Shrike, Infiltrate, and Combat Squads

[Ochimusha]

How does Shrike work with giving his unit Infiltrate and combat squads?

 

Codex SM:

“The decision to split the unit into combat squads, ..., must be made when the unit is deployed.”

“Shrike (and models in his squad) benefit from the infiltrate special rule.”

 

From 5th ed rulebook on Infiltrate:

“Units with this special rule are deployed last, after all other units (friends and foe) have been deployed.”

 

So if I understand this Shrike and his unit deploy last, after everyone has already deployed. Then when I deploy them I can choose to split the squad into combat squads. Can I deploy both combat squads anywhere infiltrators would normally be allowed?

[Frosty the Pyro]

no, combat squading is simlutanious with deployment. thus if you combat squaded a unit, Shrike would only be attached to one of said squads.

[Ochimusha]

no, combat squading is simlutanious with deployment. thus if you combat squaded a unit, Shrike would only be attached to one of said squads.

I don't think you're right. The combat squad rule says "when the unit is deployed," not "during deployment."

 

Basically it's this:

When Shrike's unit is deployed, declare combat squads.

When combat squads are declared, one unit doesn't have infiltrate

Combat squads can be deployed in separate locations

So...

-Deployment starts

--Deploy infiltrators

---Shrike's unit is deployed as infiltrators, since they have infiltrate

----Combat squads are declared and split.

-----They are deployed separately

-----One combat squad no longer has Infiltrate

Once they've been deployed as infiltrators it shouldn't matter if they have the Infiltrate special rule or not.

 

Also what about outflanking?

Preparing Reserves:

"When deploying their army players may choose not to deploy one or more units in their army and instead leave them in reserve."

Rolling for reserves:

"Once all of the units have been rolled for, the player picks any one of the units arriving and deploys it."

Outflank:

"During deployment, players may declare that units with the 'scout' or 'infiltrate' special rules are attempting to outflank the enemy."

 

It's a similar thing. You choose not to deploy Shrike's unit and declare them as an “outflanking unit,” once the unit is rolled and deployed they split up and one combat squad no longer has Infiltrate but it is still an outflanking unit.

 

Another example, ignoring Shrike for a moment, would be deep strike. Do you make reserve rolls for 1 or 2 units if you want to split them into combat squads? Similarly to outflanking, units for deep striking aren't split up until they're deployed and they aren't deployed until they're rolled for so you would only make reserve rolls for one unit. Additionally you never have to declare them as deep strikers, you just put them in reserves, unlike outflanking and infiltrating.

 

I'm usually not such a rules lawyer but I'm making an exception in this case because I think it makes sense fluff wise. The infiltrating unit is supposed to be Shrike's Raven Wing, his specially trained forces. Whether they're with Shrike or not shouldn't effect their training. And I also think it's intended, as the Blood Angels and Dark Angels codices clearly state that units held in reserve can't form combat squads while Codex: Space Marines allows it. It's not broken or overpowered either.

[greatcrusade08]

The way i see it is, you deploy the rest of the army first, then when you deploy Shrikes squad (last), the combat squad without Shrike has to set up in your own deployment zone..

The only real benefit is they set up last.

 

GC08

[Bannus]

[basically it's this:

When Shrike's unit is deployed, declare combat squads.

When combat squads are declared, one unit doesn't have infiltrate

Combat squads can be deployed in separate locations

So...

-Deployment starts

--Deploy infiltrators

---Shrike's unit is deployed as infiltrators, since they have infiltrate

----Combat squads are declared and split.

-----They are deployed separately

-----One combat squad no longer has Infiltrate

Once they've been deployed as infiltrators it shouldn't matter if they have the Infiltrate special rule or not.

There is no "then" and "then" for purposes of deployment. This all effectively takes place simultaniously.

 

There is an order to deployment - yes. But for the purposes of Shrike and "his squad", that is determined instantaniously.

 

So if you split into combat squads, then only one half will be able to infiltrate because the only the portion of the unit that is deployed within coherency of Shrike can benefit from his rule. The other half must deploy normally because it cannot benefit from the rule. As you pointed out - they are treated as seperate units and Shrike cannot join both of them at the same time.

[Grey Mage]

no, combat squading is simlutanious with deployment. thus if you combat squaded a unit, Shrike would only be attached to one of said squads.

I don't think you're right. The combat squad rule says "when the unit is deployed," not "during deployment."

Well, unless your deepstriking arent they deployed... during deployment?