deus lo volt Posted May 2, 2009 Share Posted May 2, 2009 I just finished reading the short story Call of the Lion and thought the ending was absolutely fantastic! Who do you think the Lion is gonna side with? Initially I thought Belath, but the more I thought about the betrayal I think the Lion will support Astelan. Thoughts? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/167547-call-of-the-lion/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pacific81 Posted May 3, 2009 Share Posted May 3, 2009 All I will say is.. read Angels of Darkness by gav Thorpe for the answer to that question :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/167547-call-of-the-lion/#findComment-1974982 Share on other sites More sharing options...
deus lo volt Posted May 3, 2009 Author Share Posted May 3, 2009 I will. Thanks! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/167547-call-of-the-lion/#findComment-1975048 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sons of Horus Posted May 3, 2009 Share Posted May 3, 2009 since you said spoilers are allowed anyway here's one Astelan becomes a Fallen Angel. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/167547-call-of-the-lion/#findComment-1975172 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyear Posted May 3, 2009 Share Posted May 3, 2009 It could be though our 'friend' for those who's read Gav's book, was lying. We'll just have to wait and see until the new Dark Angels book comes out.. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/167547-call-of-the-lion/#findComment-1975198 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pacific81 Posted May 3, 2009 Share Posted May 3, 2009 For a couple of years many DA fans, those who really didn't like the direction that Gav Thorpe had taken with Angels of Darkness, used exactly this as a line of defence - exactly as you have said Tyear, that there was always the possibility that Astelan was lying or an agent of chaos in some form. You have to remember there was a lot of indignation generated by that book, but then thats always the way when anything comes along and upsets the applecart. However, we now have another, seperate short story, written from a 3rd person narrative (and therefore removing the argument of an individuals corruption influencing their take on events) that would seem to directly corroborate the turn of events of AoD. As to whether the Lion is going to come out of the Heresy with a spotless conscience, I think its pretty obvious for anyone who has read both those stories to come to the same conclusion on this one... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/167547-call-of-the-lion/#findComment-1975232 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyear Posted May 3, 2009 Share Posted May 3, 2009 Yeah I know it's quite shoe-horned in, but who knows, maybe the Lion won't be the aggressor. We'll just have to wait and see, can say I'm excited about that book though. For me that book (AoD) and Brothers of the Snake, were two stories that really showed me what Space Marines were. Not Uriel Ventris and his one-armed sidekick. B) But that's straying from the point, right now. I'm just waiting to see who draws first blood, Luther or the Lion. *Hides from angry Dark Angels* :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/167547-call-of-the-lion/#findComment-1975238 Share on other sites More sharing options...
talos402000 Posted May 4, 2009 Share Posted May 4, 2009 Yeah I know it's quite shoe-horned in, but who knows, maybe the Lion won't be the aggressor. We'll just have to wait and see, can say I'm excited about that book though. For me that book (AoD) and Brothers of the Snake, were two stories that really showed me what Space Marines were. Not Uriel Ventris and his one-armed sidekick. :P But that's straying from the point, right now. I'm just waiting to see who draws first blood, Luther or the Lion. *Hides from angry Dark Angels* :P Here's the quote from the Black Library: As news of Horus’s treachery spreads, the Great Crusade grinds to a halt as the primarchs and their Legions decide where their loyalty lies – with the Emperor, or the rebel Warmaster Horus. In this sequel to Descent of Angels, the Dark Angels too face a time of testing, both in the stars, and on their home world, Caliban. Arriving in the Gehinnom system, Lion’el Jonson and a force of Dark Angels set about subjugating the system’s core worlds which are key to the Warmaster’s plans to overthrow the Emperor You know, that blurb makes it sound like Lionel is subjugating those worlds for Horus, not aginst him. I think we already have our answer as to where Lionel's loyalties lie... