Urgent help about TECHMARINES

[Emre]

Hi there brothers :lol:

 

My question is simple: Can techmarines attempt to repair vehicles that they are embarked on? (ofcourse crew is not stunned!)

 

For example assume that i have a standard Land Raider, inside i have 1 Techmarine and 4 Servitors, Land Raider gets shot and looses a twin-linked lascannon. Can i attempt to repair it without disembarking (from inside)?

 

If yes than what do you think of having a Land Raider with Chronus on top, tecmarine and servitors inside?

 

Thoughts, ideas pls...

[Bran Scalphunter]

Nope, he has to be outside the vehicle when he attempts to repair it. I'm too lazy to get the C and quote it for you. I know it's in there, so would someone be kind enough (and active enough) to get their C:SM and quote the actual thing.

 

And Chronus doesn't give a bonus- it has to be Servitors with SA to add +1.

[crossatron]

Chronus does give a vehicle bonus, as far as he gives the ability to ignore crew stunned and shaken results.

 

In the Codex it states that A Techmarine needs to be in base contact with the damaged vehicle, and that in the shooting phase he can attempt a repair. This suggests to me that during the movement phase he can disembark, and then attempt a repair in the following shooting phase. I do not belive that this indicates he can repair from inside the vehicle. Besides, disembarks in movement phase, fixes the thing in shooting phase, re-embarks in the next movement phase, vehicle carries on moving in the same movment phase.. So not much of a problem regarding anybodys movement. :-)

[Skirax]

They are allowed to fix any weapon destroyed or immobilised result on a 5+, the Servo-Harness and any servitors can help by adding 1 to any rolls regardless of wethr or not he is embarked.

[Bran Scalphunter]

@ Cross- I meant his servo arm doesn't add +1 to the Techmarine's repair attempt. Shoulda been more specific. :)

[crossatron]

No, I think it's my mistake actually! I think I jumped the gun a bit and went straight in without fully reading what you had written! You were making perfect sense.-my apologies... :)

[Emre]

Thanks for your responses. I have the Codex and read the exact definition too. However i thought that embarking means that the miniature is already in base contact when he is inside. Nevertheless as you have said it is not a problem for anyones movement.

 

I think my question was misunderstood. I tried to ask if it is a points waste or not to go for a standard Land Raider with 4 servitors and a Techmarine inside which will now repair on 2up and an additional Chronus on top just for its own benefits. Shouldn't it be a crazy Land Raider... :P

[Ryjak]

As 40k uses a permissive rule set, and the rules NEVER state a model embarked in a vehicle counts as being in Base-to-Base contact with it... a Tech-marine embarked inside a landraider cannot repair it.

[yergerjo]

"Blessing of the Omnissiah: If the Techmarine is in base contact with a damaged vehicle during the Shooting phase...."

 

Codex: SM pg. 71

 

I just noticed something else, in the BRB under Independent Characters, pg 47 it says that ALL ICs have Move Through Cover and Skilled Rider...weird.

 

"They can disembark separately by either the unit or the characters disembarking while the other remain onboard" BRB pg. 67

 

So if you have a Tact Squad embarked with a Techmarine attached inside a LR that has been hit with an immobilized result, the Techmarine can disembark and be in base contact with the LR and try to repair it.

 

By RAW it seems they must get out. As RAI it seems that if the Techmarine is inside then they are in base contact and can use their repair ability like certain other character abilities (Farseers, Librarians).

 

A further question that comes to mind is if a Techmarine just fixed or attempted to fix a vehicle, can he then make an assault in the next phase?

[jeffersonian000]

In the Apocalypse rules set, each of the Imperial Titans have a specific rule allowing their on board tech-adepts to make repair rolls while on board, as most Titans do not have a transport capacity.

 

If your opponent agrees, you could easily just incorporate the same set-up for an embark Techmarines.

 

SJ

[Grey Mage]

Well if a model isinside a vehicle then so is his base, and since the base of the vehicle is its hull, it must there-to-fore be in base to base, as their bases overlap. Yes?

[Frosty the Pyro]

No thats not how it works Grey mage and you know it. It would be pretty darn hard fixing the external turret on the roof of a landraider from the inside.

[Agrab]

This is pretty easy...

 

A model must NOT MOVE and BE IN BASE to repair a vehicle

that means that they must start the turn in base we the vehicle

Disembarking is movement, so that doesn't work

Being embarked means that you are off the table, so not in base

 

I.E. NO

[Kephri]

This is pretty easy...

 

A model must NOT MOVE and BE IN BASE to repair a vehicle

that means that they must start the turn in base we the vehicle

Disembarking is movement, so that doesn't work

Being embarked means that you are off the table, so not in base

 

I.E. NO

 

I don't have my codex with me, but I think this is the 4e rule. I thought in 5e, you can do it in the shooting phase as long as you are in b2b contact. There is no mention of having been stationary during the movement phase.

[werewolf_nr]

This is pretty easy...

