Custodian Athiair Posted April 26, 2009 Share Posted April 26, 2009 Well as the title says i was thinking that maybe the Emperor 'saw' the heresy coming i mean why else would he pull back the Imperial Fists to rebuild his palace? but then the counter arugment is that if he saw the heresy coming why did he give Horus the power to do it anyway i am just throwing ideas out here also on another note where was Rogal Dorn found becuase it says in the codex that the Imperial Fist homeworld is Terra and i thought the homeworlds were the place the Primarch was found anyway thanks Athiair ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/167033-did-the-emperor-see-the-heresy-coming/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus Posted April 26, 2009 Share Posted April 26, 2009 When Magnus tried to warn the Emperor he did not believe Magnus words that his favourite son should be a traitor. Unless there are contradictory statements somewhere that would pretty much settle it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/167033-did-the-emperor-see-the-heresy-coming/#findComment-1967813 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skirax Posted April 26, 2009 Share Posted April 26, 2009 There is debate about this. Somesay that he made the Heresy happen, not just saw it, so that when the Imperium dies out, he himself can be reborn and lead Mankind into a brand new age, and others say that he had no idea about this, and he just lived in ignorance. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/167033-did-the-emperor-see-the-heresy-coming/#findComment-1967840 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodunius Posted April 26, 2009 Share Posted April 26, 2009 I thought there was a canon statement somewhere that he had a "Shadow point" (Eldar term for a the unseeable future - typically involving the seers death) covering the whole of the Heresy? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/167033-did-the-emperor-see-the-heresy-coming/#findComment-1967882 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Combo Posted April 26, 2009 Share Posted April 26, 2009 I always thought the Emperor was like God in Christian mythology. hes omnicipent so from the moment he created Lucifer he would know he would eventually rebel, yet he still created him. Knowing he would corrupt mankind etc. The reasoning being that god basically wrote the "storyline" of our universe from begining to end before it even began. Well atleast if you take a Calvinist approuch to Christianity. As an athiest who has studied Christianity (effect of Religion on World Sociology) and read the bible the similarities between God and The Emperor are glaringly obvious. I imagine the 40k storyline is based on the book "Paradise Lost" by John Milton. In Paradise Lost Satan tries to rebel against God only to fail, and even when defeated he still tries to war against God, not knowing his every victory was not only allowed to happen because God let it, but that it only came to be because God decided Satan should do it. I imagine a similar relationship between The Emperor and Horus. EDIT: likewise i think that The human form of the Emperor was only "The Son" part of the christian holy trinity*. The Father part would be a Warp like god similar to Khorne, Nurgle, Slaanesh and Tzeentch. And the holy spirit would be the Space Marines, pardon the cliche. *yet he wasnt forced to die for humanities sins, he was forced to suffer for millenia in a state of dying, yet not to feel death. Basically the Emperor one upping jesus "Oh you had to die for Humanities sins, eh? Well I had to slowly die over Millions of years for humanities sins!" Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/167033-did-the-emperor-see-the-heresy-coming/#findComment-1967934 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Master Tyrak Posted April 26, 2009 Share Posted April 26, 2009 I think in 40k the future is not set, particularly when you look at how Eldar Farseers percieve the future as a shifting set of possibilities. I reckon the Emperor saw the Heresy coming as one of many possibilities, and made a judgement call that it was too unlikely. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/167033-did-the-emperor-see-the-heresy-coming/#findComment-1967966 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mal Posted April 26, 2009 Share Posted April 26, 2009 That the emperor knows the future is not in dispute... That the emperor knows what future is uncertain... That the emperor knows details of the future or just shadows is uncertain... That GW has declined to release fluff telling us just what the emperor is capible of makes this whole argument a moot point. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/167033-did-the-emperor-see-the-heresy-coming/#findComment-1967994 Share on other sites More sharing options...
clanfield Posted April 26, 2009 Share Posted April 26, 2009 rogal dorn was found on the world of inwit -imperial fist IA, the terra part was added in 4th eddition i beleve the fists recruiting from necromundia /inwit then terra was added and from the heros of the space marines novel we have a new world thranos (great story i thought by the way ) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/167033-did-the-emperor-see-the-heresy-coming/#findComment-1968062 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted April 27, 2009 Share Posted April 27, 2009 according the the Collected Visions, the Emperor's prescience was fading as the Heresy grew closer, maybe due to interference from the warp powers. WLK Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/167033-did-the-emperor-see-the-heresy-coming/#findComment-1968332 Share on other sites More sharing options...
x_beowolf_x1 Posted April 27, 2009 Share Posted April 27, 2009 Well, OP's suggestion is a very good point to make. First off, I would like to say that in Canon, the eldar deemed the Emperor as a novice seer. He wasn't too good at seeing into the future, but his other psychic powers were tremendous. Also, If the Emperor saw the heresy coming, and let it come, and saw himself dying, then why would he have played along with it? Surely he didn't want to see his beloved imperium in the state that it is now. If the Emperor's ultimate goal was to destroy the chaos gods, why not just let horus win? If horus had won, chaos would have collapsed on itself. Then the Emperor could have been reborn, lead the tattered remains of humanity, and lead them into a new golden age. But then that brings about the whole question of why he would have ever created the primarchs in the first place.... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/167033-did-the-emperor-see-the-heresy-coming/#findComment-1968348 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted April 27, 2009 Share Posted April 27, 2009 Well, OP's suggestion is a very good point to make. First off, I would like to say that in Canon, the eldar deemed the Emperor as a novice seer. He wasn't too good at seeing into the future, but his other psychic powers were tremendous. Also, If the Emperor saw the heresy coming, and let it come, and saw himself dying, then why would he have played along with it? Surely he didn't want to see his beloved imperium in the state that it is now. If the Emperor's ultimate goal was to destroy the chaos gods, why not just let horus win? If horus had won, chaos would have collapsed on itself. Then the Emperor could have been reborn, lead the tattered remains of humanity, and lead them into a new golden age. But then that brings about the whole question of why he would have ever created the primarchs in the first place.... the eldar did create both the eye of terror and a chaos "god", so maybe their opinions of other powers might be slightly off... WLK Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/167033-did-the-emperor-see-the-heresy-coming/#findComment-1968378 Share on other sites More sharing options...