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/167547-call-of-the-lion/#findComment-1976055 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted May 4, 2009 Share Posted May 4, 2009 Yeah I know it's quite shoe-horned in, but who knows, maybe the Lion won't be the aggressor. We'll just have to wait and see, can say I'm excited about that book though. For me that book (AoD) and Brothers of the Snake, were two stories that really showed me what Space Marines were. Not Uriel Ventris and his one-armed sidekick. ;) But that's straying from the point, right now. I'm just waiting to see who draws first blood, Luther or the Lion. *Hides from angry Dark Angels* :P Here's the quote from the Black Library: As news of Horus’s treachery spreads, the Great Crusade grinds to a halt as the primarchs and their Legions decide where their loyalty lies – with the Emperor, or the rebel Warmaster Horus. In this sequel to Descent of Angels, the Dark Angels too face a time of testing, both in the stars, and on their home world, Caliban. Arriving in the Gehinnom system, Lion’el Jonson and a force of Dark Angels set about subjugating the system’s core worlds which are key to the Warmaster’s plans to overthrow the Emperor You know, that blurb makes it sound like Lionel is subjugating those worlds for Horus, not aginst him. I think we already have our answer as to where Lionel's loyalties lie... but remember, this theory has been in existence since the Angel of Darkness book, maybe GW finally got smart and is messing with our heads... :P or then agaain, maybe all the dress wearing girls are traitors :P WOLF LORD kieran Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/167547-call-of-the-lion/#findComment-1976077 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyear Posted May 4, 2009 Share Posted May 4, 2009 Well it could be that the Lion has not heard from Terra about the whole Horus Heresy, so when he receives his orders, he goes. "Oh.. Okay!", and goes off to happily conquer that System of planets unbeknown to him that he's helping the Traitor Warmaster that is Horus. I'm actually more excited to see this book then to see the SW/TS books. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/167547-call-of-the-lion/#findComment-1976088 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sons of Horus Posted May 4, 2009 Share Posted May 4, 2009 Obviously the Lion had not yet heard of the whole Heresy and still assumed Horus to be loyal. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/167547-call-of-the-lion/#findComment-1976161 Share on other sites More sharing options...
clanfield Posted May 4, 2009 Share Posted May 4, 2009 dark angels you just cannt trust em,what a great idea though Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/167547-call-of-the-lion/#findComment-1976178 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucifer Fellblade Posted May 4, 2009 Share Posted May 4, 2009 Well at least when Fallen Angels comes around we'll get a version of the events written by somebody other than Gav Thorpe. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/167547-call-of-the-lion/#findComment-1976387 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imriel Posted May 4, 2009 Share Posted May 4, 2009 Yeah I know it's quite shoe-horned in, but who knows, maybe the Lion won't be the aggressor. We'll just have to wait and see, can say I'm excited about that book though. For me that book (AoD) and Brothers of the Snake, were two stories that really showed me what Space Marines were. Not Uriel Ventris and his one-armed sidekick. :P But that's straying from the point, right now. I'm just waiting to see who draws first blood, Luther or the Lion. *Hides from angry Dark Angels* :D Here's the quote from the Black Library: As news of Horus’s treachery spreads, the Great Crusade grinds to a halt as the primarchs and their Legions decide where their loyalty lies – with the Emperor, or the rebel Warmaster Horus. In this sequel to Descent of Angels, the Dark Angels too face a time of testing, both in the stars, and on their home world, Caliban. Arriving in the Gehinnom system, Lion’el Jonson and a force of Dark Angels set about subjugating the system’s core worlds which are key to the Warmaster’s plans to overthrow the Emperor You know, that blurb makes it sound like Lionel is subjugating those worlds for Horus, not aginst him. I think we already have our answer as to where Lionel's loyalties lie... Only if you ignore the bits of story in the Art book that basicly say Horus doesn't know what the Dark Angels are up to (when he sends Night Hunter on a mission he warns that the DA have been seen in the area). Also according to This Thread Jonson will be deffending against an attack from the Sons of Horus. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/167547-call-of-the-lion/#findComment-1976753 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pacific81 Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 Well at least when Fallen Angels comes around we'll get a version of the events written by somebody other than Gav Thorpe. The thing is the new book isn't going to contradict whats already been said by Thorpe.. all of the HH series writers are reading from the same page as it were, with all of the authors in regular communication with each other and having to seek approval from Alan Merrett before making significant plot decisions. What this means is for those Dark Angels fans who like their favourite legion to wear spotless white undies are going to be in for a bit of a shock come Fallen Angels... