Stupid question, I just can't find the rules

[Reclusiarch Darius]

This came up in a game today;

 

- I declared Tank Shock on a Carnifex (which is 'Fearless')

- The Tyranid player claimed that because he didn't fail the Morale check, he doesn't need to move

- I stated that, as per the rulebook, it says 'regardless of whether you pass or fail the Morale check, the tank moves up as if the enemy unit wasn't there. Hence, leave of my way'

- He refused to move the Carnifex and again claimed 'no Fall back move, no movement whatsoever'

 

Also;

 

- The Tyranid player claimed that a Tank Shock prevents me from shooting any of my weapons

- I found this hard to believe, but I decided not to Tank Shock, as it wouldn't do anything (I'd just stop when I hit the Carnifex, plus I'd miss out on shooting).

 

 

I dunno whether this was actual cheating, or just a misunderstanding on the rules, but I don't think its right. Could someone please advise me on how Tank Shock works?

[Gurth]

- The Tyranid player claimed that because he didn't fail the Morale check, he doesn't need to move

Would your tank have overlapped the Carnifex's base if it hadn't moved and your tank had moved the full distance you declared it was going to move (or came to a stop because of some other reason, like a friendly model being in the way)? If the tank didn't overlap the base, the Carnifex would not have had to move at all in any case — this because only models that would be in the way of the vehicle need to be moved aside (40K rulebook, page 68, right-hand column).

 

If the Carnifex's base would be overlapped by the vehicle, it would need to move aside so it is 1 inch away from the vehicle, because that rule doesn't depend on succeeding or failing the Morale check.

 

- I stated that, as per the rulebook, it says 'regardless of whether you pass or fail the Morale check, the tank moves up as if the enemy unit wasn't there. Hence, leave of my way'

Not IMHO — it means the unit lets the tank pass, and only needs to move when the model is in the way of the vehicle when that comes to a halt.

 

- He refused to move the Carnifex and again claimed 'no Fall back move, no movement whatsoever'

I'd say he was wrong.

 

- The Tyranid player claimed that a Tank Shock prevents me from shooting any of my weapons

You can shoot, if you would normally be allowed to do so at the speed you moved. Ramming prevents shooting because it requires you to move the tank at top speed (unless you have POtMS or something similar), but you can attempt to tank shock by moving at cruising speed, allowing you to fire one weapon if you use a fast vehicle; if you use another type of vehicle you can't shoot at all (again, excepting things like POtMS).

[Legatus]

- The Tyranid player claimed that because he didn't fail the Morale check, he doesn't need to move

- I stated that, as per the rulebook, it says 'regardless of whether you pass or fail the Morale check, the tank moves up as if the enemy unit wasn't there. Hence, leave of my way'

- He refused to move the Carnifex and again claimed 'no Fall back move, no movement whatsoever'

"If the test is passed the unit will simply let the tank move through, as if it was not there. (...)

If some of the enemy models in the enemy unit would end up underneath the vehicle when it reaches its final position (it makes no difference whether the unit is falling back or not), these models must be moved out of the way by the shortest distance, leaving at least 1" between them and the vehicle and maintaining unit coherency."

- Rulebook, page 68, "Tank Shock!"

 

So if you called the distance and your tank moved to somewhere a few inches behind the Carnifex, then the Carnifex would not move at all and simply let the tank pass. If the tank stopped somewhere on the Carnifex (you have to call the distance before moving), then the Carnifex is moved out of the way of the tank.

 

- The Tyranid player claimed that a Tank Shock prevents me from shooting any of my weapons

To perform a Tank Shock you declare the distance the tank moves before moving it, and the tank has to move at least at combat speed (see page 68), meaning he could not just pivot on the spot and cause a tank shock on enemy models that might be close or in contact with it. The tank has to move at least a bit. It depends on the vehicle and the distance it moves what kind of weapons it could then fire. If you moved only up to 6", you can then probably fire the single weapon a regular vehicle would be alowed to fire.

[Brother Captain Matthias]

Yes, if you move exactly 6", no further, no less, then you may fire. Unless you're fast. But only Xenos get fast tanks. And some deviant chapters. I think... :D

[Praeger]

Yes, if you move exactly 6", no further, no less, then you may fire

 

He can move less, but he would still "count" as having moved 6"

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Thanks for the replies guys.

Would your tank have overlapped the Carnifex's base if it hadn't moved and your tank had moved the full distance you declared it was going to move (or came to a stop because of some other reason, like a friendly model being in the way)? If the tank didn't overlap the base, the Carnifex would not have had to move at all in any case — this because only models that would be in the way of the vehicle need to be moved aside (40K rulebook, page 68, right-hand column).

 

If the Carnifex's base would be overlapped by the vehicle, it would need to move aside so it is 1 inch away from the vehicle, because that rule doesn't depend on succeeding or failing the Morale check.

 

I was moving my Hammerhead directly into the path of the Carnifex, with the aim of 'shunting' it back to keep it from assaulting my Fire Warriors. As it turned out in-game, I had to stop directly in front of the Carnifex, slowing my movement for no reason other than because of his insistence.