tastytaste Posted April 27, 2009 Share Posted April 27, 2009 We also have to keep in mind that he is the Emperor not a God per say. I think the 1000s of years since he was put in the golden throne many things have built up around him making me more powerful then he really was. Sorta just like how Jesus lead to Catholic Church and we built all things around Jesus that he did not do or even mentioned. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/167033-did-the-emperor-see-the-heresy-coming/#findComment-1968402 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sons of Horus Posted April 27, 2009 Share Posted April 27, 2009 what will it take for people to stop comparing these things to religion??! whether he foresaw it or not is currently unknown to us and is totally up to GW to decide. not BL but GW!!! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/167033-did-the-emperor-see-the-heresy-coming/#findComment-1968478 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sempronius Posted April 27, 2009 Share Posted April 27, 2009 Linky Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/167033-did-the-emperor-see-the-heresy-coming/#findComment-1968509 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus Posted April 27, 2009 Share Posted April 27, 2009 whether he foresaw it or not is currently unknown to us and is totally up to GW to decide. So how about the whole "Emperor not believeing Magnus that Horus would betray him" thing from the Index Astartes Thousand Sons? :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/167033-did-the-emperor-see-the-heresy-coming/#findComment-1968596 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razhbad Posted April 27, 2009 Share Posted April 27, 2009 Well there is debate with that aswell whether he believed him or not. What is true is Magnus' Sorcery did damage to the Emperor's great works so badley that he needed Magnus to power the Astonomican whilst he repaired the damage. He sent Leman Russ to pick up Magnus and we know how that turned out. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/167033-did-the-emperor-see-the-heresy-coming/#findComment-1968621 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Focslain Posted April 27, 2009 Share Posted April 27, 2009 Well there is debate with that aswell whether he believed him or not. What is true is Magnus' Sorcery did damage to the Emperor's great works so badley that he needed Magnus to power the Astonomican whilst he repaired the damage. He sent Leman Russ to pick up Magnus and we know how that turned out. That's because Horus changed his orders form capture and deliever to kill on sight. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/167033-did-the-emperor-see-the-heresy-coming/#findComment-1969090 Share on other sites More sharing options...
lee265 Posted April 27, 2009 Share Posted April 27, 2009 what will it take for people to stop comparing these things to religion??! whether he foresaw it or not is currently unknown to us and is totally up to GW to decide. not BL but GW!!! Not another hater of BL which happens to actually be as much canon as the codexes. All one big happy company. Also Emperor Bob did see this coming the thing on the golden throne one of lost primarchs this way actual Big E. Bob could be around to lead humanity when they need him again :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/167033-did-the-emperor-see-the-heresy-coming/#findComment-1969174 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prathios Posted April 27, 2009 Share Posted April 27, 2009 what will it take for people to stop comparing these things to religion??! whether he foresaw it or not is currently unknown to us and is totally up to GW to decide. not BL but GW!!! Not another hater of BL which happens to actually be as much canon as the codexes. All one big happy company. Also Emperor Bob did see this coming the thing on the golden throne one of lost primarchs this way actual Big E. Bob could be around to lead humanity when they need him again ;) While I agree its time to quit the religion comparisons as they are bordering on creating a banable thread I think Sons of Horus needs to realize that GW has clearly stated that the Horus Heresy books are 100% GW sanctioned THE WAY IT HAPPENED. It doesn't just have a stamp of approval like other BL books which are also cannon. They have made a special point that these books are the real deal as if they were codex's themselves. So time to get with the program on this one. I hate how people treat this stuff like its star wars expanded universe. The BL stuff almost always fits the fluff and atmosphere and usually doesn't take too much liberty. Its usually good stuff. And like it or not this particular stuff is Grade A Cannon! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/167033-did-the-emperor-see-the-heresy-coming/#findComment-1969297 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Master Tyrak Posted April 27, 2009 Share Posted April 27, 2009 I think Sons of Horus needs to realize that GW has clearly stated that the Horus Heresy books are 100% GW sanctioned THE WAY IT HAPPENED. Actually, that's not true. Dan Abnett was the one who stated that the Horus Heresy series was intended to be canon, as of yet this statement has not been either supported or denied by the Design Studio. The truth of the statement is based entirely upon your opinion of Dan Abnett. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/167033-did-the-emperor-see-the-heresy-coming/#findComment-1969308 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus Posted April 27, 2009 Share Posted April 27, 2009 ...and was later contradicted by George Mann, who I think may be some sort of boss to Dan Abnett, not sure on his exact position though. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/167033-did-the-emperor-see-the-heresy-coming/#findComment-1969362 Share on other sites More sharing options...
XKhalilX Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 I think in 40k the future is not set, particularly when you look at how Eldar Farseers percieve the future as a shifting set of possibilities. I reckon the Emperor saw the Heresy coming as one of many possibilities, and made a judgement call that it was too unlikely. Tyrak, I think you captured it perfectly in this statement. He saw the many possibilities. He was prepared, and saw that as things were rolling on, that many of the events were leading to the heresy of which he just was not desiring to have and quickly called Dorn and the Fists back ASAP. Moment he realized, he mobilized all that he could as fast as possible Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/167033-did-the-emperor-see-the-heresy-coming/#findComment-1969502 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.