Call of the Lion

[deus lo volt]

I'm convinced that Astelan did not "Fall."

 

It's all in the last paragraph of the story. Belath didn't send his report to the Lion, he sent it to Caliban..........HQ of the Luther branch of DAs. Curious?

 

I really need to read that other book! ;)

[Beef]

Spoilers to answer some questions as to the Lions loyalties from the new HH DA book

 

 

 

 

it has Astallan in it. Put it this way Lional finds out about the heresy, Remeber he always felt as first legion he should have nbeen warmaster, Arrogant yes. He decides he will step in and save the emp and then be declared the new warmaster. Unfortunatly it looks like Luthors and astalan will fall and become traiter. But it does show that the lion was self centered and believed that he would have been a better warmaster than horus. He believed if the EMp found him first rather than Horus he would have been gauranteed the position of Warmaster.

 

[Pacific81]

As a DA player I would really like to see The Lion reddemed after whats been written and will have to wait and see, but my gut is telling me that ant going to happen and that I better get used to not liking the sorceof my geneseed.

 

I think you are going to be pleasantly surprised. That is all... ;)

 

++++ SPOILERS ++++

 

Had the last chapter not been included in the book, I would have agreed with you wholeheartedly there Terrahawk - certainly, everything within Fallen Angels seem to be set for the decent of Luther and the Calabanites into Chaos, and the return of a righteous Lion to destroy his homeworld. But, that last chapter.. :P

 

As Beef has said, we know that the Lion is extremely ambitious. Many would have placed him as Warmaster rather than Horus, and this is obviously something he believes regarding his conversation with Perturabo. Futhermore, he specifically doesnt list his support for the Emperor, rather the Imperium itself. He believes that Horus has played his cards too early, and the 3 legions pledging their support for him will be overwhelmingly crushed by the Emperor's loyalists, leaving him to claim his rightful place as Warmaster within a renewed Imperium. However, the basis for this loyalty it could be argued is based upon a false preconception - i.e. the sure defeat of Horus.

 

Now consider this: the 3 heretical legions become 7, 3 of the loyalist legions are effectively crushed, and most of the others are either emboiled in battles of their own or heavily hamstrung (the Blood Angels and Ultramarines) as a result of Horus' clever manouvering. Suddenly, the result does not look clear cut, and certainly at one point would seem to be swaying in favour of Horus. At which point, judging the cold and calculating character of Lion, would it be likely that he would throw himself and his legion in a futile battle against the victorious Horus and his new Imperium, or would he instead pledge his allegiance to Horus' new vision and take his place in its new crusade?

 

We know that the Lion is not intrinsically either naive or dispossessed towards the powers of chaos - I think in this manner, his confiscation of the chaos tomes held by the Knights of Lupus is indicative of this, as was his upbringing amongst its corruptive nature in the forests of Caliban. He also seems constantly unable to judge others either by their intent or their personality (hence him having to ask for opinions on whether someone was sincere or not). In short, Rogal Dorn or Roboute Gulliman he is not.

 

My opinion is that, contrary to the prevailing discussion that Thorpe's version of events will be pushed completely to the side and the Heresy for the Dark Angels be re-written, the conclusion of Fallen Angels is far more open ended than it might otherwise first appear. Not only is there still time for the Lion to wait to 'See who will win', but the new, rather darker Lion, seems to actively suggest that this will be the case.

Just my 2 stikk bombz ;)

[Raven Angel]

The implication then is that it's the Lion the fell and the hunt for the Fallen then is infact a coverup to prevent that from becoming a matter of public knowledge. The watchers then are not gaurding him until he's needed but imprisoning him to prevent his escape. They would also be closly watching the Dark Angels to insure the rest of them don't go over to chaos. Oh Bad Thoughts, Bad Thoughts! :)

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

@pacific81

I just finished reading the end of fallen angels, and i got to say that last chapter only proves his total inability to judge people, and his utter resentment at not being named warmaster, but his loyalty is not in question. it pretty must says that the emperor will need a new warmaster, and he wants it to be him. and here comes the perfect way to garner support.

 

he thinks he is a strategic mastermind, but doesnt know that greater powers than him are also playing the game, at a far larger scope.

 

all this from a wolf lord.

 

what is awesome is the train wreck we all know is coming...i cant wait to see the lion upon his return to caliban...

