My first battle Sister vs. new Guard

[Corpse.]

I find the new IG are weaker then before. (Hear me out)

 

First, the temptation in taking an unbalanced number of vehicles and an improper view of those vehicles drawbacks and uses leans them to make more mistakes in priorities.

 

Next, vehicle squadrons. The closest vehicle is counted for the armor facing you hit, and that facing is what you hit the ENTIRE squadron at. If you can hit the side of a leman russ, they fall like armored sentinels. If you can get close he cant fire his battlecannons or be forced to move to shoot them.

 

Most IG players stress for space and deploy their troops haphazardly. (I train my IG friend hard to deploy with spread out units, units that arent DIRECTLY on the deployment line - to prevent melee for a turn, to move away when I get close to avoid melee blocking his vehicles line of sight, etc). So that can easily be taken advantage of, most IG players dont get how a proper gunline army works.

 

Next, their troops cause cover saves, so high AP weapons in horde guard will have to be in front, making them vulnerable. Plasma guns are shorter range (your range), and his heavy hitting guns all suffer instant death. Excorcists can remove entire lascannon heavy weapons teams. (Now my autocannon havocs have a solid use, lol)

 

I love sisters of battle, I never play with them but they are an army that has my interest. Waiting for plastic though =p.

 

I still think with all the new toys, IG split their army up far too much. An experienced eldar player will play a Guard army better then a IG veteran player would play it. Simply because the training in which units main use is more direct for Eldar, so then he learns the curve of what units are supposed to do, and what their main damage range/use is in the game. An IG player may focus on one or two elements, and just be overwhelmed by the detail of what should do what and be where at what time. (Thats why I help my IG friend, he wouyld just deploy the same way EVERY game, blaming the dice for his losses every game...) I felt bad, so I gave him tips. He never deploys the same way twice anymore. (HE even has tried baiting, and sacrificing squads when I'm 8" away, move 6" and run the last inches so I cant move any closer, with his rear squad right behind to stop me from using the D6 consolodation to get closer, and his squad would die the turn I charge them so I am forced to take a HEAVY rapid fire toll) he came up with that all by himself. It took him two years to get there. So proud of him, lol.

 

Anyways, IG are hard to manage as a whole, and with all the toys a battle plan should be made first. Its sort of easy to tell the clever from the compulsive. I think you guys wont have too hard a time with IG until way later.

[deepstrike]

corpse...

you should fight some good imperial guard players LOL. seriously though good guard players aren't blinded by the bling but we are very excited about the units that are actually effective. Cheaper infantry squads, cheaper chimera and leman russ buff make armies large enough for sections to be self supporting. These three things are the hard center of the army.

[Melissia]

IG troops are no issue, and even their tanks are meh given how expensive they are-- a squadron of Leman Russ tanks? I can wipe that out with my exorcist in a single turn if I get a lucky roll, and my exorcist is a lot cheaper. It's mostly their artillery that worries me, but then I suppose a cheap Seraphim squad deep striked behind their lines can deal with that.

[Imperator Mos]

You're not taking into consideration the new vehicle variants and upgrades. Improved cover saves, BS 4 upgraded characters, lots more ap 2-3.Never mind the new assassin they got, or Valkyries, or veteran squads. Hell, I can make a whole army just out of those veteran squads, with all their options. I'll take a veteran squad against a SOB squad for the win thank you.

 

I love my Inquisition, and you'll see at least one Inquisitor leading my Death Korps, becuase codex WH is goin on the shelf for a while. As long as the Imperium triumphs, I'm happy.

[Melissia]

Cover saves? Hello, do you realize what faction I play? Cover saves are a non-issue to the Sisters of Battle.

 

BS4 upgraded characters? Mine ara BS5 with better close combat equipment.

 

AP2-3 pieplate? They always had those. They might come inj different forms now yes, but nothing that we haen't already had to deal with.

 

New assassin? No wory, just one model that can be taken out, not like he's abby.

 

Valkyries? Shoot 'em down like any other non-eldar skimmer.

 

Veterans? They will die just as easilly as normal squads, but they're more expensive. A veteran squad will still suffer under a rapid fire burst with flamer/heavy flamer laid on them, and heavy flamers will ignore their armor even if they have carapace armor-- meaning lots of wounds on those t3 models.

 

 

 

Why yes, I think I am taking everything into consideration. But the fact is, I don't play INquisitino. I don't feel the need to waste points on inquisition crap, because I play Sisters of Battle. To this army, the Guard got stronger, but not unfairly so-- the guard NEEDED a buff. They still die to bolter rounds and flamer templates which ignore their armor unless you purchase carapace. They still die in droves to heavy flamers and heavy bolters. Their tanks ae still blown up by meltaguns, and in fact die even easier now that they can come in squadrons (don't forget that seraphim get krak nades for free, s any assault by them is giong to be deadly even without melta bombs). They still suffer in close combat against our 3+ saves and superior leadership / morale rules (and superior fighters in the form of celetians and seraphim). The only difference is that I have to play a bit smarter than before.