 

A model must NOT MOVE and BE IN BASE to repair a vehicle

that means that they must start the turn in base we the vehicle

Disembarking is movement, so that doesn't work

Being embarked means that you are off the table, so not in base

 

I.E. NO

 

I don't have my codex with me, but I think this is the 4e rule. I thought in 5e, you can do it in the shooting phase as long as you are in b2b contact. There is no mention of having been stationary during the movement phase.

 

Kephri is right, you can move to B2B, you don't have to be stationary.

[Rythlan]

Even if it did say you had to be stationary. As long as the vehicle hasn't moved the turn you dissembark, you don't count as moving. Do you? I know you can dissembark and assault the same turn as long as a vehicle hasn't moved.

 

Someone with a BRB please clarify for me.

[Agrab]

You guys are correct about the movement change, i should have read it more carefully. Unless he is digging a hole in the ground or running away, he can fix the vehicle

 

that said, he must still be outside of it, as otherwise he is not considered in play, thus not in base. He can leave, end in contact, and then repair

[Agrab]

Even if it did say you had to be stationary. As long as the vehicle hasn't moved the turn you dissembark, you don't count as moving. Do you? I know you can dissembark and assault the same turn as long as a vehicle hasn't moved.

 

Someone with a BRB please clarify for me.

 

though they can move if the vehicle has not moved yet (including rotating), they count as moving (page 67, point 1 and 2)

[Grey Mage]

No thats not how it works Grey mage and you know it. It would be pretty darn hard fixing the external turret on the roof of a landraider from the inside.

Unless it was a jammed ammo feed, problems with the servos, or damage to the fire control systems electrics.... or any of the other myrida things that are actually a million times easier to fix inside than out, if you can even fix them from outside that is. So *spreads hands* what I was talking about was actualy game, not fluff. If the model is considered to be "in" the tank, then why on earth isnt its base right there with it?

 

And dont even try to tell me that a model in a transport isnt in play. If that was the case librarians couldnt gate of infinity out of rhinos and the models wouldnt be hit when the vehicle exploded. Both of wich IIRC have been confirmed in this forum a few times.

[Praeger]

If the model is considered to be "in" the tank, then why on earth isnt its base right there with it?

 

Becouse he is NOT considered "in" the tank. He is considered "off the board".

 

And dont even try to tell me that a model in a transport isnt in play. If that was the case librarians couldnt gate of infinity out of rhinos and the models wouldnt be hit when the vehicle exploded. Both of wich IIRC have been confirmed in this forum a few times.

 

Very different. Powers and shooting weapons CAN be fired from a vehicle with an open hatch.

 

Models can be hurt becouse the rules SPECIFICLY state so.

 

They also state a model is OFF THE BOARD when in a transport.

[Grey Mage]

No, it doesnt say they count as being off the table, it says the models are removed from the table. It then continues to state that you measure from the vehicles hull for things like shooting etc. It never once states the model "counts as" or is "considered" anything. The only thing they "Count as" is transported. The rules show that the models are considered to be in the vehicle, being transported. Where would you put the models, on top of the tank? Inside it? Come-on.

[Agrab]

No, it doesnt say they count as being off the table, it says the models are removed from the table. It then continues to state that you measure from the vehicles hull for things like shooting etc. It never once states the model "counts as" or is "considered" anything. The only thing they "Count as" is transported. The rules show that the models are considered to be in the vehicle, being transported. Where would you put the models, on top of the tank? Inside it? Come-on.

 

 

Mage, i agree that logically it should work, however consider the following

When placed in a vehicle, you are to remove it from the board

that means that it CAN NJOT be in base to base

ALSO

If they were in the vehicles then you violate the rules about overlapping bases. You need to have them removed and IN BASE-TO-BASE, not BASE-ON-BASE before they can repair

i hate it too, i use them

[Rythlan]

Agrab, thanks for the clarification.

 

As for the base-to-base idea, I take it at its most literal form. If a model is to be considered in base to base contact, the bases have to be physically touching.

 

Example: my troops get into a rhino. I pick them up and place them on a chair. Are their bases touching the rhino? No, they are touching a chair and the rhino is in the middle of the table.

[Agrab]

Agrab, thanks for the clarification.

 

As for the base-to-base idea, I take it at its most literal form. If a model is to be considered in base to base contact, the bases have to be physically touching.

 

Example: my troops get into a rhino. I pick them up and place them on a chair. Are their bases touching the rhino? No, they are touching a chair and the rhino is in the middle of the table.

 

actually, wehre you place them is up to you (the BRB even mentions putting them ontop of the rhino), so you could 'take them off' yet still be base-in-base by looks. That is why you are only considered in it for shooting, not for anything else (makes it clear)

[Frosty the Pyro]

Yeah agrab, but that is purely representational, and as such has no mechanical bearings (if it did then the model you put on top could be shot at, as the transport rules never say embarked models cannot be shot at, and you can shoot at any unit you can see). An embarked techmarine cannot repair without disembarking. BtB is not defined in a way that would let you. You can measure fireing lines, psychic powers, and aura style rules from the hull of a transport. If you could declare BtB from the hull then embarked units could take close combat attacks against enemies that are assulting the vehicle, and would lock those enemies in CC (as they are in BtB with an enemy unit). None of this happens therfore you cannot measure Base to Base from inside a transpoer