 

WLK

[Chaplain ChonkE]

Well it might be more appropriate to say the Lion didnt fall to Chaos worship at this time. Just because he did not delve into the worship of the Empyrean doesnt mean he did not betray his oaths, promises and duty to the Emperor and the Imperium by sitting it out.

 

Allowing all the HH events to take place without taking some sort of active stand or involvement in either camp is as large a betrayal as worshiping the Skull Throne. It would make me feel better if he were completely manipulated by Horus, the Warp Gods and betrayed his oaths that way rather than let the Imperium burn for his own self-gain.

 

Its like this time I my friend and I got jumped by a bunch of guys in a grocery store parking lot. Our other "friend" jumped back in the car and locked the doors as we got pummeled (he could have at least got my friend's car-keys and started it up for a getaway lol). He obviously felt that the time was not right for him to get involved and sat out for his own gain. In his own mind he was playing it smart, but from his "bro's/friend's" points of view? Betrayal :P

 

I'm sure the other Legions would have felt no differently if they knew what the Lion was up to in regards to his goals when the HH officially started.

[Pacific81]

Ah, my good friend WL Kieran, I was waiting for you to post on here :tu:

Read the final chapter again, see if you can find any mention of loyalty to the 'Emperor' again - The Lion speaks a lot of loyalty, but loyalty to the Imperium, not specifically an outright loyalty to his father. Note that Horus uses very similar language in his justification for the heresy, believing that his father stands ready to squandor the realm of man that has been carved out of the galaxy by he and the other Primarchs.

 

Furthermore, the Lion does not show massive consternation that Horus has rebelled, in the same way that Rogal Dorn in Flight of the Eisenstein and Ferrus Mannus in Fulgrim exhibit - that total disbelief that Astartes could possibly fighting another brother Astartes. Note that there is a similar lack of gravitas when Lion first breaks the news of the Heresy earlier on in the book - the Astartes in the room seem far more awestruck and disbelieving, and the Primarch incredibly cool in the situation.

 

And, having believed that Horus has made a fatal error and he and his 3 traitor legions will be easily crushed, the Lion's thoughts have turned immediately to his own position as the rightful Warmaster at the head of the Imperium.. a judgement call that will change entirely when fully 7 legions side with Horus, and the position of the Emperor and loyalists begins to look incredibly precarious.

 

I guess we have no way of knowing for sure what will happen concernin the Dark Angels yet, but what is beyond dispute following Fallen Angels is that the Lion has been revealed to be a cold and calculating character with a deep rooted ambition, and does not have the overwhelming righteousness or level of loyalty it was believed he possessed previously. Chaplain ChonkE, I agree that 'sitting on the fence' might be considered a dispicable act (and I guess your own personal experience of this is going to effect things), but in pure logical terms, and devoid of any emotional or moral weighting behind his decisions, not flinging his legion towards one side of the heresy or the other makes perfect sense - As Astelan has pointed out earlier, the Lion was far too good a tactician to do otherwise.

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

hey pacific, long time no see. yea, i have been keeping out of these forums for a bit now, as nothing extremely worth debating has popped up. only the loken dead or alive and the who would win thing between abby and loken. everything is modeling questions and such, which i am not experienced enough to comment on...but for now, to debate!

 

his comment on the bottom of page 411 shows, to me, that he has sided with the Emperor.

 

"So I can count upon you as the time comes? I feel the Emperor will need to chose a new Warmaster very quickly if the Great Crusade is to continue". Maybe not the best proof, but for me it seems like he is declaring who he supports. (it would be better if he said the Emperor's name to make it clear, but with his name never being revealed, that is kinda hard)

 

The book goes to extreme details to show the Lion's lack of connection with his Marines, you could even argue humanity. What took me by suprise was how he addressed his fellow primarch in the epilouge, not with the brother, as is common so far, but cousin. i think this is very telling of how he sees people, even fellow primarchs, as tools for him to prove his greatness, and earn glory.

By this distantness, the cold, aloof Lion is detached enough not to have the temper tandrum that DOrn showed in FotE, but reather dealt with this in the manner he deals with everything. cold and pragmatically. which to me shows why his reaction is subdued.

He does let some emotion slip twice though, upon the destruction of the Sons of Horus's invasion (page 377) where he showed his ruthless stance towards betrayers and then again in the epilogue, page 409, where he states the Magos betrayed him. i think this is a foreshadowing of why caliban is so ruthlessly destroyed.

