The Auxiliary Grenade Launcher.

[ShinyRhino]

So, I really like the idea of the auxiliary grenade launchers. It reminds me of my time in the US Marines, when I carried an M203 as a fire team leader. There's something about an underslug 40mm grenade launcher that makes one happy.

Unfortunately, it looks like the only units in the Codex that can take these are Chapter Masters, Captains, and Honour Guard. Not the best selection. I'd love for Sternguard to be able to purchase them.

That being said, has anyone given them to their Marines? I'm really thinking of doing an Honour Guard alongside a Master, all armed with aux launchers. The problem is, Honour Guard are a melee-centric unit. You're wasting their points if they're not charging into someone, power weapons humming. You can fire the aux launchers before a charge (they're Assault weapons, yay!), but it feeels dangerous. Even though the small blast templates are only S3, AP6, they can still rack up kills against packed units or horde troops. Then stack bolt pistol shots on top of that, and you've mounted some heavy pre-charge casualties. This allows the opponent to remove a lot of models from your charge range, possibly (likely?) putting you outside charge range for the Assault phase.

Then there's the risk of scattering back onto yourself, since you have to be within 6" to charge afterward. Not a large risk, as the shots are only S3 against your marine toughness and armour save. But I hate tempting the Dice Gods.

The other option is using the S6 krak shot instead. No scatter, but fewer wounds. These feel more like shots of opportunity against walkers, light armour, or higher toughness units like Nobz or Bikers. The AP4 (I think) doesn't negate much though. Might be useful against the new Ogryns for some pre-charge softening.

 

So, has anyone bothered with auxiliary grenade launchers on a regular basis yet? I like the weapon, and the modelling opportunities, but question the value of them, considering their upgrade cost.

[War Angel]

ive yet to use one, but it seems like its a miniture missle launcher, for when you cant slow down.

 

i can see alot of reasons as to why you should never use one (if youre within 12 you probably want to start charging, and blowing chunks out of that squad, you might give them the charge, and if youre safe of that happening, then youre close enough to hit youreself)

 

"Not a large risk, as the shots are only S3 against your marine toughness and armour save"

 

i know what you mean, i was trying out tac squads against nids, and some of them got close to two of my combat squads with the ML's. fired one from one squad, and it turned around and killed one from the other squad (they where both 6 inch from the damn thing)

 

 

EDIT

frogot to say what i wanted to.... anyway, i can imagin that the best time for one of thoes, is drop pods. youre GOING to be within 12 inch's of something if thats youre goal, and you cant charge them any how, so im going to try it out.

 

i'm going to run it in a squad with 2 plasmaguners....and im going to have the CO using combi-plasma/ newb tube (is it possible i have to many things smashed into my boltgun??lol

 

if you cant tell, this is going to be killing my opponents command squad/elites or whatnot... so if it gets a kill, it gets its points back

[greatcrusade08]

I use grenade launchers on scout bikers, infact this is one of the two reasons i run them..... the other being first turn charges!

 

GC08

[ShinyRhino]

I use grenade launchers on scout bikers, infact this is one of the two reasons i run them..... the other being first turn charges!

 

GC08

 

Oh, I can see their role in a Scout Biker Squad. But Honour Guard are a different beast altogether. I did like the idea of using them when I pile out of my Rhino or Drop Pod, though. You can't charge that turn, so it's a nice extra volley of goodness along with the rapid fire bolters.

I think I'll try modelling up a few, just for giggles.

[Captain Malachi]

If you're worried about killing too many pre-charge, just take a few less. Don't give your whole honour guard 'nade launchers, jusy give them to one or two of them, maybe three. You still get kills but don't over-do it.

[Giga]

The problem with auxiliary grenade launcher is that it's not effective enough for the price.

 

The honor guard are expensive as it is. Give them grenade launchers and a single guard becomes 50 points. At that point its best to just take terminators of some kind.

[ShinyRhino]

The problem with auxiliary grenade launcher is that it's not effective enough for the price.

 

The honor guard are expensive as it is. Give them grenade launchers and a single guard becomes 50 points. At that point its best to just take terminators of some kind.

 

A valid point. The only reason I can see for taking an Honour Guard instead of Terminators is for the freeing of Elites slots, the ability to Sweeping Advance, and the ability to be embarked in a non-Raider transport alongside the Chapter Master. The Honour Guard also have some specialized upgrades like banners, a Champion, etc, that non-Deathwing Termis cannot get.

[Giga]

A valid point. The only reason I can see for taking an Honour Guard instead of Terminators is for the freeing of Elites slots, the ability to Sweeping Advance, and the ability to be embarked in a non-Raider transport alongside the Chapter Master. The Honour Guard also have some specialized upgrades like banners, a Champion, etc, that non-Deathwing Termis cannot get.

Sadly, most of those advantages aren't exactly advantageous when you think about them.

 

Having your uber-expensive close-combat specialist unit embarked in 11 11 10 vehicle isn't such a great idea to be honest. Every opponent will focus their longrange fire on it, and chances are they'll immobilize it or even blow it up. This is what makes the raider so good; most of the time it will be able to deliver your assault specialists where you want them.

 

Also, rhino/razorback isn't an assault vehicle. This poses a double problem, because the vanguard have no invulnerable save. Therefore, letting the opponent shoot at them is very likely to be disastrous, simply because your small elite squad would be taken down by the sheer volume of fire, not to mention owned by ap 2 or better weaponry (them plasma cannons come to mind).

