Arco-Flagellants?

[fredman7]

Ive been having a look around at some army lists for the sisters of battle and have found that little if any have been running Arco-Flagellants.

Now. Maybe i'm missing something, or maybe people don't have room for a priest in their army, at 210 points for 6 they may seem a little

expensive but whenever i have run these guys they have made up their points in kills tenfold, one time killing abbadon and a ten man squad

of chaos termies! I have to admit i was lucky then but with the potential of 42 power weapon attacks on the charge and moving at a frightening

speed across the table, at 210 points for 6 I don't see why you wouldn't take them, and i forgot to mention they are toughness 5 and get a 4+

invunerable save, now personally I think im either stupid in which case i'm missing something pretty big (and yes i know they can kill themselves)

or else people just dont know about them.

 

I have a strange gut feeling that i am stupid but please tell me why (or why not).

 

Cheers ;)

[Marid]

My army building is glacial at best, but I have arcos in my painting queue. I think their suicidal nature puts people off, but I've learned from other games that sometimes the price is worth it. In the early days of MTG a number of cards had similar drawbacks (e.g., Juzam Djinn). People didn't like them. After awhile, those cards became some of the most sought after.

 

I have dreams of running a complete freak-show army someday, but baby steps... baby steps...

[Venerable Rhadamanthus]

I'm well aware of A-F's!! They are so rarely seen that people just don't know what to do or freak out when they realize how brutal A-F's can be!!

 

For my Apoc army I run a core of BT's with and OM Inquisitor w/ Grey Knights on one side and a OH Inquisitor w/ Priests, Sisters Repentia (their Zeal ability so like BT's it just fits), Assassins, and A-F's on the other!

[boreas]

I'll start by saying I love Arcos, Penitent Engines and Repentias. The main problem is that, as you said, they are very very costly. First, you have to run them across the table while a knowledgeable opponent will shoot at it. Second, each turn after you activate them, you loose 17% of you unit (statistically). Third, you have to take a priest which will hinder another unit in it's function most of the time (although I circumvent that, see later!). Now, in the overall tendency of codex creep, that is even worse. It' because many of your opponents (CSM, SM, IG, Orks mainly) have gotten cheaper or more effective. A 40-points guardmen unit with the "first line fire, second line fire" will pump out 30 lasguns shots and kill one. Add to that the one you lost to activation (statistically) and you just lost 70 points in order to kill a 40 points unit. And a good opponent will maneuver to ensure that you get no other options... If you do keep them in cover and use the regular run until you position them, thay can have a devastating effect! The army I have the most success against is CSM, as costly model (plague marines!) fall down pretty easily to an arco's charge.

 

As for the priest problem, I usually put him in a dominion squad with 4 meltas and a VSS with eviscerator in an immolator. A similar celestian squad with 2 meltas is also good. Being kept in a vahicle prevents the squad from just going berserk. The reason I use it with the 4-meltas dominions is that I usually use it against nids and that squad is a great MC hunter...

 

 

Phil

[Empty Bolter Clip]

Second, each turn after you activate them, you loose 17% of you unit (statistically).

 

Keep in mind, the downside of the "stimm injection" rule only comes into effect once you use the stimm injectors for the boost of speed... your quote kind of implies that you could lose one EVERY time you activate them and not just each activation AFTER using the stimms. (If I am reading what you said correctly) You can save the stimms up until the moment you *need* to use them. (If I am reading what you said correctly)

 

IMO, 5th edition's "run" rule makes these guys some fast lil' buggers! It is my understanding that a unit could run the extra d6 instead of shooting, AND be subject to the Holy Rage's extra d6 as well. Effectively, you could do a couple of things: Move + Run the extra d6 (no assault), Move + Stimm d6 and assault (and lose 1 on a 6), or Move + Run d6 + Stimm d6 (no assault, lose 1 on a 6). My plan would be to move + run behind a screen, from cover, etc while out of charge range, and then move + stimm only when I need the extra speed to get into combat which would limit my loss from stimm overdose (or whatever the actual term would be). Thats the plan anyway...

 

I have a list that uses them, and it looks like they will have some potential on paper, but I have not had a chance to do a field test yet... only because of my personal rule of "If I don't paint it, I don't play it", and I have not painted them yet. Also on a side note, the Move + run + Holy Rage would work on the Repentia as well...