 

and Chaplain Chonke, the Lion, according to the epilogue, doesnt plan to sit on the sidelines, but is prepping his legion for the journey to Terra...what delays him is going to be very interesting onces its revealed

 

my two cents.

 

WLK

[Chaplain ChonkE]

Well, he is taking active steps to solidify his position in the eyes of both sides as you earlier mentioned. Placing himself where he can come in for the highest gain! As an ardent loyalist (in my mind at least) I just feel like such action is as bad or worse than siding with Horus and the Warp Gods. And yes, being that it seems he is completely self-serving, the Lion would of course side with the Emperor pre-Istvaan since it looks like the Loyalists are going to hollow the planet out at first.

 

And the Lion is no dolt! The Lion is wise for hedging his bets, but it doesnt stop me from thinking he is a oathbreaker and a kinslayer in regards to his cavalier attitude towards his liege, or endear me to his character. It seems consistently in the books the Lion uses lies, deceit and other tools to get what he needs done with neither thought nor care to the collateral done if it is for his glory. I always felt like the Lion would be the epitome of the noble beast, but it seems he is characterized as a paranoid megalomaniac. Maybe I am just disappointed in how he is written. Either way, I hope more is revealed and not too much is revealed :huh: Good stuff!

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

Well, he is taking active steps to solidify his position in the eyes of both sides as you earlier mentioned. Placing himself where he can come in for the highest gain! As an ardent loyalist (in my mind at least) I just feel like such action is as bad or worse than siding with Horus and the Warp Gods. And yes, being that it seems he is completely self-serving, the Lion would of course side with the Emperor pre-Istvaan since it looks like the Loyalists are going to hollow the planet out at first.

 

And the Lion is no dolt! The Lion is wise for hedging his bets, but it doesnt stop me from thinking he is a oathbreaker and a kinslayer in regards to his cavalier attitude towards his liege, or endear me to his character. It seems consistently in the books the Lion uses lies, deceit and other tools to get what he needs done with neither thought nor care to the collateral done if it is for his glory. I always felt like the Lion would be the epitome of the noble beast, but it seems he is characterized as a paranoid megalomaniac. Maybe I am just disappointed in how he is written. Either way, I hope more is revealed and not too much is revealed :lol: Good stuff!

 

can you please point out where he aids horus's side?

 

from his conversation in the epilogue he is giving what he thinks to be a loyal primarch the siege guns. the Lion is SO bad at reading people that he couldnt tell that his partner in the conversation was about to go traitor. SO other than a total poor judgement call, i cant see his hedging his bets. what the epilogue does is have his stacking the deck in his favor whedn the emperor declares a new warmaster, nothing more. or atleast thats what i read.

 

WLK

[chunky04]

 

Who's to say the Lion wasn't aware of Perturabo's loyalties though? The phrase referring to using the siege guns well certainly takes on an ironic turn that would fit in with the Lions character when read with that in mind.

 

Personally, I think they did a very good job with Fallen Angels, setting things up perfectly to unravel as we know they did and make sense, without making fully clear the Lion's motives.

 

The other thing I noticed though, is that there is an oblique reference to the Watchers in the Dark being members of the Cabal from Legion, and in that book there was mention that they'd tried to make arrangements with the 1st Legion. Given the proximity of the Watchers to the Lion, its not unreasonable to actually interpret the Lion's reluctance to act in another way again.

 

[Damael]

I don't know what I'd do if there were a day when no one sought to discredit the Lion and question his allegiances.

 

I try not to be drawn into these debates, but I dearly need a break from painting!

 

So, the Lion didn't realise his brother primarch was a traitor. Rogal Dorn ordered four treacherous primarchs to the Istvaan system without realising they were traitors. The Lion would have liked the title of Warmaster, but then again so would Guilliman. He would never have achieved that title in joining Horus's new order. Horus and the Lion did not get along - see Horus's comments in Horus Rising and False Gods. He would have a much better chance of fulfilling his ambition under the Emperor's rule, not that of Horus. Given the Lion's reaction to the news of Horus's betrayal in Fallen Angels, one could assume that Jonson sees Horus's betrayal simply as vindication of his opinion that Horus was a poor choice as Warmaster, and Horus's failure in his service to the Imperium was quite possibly expected by the Lion, though of course he could never predict the nature and extent of this failure.