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/167547-call-of-the-lion/#findComment-1977152 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadDoc Posted May 11, 2009 Share Posted May 11, 2009 The thing is the new book isn't going to contradict whats already been said by Thorpe.. all of the HH series writers are reading from the same page as it were, with all of the authors in regular communication with each other and having to seek approval from Alan Merrett before making significant plot decisions. What this means is for those Dark Angels fans who like their favourite legion to wear spotless white undies are going to be in for a bit of a shock come Fallen Angels... Except that Mike Lee said very clearly in the Spoilers section of Black Library forum that he hadn't even read Gav's story before he wrote Fallen Angels. And the fact that the majority of the Marines seen to be sent back to Caliban thus far are Calibanites not Terrans, which runs in contradiction to Astelans claims in AoD that the Lion didn't trust the Terrans, and favoured the Calibanites over them, sure he may have gotten a raw deal from Belath (who comes across as a git in Call of the Lion) but his isolated experience with Belath (who quite likely lied about events when he reported them, thats how he comes across) does not a pattern make. Also bare in mind that the only mention of Astelans 'story' is in Angels of Darkness which is not a part of the Heresy series... the fact that Gav tried reinforcing Astelan's claims in Call of the Lion means absolutely zip until we know whats in Fallen Angels. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/167547-call-of-the-lion/#findComment-1983860 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pacific81 Posted May 11, 2009 Share Posted May 11, 2009 Interesting *rubs chin*, and good post MadDoc (welcome to the forum by the way, I recognise you from Warseer I believe!) It will be interesting to see how the Dark Angels develop throughout the Heresy. Is their 'great shame' really only that some of their legion back on their homeworld turned to chaos? Personally I was hoping for something more, and while this is only my personal opinion, I don't believe that Gav Thorpe would have been given the go-ahead to write Son of the Lion (which essentially follows the ethos of Angels of Darkness. i.e. The Lion is a bit of an arse) without their being at least some repercussions for how the Heresy effects the 1st Legion. At least, if I were a betting man, I'm pretty sure where I would place my wager on how the story is going to develop (although I admit this is based on the information as we have it before Fallen Angels) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/167547-call-of-the-lion/#findComment-1984478 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imriel Posted May 12, 2009 Share Posted May 12, 2009 At least, if I were a betting man, I'm pretty sure where I would place my wager on how the story is going to develop (although I admit this is based on the information as we have it before Fallen Angels) Did you check out the thread I liked? It has some info from Mike Lee saying the DA will be fighting the Sons of Horus. Also, as I remember, back when Angels of Darkness came out, as a responce to all the ferver Gav had Owen Rees post a message on the B&C pointing out that Astelan was an admited traitor and perhaps couldn't be taken at face value. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/167547-call-of-the-lion/#findComment-1984899 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted May 12, 2009 Share Posted May 12, 2009 At least, if I were a betting man, I'm pretty sure where I would place my wager on how the story is going to develop (although I admit this is based on the information as we have it before Fallen Angels) Did you check out the thread I liked? It has some info from Mike Lee saying the DA will be fighting the Sons of Horus. Also, as I remember, back when Angels of Darkness came out, as a responce to all the ferver Gav had Owen Rees post a message on the B&C pointing out that Astelan was an admited traitor and perhaps couldn't be taken at face value. and we all know that Owen Rees isnt biased at all... WLK Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/167547-call-of-the-lion/#findComment-1984978 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beef Posted May 12, 2009 Share Posted May 12, 2009 And the fact that the majority of the Marines seen to be sent back to Caliban thus far are Calibanites not Terrans, which runs in contradiction to Astelans claims in AoD that the Lion didn't trust the Terrans, and favoured the Calibanites over them, sure he may have gotten a raw deal from Belath (who comes across as a git in Call of the Lion) but his isolated experience with Belath (who quite likely lied about events when he reported them, thats how he comes across) does not a pattern make. The thing to bear in mind is you have different marines in the DA. you have terran born who served with the emp before Lional took over, You have caliban born who served with Luther and lional before the emp came along And you have caliban born after lional takes over the DA legion. Each group will view him differently. so far we have seen the first and second group sent to caliban. the 3rd group would be the most loyal to lional and hence kept with him. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/167547-call-of-the-lion/#findComment-1985103 Share on other sites More sharing options...