 

Empty Bolter Clip

[boreas]

Keep in mind, the downside of the "stimm injection" rule only comes into effect once you use the stimm injectors for the boost of speed... your quote kind of implies that you could lose one EVERY time you activate them and not just each activation AFTER using the stimms. (If I am reading what you said correctly) You can save the stimms up until the moment you *need* to use them. (If I am reading what you said correctly)

 

By activate, I did mean after the stimms! 5th ed. did make them better because the run rule lets you activate the stimms later on (in 4th, to get the as heck to a target fast enough you would have had to use the stimms earlier on...). Still a fun part of the freak show army!

 

Phil

[Marid]

My feeling about these armies is that you need to load up on them. This is like the notion that one tank is a fire magnet, but two make the whole more survivable. For instance, take two squadrons of 3 'engines and two units of 6 arcos (900 pts + priest). Deploy them as close as you can to your opponent's units and run like crazy. You should engage on turn 2. You will lose some, but with so many models enough should survive to make quite a mess. Should be great fun! ;)

[Imperator Mos]

I use mine in larger games, and I find that they survive longer than they probably should, just becuase my opponent doesn't know how nasty they are. Most recently I had a 6 strong unit go through a 30 strong choppa boys squad w/ nob and a mega armoured warboss and retinue. With no losses.

 

Theyre even better if your enemy runs at you and you can use them for counter-assault.

 

Oh, and I always take a priest anyway, with eviscerator/carapace attached to an arbite squad...

[fredman7]

I think thats it. People just don't know how nasty they are, and even though they kill themselves, as marid said, if you stock up on them

(as with anything) some will die but enough will go through and cause serious damage, but something i have found is that the

arco's get completely hacked up by weak cheap guys like orks for example, with their 1 million attacks (or a 40pt guard squad), so I

often choose to run them towards expensive units like termies for example, or a unit that has not very many attacks,

but can cause serious damage to your other guys, units with power fists or power weapons etc, seeing as they have a 4+ invunerable the

arco's dont mind and can shrug off most of the hits, and its protecting your other more fragile units.

[DevianID]

I think the real problem of arco's is the poor metagame options that acros have. Currently, anti vehicle stuff has the first priority, and arcos dont really do anything for vehicles. The second priority is probably horde, depending on your area, and arcos are bad against horde attacks... 30 man ork mobs can stomp a unit of arcos, sadly, even when the arcos charge--not to mention the 60 some shots that a shoota mob gets as well. So because arcos on the charge, rolling nothing but 5's for their number of attacks, only kill what, 9 orks, the orks quickly grind the arcos to dust. It woundnt be as bad if the arcos also had feel no pain for the same point cost.

 

So then you are looking at 3rd and 4th metagames, things like assault and decisiveness, which is where the arco's start to shine. The problem is, usually a sister's list needs most of their points to go into anti-vehicle and anti-horde options, thus usually the 210+priest can be better spent elsewhere. Units that can perform similar to arcos for similar points include seraphim, 2 flying nuns (for the speed and CC ability and invuln, all based off faith) and 2 immolator squads (speed and damage output of the flamers, plus whatever melta/flamers the squad packs).

[Senseilord Ashahara]

They look cool, chicks dig them, many power armour players let out alittle bit of wee.

I'm trying to shoehorn another squad in.

[Venerable Rhadamanthus]

I think the real problem of arco's is the poor metagame options that acros have. Currently, anti vehicle stuff has the first priority, and arcos dont really do anything for vehicles. The second priority is probably horde, depending on your area, and arcos are bad against horde attacks... 30 man ork mobs can stomp a unit of arcos, sadly, even when the arcos charge--not to mention the 60 some shots that a shoota mob gets as well. So because arcos on the charge, rolling nothing but 5's for their number of attacks, only kill what, 9 orks, the orks quickly grind the arcos to dust. It woundnt be as bad if the arcos also had feel no pain for the same point cost.

 

So then you are looking at 3rd and 4th metagames, things like assault and decisiveness, which is where the arco's start to shine. The problem is, usually a sister's list needs most of their points to go into anti-vehicle and anti-horde options, thus usually the 210+priest can be better spent elsewhere. Units that can perform similar to arcos for similar points include seraphim, 2 flying nuns (for the speed and CC ability and invuln, all based off faith) and 2 immolator squads (speed and damage output of the flamers, plus whatever melta/flamers the squad packs).

 

 

Which is why I use them in Apoc and rarely in normal games! ;)