 

The depiction of Lion el'Jonson in the Horus Heresy series has been somewhat disappointing. They've shown precious little of his noble qualities and little of his dealings with his brother primarchs and the Emperor, & I fear that Dark Angel players are going to have to continue to suffer the jibes and jeers of those aligned with other legions until more is revealed and the Lion aligns firmly himself with the Emperor (which he most definitely will do!) in coming novels. Having fought both the agents of the Ruinous powers in the Calibanite forests and on Sarosh, and the the legion of the Warmaster that he (among others) obviously resents so much, I doubt he would consider siding with Horus at all.

 

"Such is the fate of all traitors." - This is what Jonson says after the destruction of Horus's forces at Diamat. That's all the evidence I need! ...would that it were the same for all of us...

 

Back to painting I guess! :unsure:

[Valinov]

This is definately an interesting topic I would say after peering through the two pages written. I agree with what Damael said above me, just because the Lion provided Perturabo with the siege guns siezed on Diamat does not mean that he supported Horus. Although if he still held true to the Emperor this would mean that he failed to see that Perturabo would ultimately betray the Emperor, the Lion has troubles reading people, this much can be said, but failing to see whether or not Perturabo was a traitor does not necessarily condemn his sense of insight. As stated above Rogal Dorn ordered four legions who would later betray the Emperor to Isstvan V although his insight is not questioned. The thought that your brother would betray all you believe and openly renounce his faith in such a mighty being as the Emperor was beyond imagination, such a thing could simply not happen. I believe that thoughts of honour and loyalty to eachother clouded the insight of the Primarchs, these were chaotic times indeed. Also, the Lion refering to his brother primarch as cousin might be another piece of proof to his lacking ability to connect, just a sidenote.

 

"So I can count upon you as the time comes? I feel the Emperor will need to chose a new Warmaster very quickly if the Great Crusade is to continue". Maybe not the best proof, but for me it seems like he is declaring who he supports. (it would be better if he said the Emperor's name to make it clear, but with his name never being revealed, that is kinda hard)

 

There is no doubt that the Lion is hoping to ascend to a higher status within the Imperium. The fact that Horus was declared Warmaster and 'favourite of the Emperor' is earlier stated as a fluke and I believe it. If the Lion had been found first it would probably had been him (both because the senioroty of his membership but also his strategic mind) who was declared Warmaster. Perhaps he would use the situtation to climb higher although I doubt that the Lion would forfeit his oath to the Emperor and side with traitors simply to attain the rank of Warmaster.

 

It seems consistently in the books the Lion uses lies, deceit and other tools to get what he needs done with neither thought nor care to the collateral done if it is for his glory.

 

The Lion employs the tools necessary, as does the Emperor. The fact that the Lion sent a compelling ammount of Calibanites back to Caliban has been speculated over and in Fallen Angels the theory that the Lion has always known about the taint and has deduced that eventually the Imperium will destroy Caliban and therefore sent Luther & the Gang back to meet their doom is introduced. All these things may just be flukes, there may be some other hidden reason to why he sent them back although at the time the theory stated above I would believe is currently the most accurate. To get back to the point of the answer to Chaplain Chonke, The Lion uses lies and deceit yes, but so do other primarchs. Alpharius and Omegon steadily employed stealth, deciety and treachery to forward their goals. Even the Emperor employs lies and deceit, The Grand Lie of Mars for instance (Mechanicum).

 

I may have eluded the point of this post however and I will summarize it.

 

I believe that the Lion would not side with any of the traitorous legions nor forces from the warp simply to forward rank and personal glory. He did what he calculated was best at the moment to keep the situtation in check. There is quite compelling proof that Lion El'jonson was always true to the Emperor. With this post I hope that I have provided you with further arguments to prove that the Lion held on to his faith in the Emperor and also that not all Primarchs are spotless simply because previous books do not mention them employing any unclean methods.

[Arioch]

Okay this is my first post at this forum so sorry if it sounds a bit weird.

 

I find it incredible that any can still be doubting the loyalty of the Lion after having read Fallen Angels. During the whole book Lion El Johnson constantly shows his deep hatred when thinking or talking (or figthing!) the traitors. It may be true that the Lion does not often show emotions but when it comes to wrath, anger and hate the Lion is finding it difficult to control himself. And it seems that he especially hates traitors, because as a knigt, loyalty is all that matters- it is one of the reasons for the destruction of Caliban. Loyalty and honour was the watchword of the dark angels before the fall. As for that last chapter and the Lions ambitions...what loser primarch would not have ambitions? The main difference with the Lions ambitions vs. Horus`ambitions is that he does not wish to take power at the cost of others (like starting a civil war). He accepted the Emperors decision although he did not agree with it. He is the older brother after all. But he is not risking the safty of the emperium just so that he can rise to power, he is simply constantly trying to obtain advantages as would any strategic genius.