[Grand Master Iapetus]

Squadding the tanks does bring some benefits - they can't be shaken, and the owning player determines the allotment of hits - IE: you can conceivably stack all pens in a round of shooting on one vehicle and I'm sure there are other sneaky tricks too...

 

One thing I haven't seen mentioned is the Callidus. (Apologies to the pure SOB / GK folks). She gets behind the lines could potentially take down command squads / HQs...

[Warp Angel]

Squadding the tanks does bring some benefits - they can't be shaken, and the owning player determines the allotment of hits - IE: you can conceivably stack all pens in a round of shooting on one vehicle and I'm sure there are other sneaky tricks too...

 

One thing I haven't seen mentioned is the Callidus. (Apologies to the pure SOB / GK folks). She gets behind the lines could potentially take down command squads / HQs...

 

Every 4 krak grenades will glance or pen a moving vehicle. Every 2 krak grenades will do the same thing to a stationary vehicle.

Against vehicles 2/3 of your glances mean the vehicle can't shoot, even with ignoring "stunned".

1/6 of your glances will kill all but the last vehicle outright (something a normal glance can't do)

The final 1/6 of your glances will take out the main gun.

 

Against a normal tank, the odds are very high that all you're going to do is shake or stun it with a 10 man assault with krak grenades. Against a squadron of vehicles, the odds are very high that you'll prevent two or more of them from shooting for a turn.

 

This creates a kill gap in your favor that you can continue to exploit.

 

The same principle applies to shooting.

 

If you know of a way to get a total of four solid hits (two glances and two pens) against a vehicle squadron in a turn to "abuse" the allocating of penetrating hits on a reliable basis, please let me know.

 

I see squadrons as a liability to recieving incoming damage. I see Exorcists as being wrecking machines against AV12 and under, and I see melta equipped sisters squads being the same thing against guard tank squadrons with heavier armor. The trick will be dealing with both the armor and the troops.

[Melissia]

Dealing with the troops won't be too hard. Rapid fire bolters. Oh look, lots of dead Guardsmen!

 

Add in a flamer / heavy flamer combo, and you might quite possibly cause more unsaved wounds than there are models in the squad. Or even cause multiple squads to be destroyed in a single turn depending on how you aim your flamers. Could also choose to just flame and then assautl too, to prevent the enemy from focus-firing on your troops the nex tturn (assuming you don't cause them to immediently route).

[boreas]

Dealing with the troops won't be too hard. Rapid fire bolters. Oh look, lots of dead Guardsmen!

 

The problem is that the average IG army, if lead and built by a competent player, will be able to perform a lot more "actions" per turn than you will. He has a lot, and I mean a lot, more shooting at every range. If you get out of your rhinos, you will kill that 50pts unit most of the time. That's with your basic 160pts unit (sisters with no upgrade whatsoever). But then, you have to face a pie-plate (that itself cost about 160pts or less!)... If you stay in your tank, you have to roll all across a field under heavy fire. Sisters are one of the best army against IG, I think. But it won't ever be a walk in the park. Many a round will end by "Oh look, lots of dead sisters!".

 

Fighting IG, like any other real 5th ed codex, is an uphill battle. Let's just be happy that our army has naturally lots of anti-tank and anti-horde. And that mastering the IG codex, with it's many unit, orders, rules, etc will be hard.

 

Phil

[Grand Master Iapetus]

This creates a kill gap in your favor that you can continue to exploit.

 

The same principle applies to shooting.

 

If you know of a way to get a total of four solid hits (two glances and two pens) against a vehicle squadron in a turn to "abuse" the allocating of penetrating hits on a reliable basis, please let me know.

 

You are spot on - I was simply trying to point out that there are some benefits to the guard, but I think ours still outweigh theirs.

 

However, let me try and clarify using your example: With 3 vehicles, you could stack both Pens on one vehicle. So you only lose one from a destroyed perspective. You could do the same thing on stacking the Pens with 2 vehicles that are left the following turn (assuming you lost the one vehicle that took the Pens). Not a good strategy for the guard, but if you are contesting an objective it works AND you just took a ton of your firepower you could have applied elsewhere.

 

Even more, in a CC situation vs. a shooty one - if they are not walkers, you are certainly going to lose the attacking squad before they get to attack a second round since your naked troops would not be locked in combat. If I am a guard player and you just toasted one of my shiny new Hellhound or Leman variants that I spent hours painting and am fielding for the first time, that squad WILL die...

 

(Edited for grammar)