 

On the other hand, the ability to sweeping advance isn't that good when you consider the fact that terminators really don't need it in the first place. I mean, my terminators usually slaughter whatever they assault in a single assault phase. No need for sweeping advance.

 

IMHO, the honor guard are awesome when driven in a land raider and fighting against GEQ and similar. Their initiative and large number of attacks is really good when combined with proper transportation. However, I prefer th/ss terminators because they're useful in every situation (also I like terminators in general ;)), and because on the overall they get more stuff for fewer points.

[ShinyRhino]

More valid points, Giga.

 

I'm not such a huge fan of Terminators. I've only ever fielded the 5-man squad from AoBR, as that's all I own at the moment. I also don't own a Raider. Maybe someday, but I've got too much else to build and paint right now :(

 

I think the hardest part right now for me is deciding between the "cool factor" and the "playability factor." If your Marines don't look like rock-hard salt dogs, why play them? ;)

[Giga]

Well, I'm sorta lucky on the "cool vs effective in-game" factor, because I happen to adore the models/fluff of both assault terminators and land raiders. Having them on the table looks so... Imposing! ;)

 

But ye, terminators without a land raider are a waste of points as far as I'm concerned. Once you decide to buy something new, you should defo get a LR first, and then try it out with assault marines/honor guard inside. I'm positive you'll get a vast improvement in overall honor guard efficiency. :P

[Ming]

I've thought about adding three honor guard for my Captain (Ardias=Kantor) builds. Overall, if I was going to spend points on grenade launchers on the honor guard, might be better spent elsewhere, like digital weapons or relic blades instead. I see the launchers as an upgrade / sink for extra points, rather than as an important addition.

 

I want to experiment with Vanguard soon. Am going to use some old death company marines that have now-uncodexy power weapons. No jump packs, instead use a librarian with GOI and Force Dome. The jump pack point savings are used to upgrade the libby to Epistolary. Now these power weapon fiends can jump around 24 inches with a 5+ invulnerable save, and maybe lots of power - a mix of weaps and fists...Will work to keep the libby in the back though. Hate to lose him to a bad dice roll.

[chapter master 454]

For such a usful thing in a tactical squad or assault squad they choose not to put it where it makes sence and put it on those who don't need it (if I want strength 6 I've got relic blades that hit rear armour thank you very much). Digital weapons on he champions pointless since he should be punching it out with ICs anyway and he gets re-rolls to wound and hit on ICs (making him a nasty assassin for warbosses and such). Another thing GW forgot is that the orbital bombarbment is useless to boot. I wager that the new GW fetish is a unit that gives ether a single shot ordance blast (like chapter masters) or countiously doing so (master of the ordanance) but will be completely useless until GW let HQs take heavy weapons like heavy bolters and plasma cannons (no fluffy but since when did GW give two pennies about that). Just take shrike with vanguard with jump packs and take the turn 1 charge with it, I think I see where vanguards points start coming from (they are just shrikes wing in disguise).

[kirasu]

The main problem to me with Aux grenade launchers (atleast on characters) is that SM captains are so expensive that you soon are paying MORE for a captain than lysander, vulkan or shrike.. At that point you're better off just using one of those power houses

[Captain Idaho]

How can orbital bombardment be useless?! :sweat:

 

It's an barrage weapon and can be used 1st turn. Barrage weapons hit side armour, which combined with S10, 2 dice pick the highest for ordnance and AP1 and the size of things like Landraiders, Monoliths, Battle Wagons and Leman Russ battle tanks means you are likely to do some damage. (note I am aware that the 1st 2 of those vehicles are AV14 all round)

 

And if you are playing a clumped army you are likely to scatter onto something else. Not bad for a shot that doesn't require LOS...

 

Honour Guard can work inside a Rhino provided you have multiple armoured units and have a reasonable board of terrain. My Rhinos are usually very rarely a priority target in the 1st couple of turns of even GTs. People consider an assault unit in a Rhino to not be a threat because they cannot assault from the turn they disembark from a moving transport, but I have gotten an Honour Guard unit into 14" range inside a Rhino plenty of times. Opponents consider they are safe until you disembark 2", move 6" and then assault a further 6".

 

But don't get me wrong; Landraider's rule as they give you a 20" attack range. That is a turn 2 assault guranteed (almost).

 

As to the original post; I'm not convinced the points spent on Aux. Grenade launchers are worthwhile in Honour Guard squads, who should most certainly be in assaults rather than shooting. Having said that, if you used HG in a Rhino and accompanied 8 Sternguard and a Tactical squad in a Rhino each, you could unleash some good firepower on opponents and have 2 separate units they would want to counter attack.

 

Or better than that, try taking the above squads in Drop pods, drop the Sternguard and Tacticals 1st turn and the HG after in support. You can do some serious damage with your shooting and the HG won't be ganged up on when they decide to show up because killing Sternguard and Taticals are not so easy to kill without causing some damage themselves.

 

On a Captain with Hellfire rounds and a bike, then an aux. grenade launcher could be quite good. Potentially that is 3 shots within 12" hitting on 2+ and wounding on a 2+.

 

In summary, consider the Aux. Grenade launcher to be situational to the build and strategy of your army (i.e. it won't fit into every army out there). Don't over do their use but consider them as an added bonus.