And no the Lion is not good judging other peoples charekter, but none of the dark angels was suspecting the trap laid bye the mechanicus and no one suspected Perturabo being a traitor until Istvaan. So he is fairly exscused, although it can not be doubted that he is a poor judger of charecter due to his lonely years in isolation on Caliban.

....

Well this was some of my thougths, sorry if it got a bit long, but their is a lot to be discussed here. Hopefully I havnt made to many spelling mistakes :P

[Piousservant]

Heh. My first post also… Hello all.

 

I have to say that, to me, Fallen Angels left a lot more questions than answers, but the one thing it did actually answer was that of the Lions loyalty. He is quite clearly loyal to the Emperor, the way he speaks about Horus, the Tech Priest and the epilogue with Perturabo all show that he remains loyal.

 

Regarding the meeting with Perturabo, Dorn and the other loyalist Primarchs were unaware of the treachery of the Legions sent in the second wave to Istvaan. Also I imagine that the Lion had a better personal relationship with Perturabo than some of the other Primarchs, as from what we know of both they were on a similar intellectual level. As one of the few people that the Lion could really connect with I suppose he probably trusted Perturabo more than most. Unfortunately as it would turn out…

 

I have to say that I dislike the portrayal of the Lion in Fallen Angels. He is supposed to be a Primarch, practically a demi-god, but he comes across (for the most part) as quite underwhelming. I get, and agree, with him have issues with “reading people” but rather than be a facet of his character it seems to be the sum total of his character. Particularly as his (apparent) strategic brilliance was not very telling. I find that disappointing, particularly when contrasted with how the rest of the Primarchs have been depicted throughout the series.

[eyeslikethunder]

Yeah i was used to like the lion but these books have put me off him more than any of other Primarchs.

 

He is nothing like the character i imagined from the previous stories in codexes and WD's

[ForTheLion]

ehem...in the latest HH book. the lion fights the Sons of Horus...kinda obvious hes Imperial!

[Jamafore]

ehem...in the latest HH book. the lion fights the Sons of Horus...kinda obvious hes Imperial!

 

 

 

The problem with obviousness (Is that even a word? ;) ) is that you'd be surprised how many times it turns out not to be true.

 

Just because it's seems to scream an answer doesn't mean you can't dig a little deeper. Try it sometime, at the very least it will make you paranoid. :(

 

Seriously, the end of Fallen Angels just confused the hell out of me, because it was so different then I expected after the others.

[Retributis]

I get the feeling that The Lion is brilliant from a military point of view, his handling of Diamat partially shows that, but becuase he grew up surrounded by the nightmareish beasts on Caliban he is still not used to being around people. It's said often that the plan to unite Caliban was the Lion's but the man who pursuaded the other knights and had the charisma to bring it about was Luther, which leads me to think that the Lion simply doesn't know how to react to those he doesn't know well without Luther around for guidance. In essence he's almost like a gifted child prodigy, give him a battle and he'll be fine, but throw him into a party and he'll still need adult guidance.

[Marshal Varas Mortez]

I particularly liked the comment about him being a knight and so having a strong sense of loyalty.... why did luthor get sent home again? Dark angels out there want to field a solid reason? Why did the librarian cousin of those two who are central through descent of angels, get sent home? Please I have read them and I just can't seem to figure that bit out. Other knights from his brotherhood, in fact the two he had the strongest connection with.... and you say he has a major problem with breaking brotherhoods?

 

intriguing no?

[KingDeath]

Luthor got sent home because he betrayed the Lion, just for a moment but he still betrayed him

and El'Jonson seems to suspect it. The librarian and the other marines are imo sent back because

they are relativly close to Luther.

[Brother-Captain Zacharias]

Brothers (and Sisters?) - my own analysis as follows.