exsulis81 Posted June 11, 2009 Share Posted June 11, 2009 For a couple of years many DA fans, those who really didn't like the direction that Gav Thorpe had taken with Angels of Darkness, used exactly this as a line of defence - exactly as you have said Tyear, that there was always the possibility that Astelan was lying or an agent of chaos in some form. You have to remember there was a lot of indignation generated by that book, but then thats always the way when anything comes along and upsets the applecart. However, we now have another, seperate short story, written from a 3rd person narrative (and therefore removing the argument of an individuals corruption influencing their take on events) that would seem to directly corroborate the turn of events of AoD. As to whether the Lion is going to come out of the Heresy with a spotless conscience, I think its pretty obvious for anyone who has read both those stories to come to the same conclusion on this one... You have to remember there are a couple short stories that say the Lion was the traitor. Granted, they are pretty terrible additions but they are there. There is another option you are fogetting that is tied around the fallen, Chaos corrupts, and mutates. Sure, they may not have changed outwardly but what is the say that much raw chaos hasn't warped their perpective either? Even Astelan was once a great protector of mankind, and in the end he was destroying his own people for his need to control. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/167547-call-of-the-lion/#findComment-2018834 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raven Angel Posted June 12, 2009 Share Posted June 12, 2009 As a DA player I would really like to see The Lion reddemed after whats been written and will have to wait and see, but my gut is telling me that ant going to happen and that I better get used to not liking the sorceof my geneseed. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/167547-call-of-the-lion/#findComment-2019237 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terrahawk Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 As a DA player I would really like to see The Lion reddemed after whats been written and will have to wait and see, but my gut is telling me that ant going to happen and that I better get used to not liking the sorceof my geneseed. I think you are going to be pleasantly surprised. That is all... :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/167547-call-of-the-lion/#findComment-2024693 Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackoption Posted June 20, 2009 Share Posted June 20, 2009 As a DA player I would really like to see The Lion reddemed after whats been written and will have to wait and see, but my gut is telling me that ant going to happen and that I better get used to not liking the sorceof my geneseed. I think you are going to be pleasantly surprised. That is all... ;) I think you must have read Fallen Angels. Though us in the US have to wait for a bit longer before it goes on shelves. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/167547-call-of-the-lion/#findComment-2027408 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Severus6 Posted June 21, 2009 Share Posted June 21, 2009 Based on everything I read, it seems to me that the Lion was always a bit of "fence sitter". Basically said, he hedged his bets with both groups in the game. I always got the impression that neither Horus nor the Emp really knew where the Lion would place his loyalties,... and that is exactly how the Lion wanted it. He moved moved troops and ships to areas that were strategically important to both the Emp and Horus. He maintained a very passive aggressive defence: "I am here now and I have not openly declared for either one of you cats; its your move now." Story wise, it can be absolutely infuriating as both sides claim that they were/are in the "right". Strategically its brilliant and leaves both guessing as to where and when, if ever, the Lion will play his hand. Who is to say that the Lion wouldnt have set out if he could. Let both groups beat each other to a bloody pulp and then declare neutrality,....? Severus6 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/167547-call-of-the-lion/#findComment-2027971 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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