Guardsmen Marbo

[weakest]

I got a question that was sparked by another thread.

 

Guardsmen Marbo in the new codex is armed with a ranged weapon with the pistol rule and a blade that grants poisoned attacks. As far as I remember, no where in the description for this weapon does it have "This counts as a close combat weapon". I haven't read the entry in days so i could be wrong but i believe it is not in there.

 

So since he is only armed with a Ranged weapon with the Pistol special rule and the knife does not have a CCW Classification he should not get +1A in close combat right?

[Legatus]

The Envenomed Blade is not declared as a Close Combat weapon, true. The description matches very much the "Poisoned Weapon" Special Close Combat weapon description from the BBB though, both in fluff and in rules, so I personally would not be able to bring myself to argue that this piece of wargear that refers back to the "poisoned weapon" rules is not in fact such a weapon. But I guess there are such people. In such a cases perhaps the player could agree to only use Marbo's 4 profile attacks.

[gil galed]

RAW you could probably pull it off that he doesn't get +1 A, i mean he is stupidly strong enough anyway, but also he shouldn't be getting into combat, he's T3, just waste him

[Legatus]

I dunno, not having a powerweapon (and T3 of course) is a bit of a letdown.

[gil galed]

anyone who can deepstrike without scattering then throw a large blast str 8 ap 2 demo charge for Xpts is good by me, if it catches a single termi he's made his points back, against something like GK he could wipe out a good 250pts of regular troops first turn

 

o: reading the rules he definetly should not get +1 A, it clearly doesn't say its a close combat weapon, plus 4 poisoned attacked are good enough

[Legatus]

He's Y points in my book.

[Captain Malachi]

Question: Does a power weapon specifically say it's a CCW?

 

If the knife can only be used in close combat and is clearly a weapon, does that not force it to be a CCW?

[Gentlemanloser]

Power Weapons are not 'CCW', they have thier own entry in the Main Rule Book.

 

I've not seen the new Guard Dex yet, so can't comment on Rambo. :)

[Seahawk]

He has a poisoned weapon (a special weapon, as it's a [close combat, as it doesn't have a range value] weapon that gives him some sort of boost). It doesn't say anywhere its handedness. He also has a nccw (the pistol).

 

Power weapons, in the BRB, don't have a handedness, same with every single other special weapon. What matters is the combination they are used: If you mix a normal close combat weapon (the pistol) with a special weapon (the blade) and neither requires two hands, according to pg 42 he gets an extra attack.

 

He's still just a single guardsman that goes splat, unfortunately.

[Captain Malachi]

Thanks Seahawk, that was basically what I was getting at.

[Ming]

But this raises an even bigger question.

 

Do special characters with any codex, since they have typically unchangeable kits, ever benefit from added attacks due to their wargear. Some characters may have an "already included in their profile" statement, but many/most do not.

 

For example, Marbo. Is his "extra attack" already included in the profile in the codex, or do you assume not and then add it, or argue about whether his poisoned blade is a CCW.

 

Same issue for Calgar. When/if you play him, do you add another CC attack to his A value because he has two power fists, on top of his stat line, or do you assume the extra attack is already included?

 

I always pondered this for special characters, but then decided I'd treat them like stick-built sergeants, and add any bonuses assuming GW did not. IIRR army builder does not "add in" extra bonuses on any named characters - the programming assumes the extra weapon bonuses may already be included?

[Seahawk]

Do special characters with any codex, since they have typically unchangeable kits, ever benefit from added attacks due to their wargear.

Of course they do, unless it is already in the unit entry as saying "these extra attacks are already included in their profile." If it doesn't say that, and the guy has two usable weapons, then of course he gets an extra attack. There's no question whatsoever.

 

Special characters are only special because GW made them, not us.

[Thantoes]

Same issue for Calgar. When/if you play him, do you add another CC attack to his A value because he has two power fists, on top of his stat line, or do you assume the extra attack is already included?

 

I understand why you are asking this as I have often pondered it.

 

Using Calgar is a bad example however as he does have variable weapon load outs (fists + p/sword) but I think he is also good as he disproves that line of thinking. He has 4 attacks base. This he will get when he uses his P/sword. If it were as you suggested how would you do it? His base attacks -1 for using the sword as he doesnt have an additional weapon?

 

I believe the intent is that the stat-line is a absolute minimum and that everything is added from there. So yes, Calgar and IC's with 2 x CCW get their +1 attacks.

[greatcrusade08]

The thing about Marbo is with T3 and 4+save, a single AGL hit and hes instant dog meat...

 

Hes a one hit wonder...

 

GC08

[Legatus]

Marbo has 5+ armour.

[greatcrusade08]

Marbo has 5+ armour.

 

Even better :lol:

 

GC08

[Serif]

The issue with him is what a wonder that one hit is!

[gil galed]

apologies on the points cost, forgot about that,

 

having read the bigrule book i agree that because it's poisoned it puts it into the special weapon section and thus he does get +1 attack

[Lord Humongous]

Yes, Marbo would get a bonus attack. Its a poisoned weapon, which is a type of special weapon. He has a special weapon and a pistol, and does not have two special weapons, and his special weapon is not a powerfist or LC, and his special weapon is not mentioned as being two handed. Its exactly as if it said his knife ignored armor as a power weapon.

[DevianID]

The issue of Marbo came up with me too... basicly we concluded that for our hobby group to rule the knife he was holding was not a close combat weapon would never be accepted in any tourney. WYSIWYG means that an opponent would never question the knife not being a close combat weapon unless he had already read the codex, or was actively trying to gain an advantage by saying the knife was only decorative.

 

Either way, there is no right answer on this issue, only what the tourney organizer agrees to, or in friendly games what the friends agree to.

[greatcrusade08]

isnt his ranegd weapon a special weapon with the pistol rule?

If this is the case then he has two different special weapons and isnt entitled to the extra attack, or am i reading it wrong?

 

GC08

[Captain Malachi]

It's still a pistol, so in CC just counts as a CCW, same as all pistols.

[gil galed]

Either way, there is no right answer on this issue, only what the tourney organizer agrees to, or in friendly games what the friends agree to.

 

i actually disagree, i was wrong when i said he shouldn't get +1 A, the rule book clearly has a "special weapons" box and says that these count as CCW, one of those listed is poisoned, if he has a knife with the poisoned special rule it thus counts as a special weapon which by definition is a CCW.

 

edit: either way he shouldn't be getting into close combat anyway lol