born. And was perpetrated by sick individuals who don't represent this community, and also happen to be dead right now. Why not protest the game over it's use of exterminatus and how much it resembles the nuclear attacks on Japan, or the chemical attacks authorized by Saddam Hussein, or the OP's screenname resembling the alleged murderer of a beloved American president?

 

Eveyrone else on this site seems just fine appreciating a piece of wonderfully painted plastic with some well thought out and genuinely creative fluff. If you feel like pissing and moaning, go somewhere else. /rant

 

Excellent models, by the way, leeharvey! I love the much more logical tank designs you've put to use.

[chapter master 454]

Well, who gets two very different symbols mixed up, I actually had to hunt down the offending article on the model and finally find it as a wore bit on the side that isn't blatantly clear. Seriously, getting worked up over what happened in the past is just stupid and I guess proves human nature: we will fight over anything, and look for anything to fight over.

 

Onto commenting on those brilliant tanks, which I say are very well done. The paint job is just a piece of art with the worn down effect near the treads and the fact I could believe this tank might exist makes it even more amazing. Just a great pair of models, I have to ask where you got them from?