 

1 - the Lion is a brilliant military strategist, but not a great reader of people - he is emotionally naive. It has been noted in many discussions that whilst the Lion was the designer, Luther was the salesman. He knew what it would take to bring people into the fold, and indeed inspire those already committed to a campaign. To this end, I would suggest this is why El'Jonson didn't suspect Perturabo at the end of Fallen Angels. Think of the Merovingian in The Matrix - both "knew" what the current situation was, both "knew" how those involved did/would/should react, therefore both "know" what will be the outcome. It would never have occurred to the Lion that Perturabo might be playing him. Further, this I predict will be the breaking point for the Lion-Luther relationship - Luther et al were banished for what was a perceived fatal betrayal, primarily because the Lion would never have seen it coming from those he trusted so much.

 

2 - the Lion is driven by ambition. When Caliban was the extent of the world, then that's all he cared about - he was focussed and driven in achieving what he thought was necessary for hos environment. As soon as the Emperor came along, all of a sudden Caliban became just asmall part of the bigger picture, his ambitions now invloved a much bigger playground. In short, i'd suggest the Lion no longer cares about Caliban. It's a back water planet of little strategic value, and useful only as a training and recruitment ground. I doubt he was just waiting for an excuse to destroy the place, but when events lead him to conclude that Luther and the planet have turned to Chaos, he has little sympathy left.

 

3 - the Lion is waiting to see who wins. He will never side with Horus, it goes against all he'd tried to achieve on Caliban before reuniting with the Emperor. But whomever gains the upper hand before he can get involved will dictate how he acts. He is ambitious, wants to impress the Emperor, but more importantly wants to lead the Imperium. he has his eyes on the end goal, even if that results in tunnel vision.

 

4 - i think it's clear that Luther, Astelan et al are for the independence of Caliban, NOT for siding with Horus. They no longer give a damn about the Imperium and it's grand vision, they just want there world back. That said, Caliban is now being touted as a vessel/prison for some daemonic entity, so the taint of Chaos is inevitable. In line with the history as per Angels of Darkness and the developments of Descent of/Fallen Angels, i'd say the final showdown is a case of crossed wires:

a/ the Lion knows Caliban is tainted, has suspected Luther for some time, and by that time is mightily pissed at his naiveity over the Perturabo incident - "fool me once..." etc.

b/ Luther knows the Lion put Cypher on the case of Calibans taint, is bitter anyway at being exiled for 50+ years, and then probably puts 2+2=5 over knowing about the Diamat effort for the siege engines then ending up in the hands of the Traitors and being crucial in the seige of Terra

 

Ultimately the story of the Dark Angels is a real tragedy, and whilst i believe none of the characters are destined to become hard core villains, neither will any of them emerge with any real honour.

 

You've gotta love our story, it's immense!

[Arioch]

Zacharias

"3 - the Lion is waiting to see who wins. He will never side with Horus, it goes against all he'd tried to achieve on Caliban before reuniting with the Emperor. But whomever gains the upper hand before he can get involved will dictate how he acts. He is ambitious, wants to impress the Emperor, but more importantly wants to lead the Imperium. he has his eyes on the end goal, even if that results in tunnel vision."

 

Im not sure I understand this statement. If the Lion would never side with Horus, why would he be waiting to see who wins? If Horus wins and The Lion refuses to join him, he will be wiped out. And even though the Lion is ambitious I dont believe that he puts his ambitions above his loyalty to the Emperor. That is why The Lion is depressed after reaching Terra and he blames himself (or perhabs mostly Russ) for not being able to save the Emperor. And I think even strategicly Caliban is important for the Lion, because without Caliban he has no warriors and therefor without Caliban he is nothing. The reason why he fails paying attention to Caliban is still a mystery to me. But perhabs history can aid us here....

Richard the Lionheart was never a popular king. His subjects did not like him, because he was spending all his time and money on the Third Crusade. He was rarely at home, always in the field. When he returned to England he found that his brother had seized his throne. Though John was forgiven, Richard was later killed by an arrow figthing a rebellion in France. Perhabs some of this served as inspiration for the Lion? Richard was known as a masterstrategist, was spending all his time on "The Great Crusade" and when he returned home his brother had betrayed him and he was later killed by rebels. Only a suggestion of course just thougth I had to show this quite odd similarity between the to leaders.

 

I just think that the Lion in some way cares about Caliban, but his duty has lead him elsewhere. I feel that what is going to happend on Caliban is a terrible mistake based on misunderstandings (possibly the Lions bad judgement will haunt him again) and as such will be very tragic. But apart from that I think you may be rigth in many things Zacharias and I can be wrong. Perhabs I´m no good at judging people either...