Flying base stupidity

[Master Of Malfeasance X]

I played against a Tau army the other day where I rushed a squad of thousand sons into his right flank and blew away a bunch of pathfinders in cover. No problems there.

 

Next turn, he sees that my noise marines are about to light up (tune up?) his other pathfinders, so he parks his devilfish between the pathfinders and my NMs. I shoot the pathfinders on my turn anyway.

 

me: I'm shooting your pathfinders.

Tau: Uhh, you can't see them.

me: Yes I can, your skimmers is flying.

Tau: No, it's landed.

me: (I used to play Tau) no, it's flying. It can only land if it didn't move.

Tau: (looks through codex) that's crap. You can't shoot them. It's flying on the ground.

me: It has to be on a base.

Tau: Where does it say that?

me: (holds up rulebook) here.

 

Am I insane, or does it say right there under the rules for skimmers that they require bases?

 

This player also hangs his devilfish from the tops of buildings and uses them as shields for deploying pathfinders and firewarriors and I have seen Eldar players do this too. On that note, can you declare a skimmer is skimming upside down or vertically, or does it have to be in a position where its base can sit flat on the table?

 

Finally, can you change the height of a skimmer by replacing its base mid-game? Can you use custom flying bases that are ultra-high or ultra-low? For that matter, can you adjust a defiler so it's taller or shorter depending on what you want it to do? I see players pull this stuff mid-game all the time and it's really obnoxious.

[rat of vengence]

Well, p71 says that skimmers have a transparent flying base. No might, or can, but have. That doesn't leave a lot of room for wiggling out of a flying base. I play a guy who is tired of broken bases, so we just play it as if it was an inch or so higher, he knows he should have a base bu isn't trying to be a git like your opponent.

 

Hanging things from the tops of buildings? Well, next time he does that lay your marines on their sides so he can't see them over terrain, and ask him where it says you can't! Cheesy sod... <_<

 

Changing the base mid game could lead to no end game. I wouldn't put up with it.

 

Dreadsock him next time he tries it. :cry:

 

RoV

[gil galed]

imo it should be the height its modelled as, if you model it low to block los then its gonna also block your los, if you model it high vice a versa

[Seahawk]

You have it right. He must be on a flying base period, people cannot (or should not) change their models mid game. A simple read through the rulebook and codex will make them stop or be declared cheaters:

 

You're right on the Tau vehicles. If they claim to be landed, they cannot move that turn. I had a player insisting the same stuff until I showed him the rulebook and forced him to use his dang flying bases. Then, as per the BRB:

 

"Note that it is not permitted to remove the flying stand other than in the two cases above (immoblized/wrecked)"

 

"Accordingly, only infantry, jump infantry, jetbikes, monstrous creatures, and walkers may move on the upper levels of a ruin." So anybody that has been putting their Tau and Eldar skimmers on upper floors of buildings are flat out cheating.

 

You play with a bunch of mean gits, apparently.

[DevianID]

I think the flying bases, while required per RAW, shouldnt be such a huge deal in most games. The more important thing is that you dont selectively use flying bases to pop up above cover to shoot and then remove it during the enemies shooting phase. But, if you dont use flying bases because you hate how they constantly break, well I dont think anyone will fault you--just be up front about it.

 

Also, to be fair to the opponent who did not have the flying base, if you had a problem with him not having a base, why wasnt it brought up BEFORE the game instead of during the game after part of the game had been played with no flying base?

 

Now, if he flys the skimmer vertically or upside down, ya hes being a bad boy, but if he plays the model with no base for part of the game with no issues, but when you want to shoot you make it an issue, then I would say thats more your fault for suprising him with the rule he (supposedly) didnt know about until it was advantageous to your shooting.

 

All in all, you know the situation and the player more than me... if he has chronicly abused rules then he deserved it. But if it was an honest mistake of not knowing the base is required for the skimmer, then you perhaps could have told him about it the moment he deployed the transport instead of after he moved the vehicle in front of a squad under the assumption that the squad would have LOS blocked.

[HiveFleetEzekial]

While you are correct on the basing/stand issue, he did have you to rights on targeting his other unit (he, and apparently everyone else you play against, just went abut doing it in a very bizare manner. ontop of the other odd things they seem to do). In 5E now, ust because a skimmer is a skimmer and has a flying stand does not neccessarily mean you can see right through the space it occupies. They will block LOS for the area they take up. Because of this rule, most people will end up using the shorter of the two flying stand options to limit how much you could possibly see under them.

[Grey Mage]

Wait, I could swear I saw something about them being able to move like a normal vehicle for a turn, including dangerous terraint etc if desired....

 

Yep! There it is! Sensor Spines. Page 37.

 

Except that doesnt say that exactly... but it kinda does.

 

:S

[HiveFleetEzekial]

P31 actually. (37 is the kroot entry in the army list ;) )

 

Other than the protection that upgrade grants for dangerous terrain tests, it's redundant. All vehicles can 'claim to be obscured' at 50% or more cover, regardless of type. And TLoS works, wherever the thing is setting, so it'll almost always be blocking LOS anyways.