 

You can shoot, if you would normally be allowed to do so at the speed you moved. Ramming prevents shooting because it requires you to move the tank at top speed (unless you have POtMS or something similar), but you can attempt to tank shock by moving at cruising speed, allowing you to fire one weapon if you use a fast vehicle; if you use another type of vehicle you can't shoot at all (again, excepting things like POtMS).

 

Cheers. The Hammerhead had the multi-tracker upgrade, so I could fire like a fast vehicle (ie I only moved 6" to Tank Shock, so I could still fire all my guns).

 

"If the test is passed the unit will simply let the tank move through, as if it was not there. (...)

If some of the enemy models in the enemy unit would end up underneath the vehicle when it reaches its final position (it makes no difference whether the unit is falling back or not), these models must be moved out of the way by the shortest distance, leaving at least 1" between them and the vehicle and maintaining unit coherency."

- Rulebook, page 68, "Tank Shock!"

 

So if you called the distance and your tank moved to somewhere a few inches behind the Carnifex, then the Carnifex would not move at all and simply let the tank pass. If the tank stopped somewhere on the Carnifex (you have to call the distance before moving), then the Carnifex is moved out of the way of the tank.

 

That was the whole idea :P . I moved into his Carnifex, to push it back and against the Hammerheads hull (it was more important the FW's made it to the objective, rather than my tank surviving).

To perform a Tank Shock you declare the distance the tank moves before moving it, and the tank has to move at least at combat speed (see page 68), meaning he could not just pivot on the spot and cause a tank shock on enemy models that might be close or in contact with it. The tank has to move at least a bit. It depends on the vehicle and the distance it moves what kind of weapons it could then fire. If you moved only up to 6", you can then probably fire the single weapon a regular vehicle would be alowed to fire.

 

I moved 6" in any case, so it didn't really matter. Also, due to multi-tracker I could fire all weapons moving 6".

 

 

Ok, so this is how it worked out;

 

- I was about to Tank Shock, but after the Tyranid player misinformed me (he first claimed the Carnifex wouldn't move, then that I wouldn't be able to shoot)

- I didn't Tank Shock, he ran his Carnifex around the front of the Hammerhead (it was facing lengthways to the Carnifex, shielding the FW's running behind it), and munched my FW's.

 

According to the above comments, this is how it should have gone down;

 

- I Tank Shock 6", moving his Carnifex back 1-2", and also get the monster sitting 1" away from the hull. This would've prevented any assault by his Carnifex, as he wouldn't be able to move the bugger 6" around the Hammerhead and still be within 6" to assault the FW's.

- Having only moved 6" (and having a multi-tracker), I would've been able to open fire with all my weapons (as it counts as a fast vehicle for shooting purposes)

 

Sigh...if I had managed to get the FW's into the building a turn faster, I could've won...as it turned out, we both lost all our Troops and thus drew for the game (it was 'Seize Ground').

 

So in future, I'll follow the steps as below;

 

- Declare Tank Shock

- Move at least 6" (and up to 12")

- Enemy takes Morale check and falls back if failed (if 'Fearless' or passed Morale check, doesn't fall back)

- If Tank Shock ends up with the tank on top of the enemy unit, moved the enemy unit until they're 1" away from the hull (in the direction of the Tank Shock move)

- Shooting is conducted like normal (ie 6" Tank Shock lets a normal tank fire 1 main+defensive, 6"+ would be no weapons)

 

 

Thanks for helping to clarify how Tank Shock works. This will come in handy for my Grey Knight army, which is going to rely on Tank Shocking with Landraiders to deal with hordes.

[rat of vengence]

Well, I think he had the rules wrong, but if the tank would have ended its move over part of the carnifex base, he could have moved it to the side (his choice I think) rather than just backwards, so it might not have worked out for you anyway.

 

Good plan though! :)

 

RoV

[Legatus]

- Declare Tank Shock

- Move at least 6" (and up to 12")

A tank does not have to move 6" to tank shock. It has to move "at least at combat speed" which is anything up to 6". So it could have tank shocked with a 1" move. The only requirement is that it has to "move" at all, i.e. it cannot remain stationary and tank shock by pivoting on the spot.

 

- If Tank Shock ends up with the tank on top of the enemy unit, moved the enemy unit until they're 1" away from the hull (in the direction of the Tank Shock move)

Enemy models are not pushed back, tehy move out of the way. If the tank hapens to be above some models at his final position, then teh models are moved away from the tank by the shortest distance (and so that they stay within coherency). You have to declare the distance the tank moves before the tank shock, so you may not land on top of a unit the way you wanted it to be. If the tank stops a bit behind the unit, with his back side covering a few models (or the singel model like the carnifex), then the models are moved forward, to where the tank was coming from.

I.E., the Tank stops, you look at which side of him there would be models underneath it. and those models are moved away from the tank, into the direction they are to the tank.

[waaanial00]

Just to clarify he wouldnt neccessarily have to move back. He can move to the side of your vehicle to let it past instead. As long as he isnt within 1" he can make the shortest possible move to get out of your way. Depending on how fast you were going and where you ended up he could have been closer to your FW at the end of the shock.

 

Think about it, the fex moves out of the way as your tank rolls by and as you glide to a halt it moves forward to avoid you. Rather than he backs up in the face of a tank it isnt scared of.

[Brother Captain Matthias]

I see i was wrong. 3 weeks penitent prayer and contemplative meditation for me.