Eye of Vengeance

[MechSpacewulf]

I went against a group of Nids last night, I shot at the HQ Broodlord and his retinue of 5 Genestealers and of course used the Eye of Vengeance rule. The Broodlord has a toughness that is one point higher then the Genestealers so the question is did I allocate the wounds correctly? I ended up inflicting 2 wounds however one die was good enough to wound the Genestealers and one die was high enough to wound the Broodlord however my opponent said if I was shooting at the Broodlord I could only take out the wounds on the Broodlord and since one of the rolls was not a wounding roll and I gave him that consideration and told him I would check in on the forums to see if we played it correctly.

 

SM Codex pg. 88

 

Nid Codex pg. 36,39

[Gornall]

With Eye of Vengenance, you take your normal to hit and to wound rolls before you allocate. This means you would use the most common toughness in the unit (in this case the Genestealers) when making your to wound rolls. Once all the to wound rolls are made, THEN you allocate any wounds from Telion where you want them, while your opponent allocates the rest.

[MechSpacewulf]

So the two wounds inflicted by Telion could both be placed on the Broodlord even though of the dice to wound rolls one of them was not high enough to count as a wound to the BL, does that make sense?

 

So say I need to roll 3's to wound the HQ unit, I roll a 3 and a 5. I use the E.O.V. and then choose to put both wounds on the Broodlord, can I do that? Or do I have to allocate one wound to the BL then one to the Genestealers and of course the rest of the Scout squad gets to have wounds taken off as the oppenet wants. My pea brain hurts :P

[Legatus]

You are allowed to allocate the wounds you inflicted with Telion, instead of your opponent doing it, but the wounds would still have to be allocated following the regular rules. So if Telion and his squad in total inflicted fewer wounds that there were models in the Broodlord's unit, then you would only be allowed to put one wound on the broodlord. It does not matter if that wound was inflicted by rolling a 4 (which is enought to wound a genestealer and hence the whole unit, even though it would not have been enough to wound a T5 model. It was a wound inflicted on the majority toughness as per the rules for multiple toughness values on page 19 in teh rulebook). The other wound would have to go on a genestealer, because no model may get more than one wound allocated to it unless every model in the unit already got one already.

 

If Telion and his squad had inflicted more wounds than the Broodlord's unit had models, you would be allowed to have both of Telions inflicted wounds put on the Broodlord.

 

Obviously it makes sense to allocate "rending" wounds from Telion on the broodlord first.

[Gornall]

Legatus is right. You cannot break the allocation rules, so you cannot put 2 wounds on one model unless all the other models in the unit have a wound allocated to them.

 

There is some contention about how exactly you're allowed to stack EoV wounds. Some people say you can never stack them both on the same target (even if there are enough scout wounds for wrap-around) because you allocate them both before your opponent allocates any. My group plays it where Telion gets to allocate his wounds first for each "round" of wound allocation, so if there is enough to wrap around the unit, he is allowed to double up both on the same model. YMMV

[MechSpacewulf]

Thanks, that got my head on straight about the rule, makes sense now.

[Legatus]

There is some contention about how exactly you're allowed to stack EoV wounds. Some people say you can never stack them both on the same target (even if there are enough scout wounds for wrap-around) because you allocate them both before your opponent allocates any.

You roll for all hits and then all wounds of teh unit simultaneously (even if you roll separately for weapons, the "steps" happen at teh same time). So at the point where wounds are allocated to models, you would know whether some models in the unit can get two wounds allocated to them or not. If there are enough wounds so that a model could get two wounds allocated to it, both of Telion's inflicted wounds can be allocated legally to one model.

[Gornall]

There is some contention about how exactly you're allowed to stack EoV wounds. Some people say you can never stack them both on the same target (even if there are enough scout wounds for wrap-around) because you allocate them both before your opponent allocates any.

You roll for all hits and then all wounds of teh unit simultaneously (even if you roll separately for weapons, the "steps" happen at teh same time). So at the point where wounds are allocated to models, you would know whether some models in the unit can get two wounds allocated to them or not. If there are enough wounds so that a model could get two wounds allocated to it, both of Telion's inflicted wounds can be allocated legally to one model.

 

That's pretty much how we play it, but I've heard of some people arguing against that.

[MechSpacewulf]

I am going to find and FAQ and even try out the Adepticons FAQ and see what I find however I would like to know the arguements against what you wrote and what they would be founded on. Don't want to mess myself up too bad now that I am getting a basic feel for the rule.

[Gornall]

Their argument is VERY RAW oriented. Page 25 of the BRB:

 

The player must allocate one wound to each model in the target unit before he can allocate a second wound to the same model.

 

Once all models in the target unit have one wound allocated to them, the process is repeated.

 

Their argument is that because the process is iterative, Telion allocates both of his wounds in the first round, before the target player allocates any. My gaming group allows Telion to allocate first in both the first and second round, which allows him to stack two wounds on the same target if there are enough wounds.

[Legatus]

Their argument is that because the process is iterative, Telion allocates both of his wounds in the first round, before the target player allocates any. My gaming group allows Telion to allocate first in both the first and second round, which allows him to stack two wounds on the same target if there are enough wounds.

It does not really matter either way whether you allocate both of Telions wounds immediately to one model because it is known that a model can have two wounds allocated to it due to the total amount of wounds or whether you alocate one wound from telion first, then wait for the opposing player to give every remaining model of the unit a single wound, and then allocate Telions second wound. What matters is that Telions wounds are alocated by the player controling Telion, and that he allocates Telions wounds in a manner so that they are legally allocated. There is not really a "round" where wounds are allocated one batch at a time. All wounds suffered by one enemy unit's fire are inflicted simultaneously, but there are rules describing how they have to be distributed. If there are 5 models which suffer 8 wounds, three models suffer 2 wounds each and two models suffer 1 wound each. If two of those wounds come from Telion, he can put them both on one single model. If it had been only 4 wounds, he would have to allocate each wound to a different of the five models because no model could legally get two wounds allocated to it.

[Gornall]

Right. I was just saying the argument I've heard against allowing him to place both on the same model in a wrap-around situation so the OP would know what he might hear at some point.

[Lord Humongous]

A simpler way to look at it is this:

Allocate Tellions wounds however you like, even if it looks like it would not be legal. The the other player has to allocate the rest of the wounds in such a way as to make if legal. If that's not possible, then re-allocate Tellion's wounds and try again.

[greatcrusade08]

I did some digging on this subject for the scout rules FAQ article, it can be found by clicking the link in my sig.

Basically to keep it from becoming an argument, you have to assume you HAVE to follow standard wound allocation rules, as in you cant allocate both wounds to the same model, unless all other models have at least one wound each...

at my LGS we allocate Telions wounds first as they are 'special' which means we never get to put 2 wounds on the same model anyway, it also stops guys putting a normal shot on the special guys in order to stop Telions woudns being allocated to them (only really stops rending shots)

 

GC08

[Seahawk]

my LGS we allocate Telions wounds first as they are 'special' which means we never get to put 2 wounds on the same model anyway

House rules are well and good, but appear to only hose you in the end ^_^.

 

Allocate Tellions wounds however you like, even if it looks like it would not be legal. The the other player has to allocate the rest of the wounds in such a way as to make if legal. If that's not possible, then re-allocate Tellion's wounds and try again.

This is more correct. Essentially, both players are competing where to put Telion's wounds; the victim doesn't want them stacked (typically) and the shooter does (typically). If it works out legally, great, if not, redo.

[greatcrusade08]

You have it right, i was just trying to say that in order to save complication and potential arguments, its often best to allow yourself to get nerfed a little...lets face it your still getting one shot on the target right?

 

GC08

[Gornall]

For 50 points, Telion can't afford to get nerfed anymore... I want my two wounds on the same target, dang it! :D Seriously though, as long as you cover this up front and don't surprise your opponent, I don't see him/her denying you the ability to stack wounds if there is enough wrap around. 9/10 your opponent will be pretty gracious about things as long as it's not coming up for the first time in the thick of battle.