Sisters of Chaos?

[Spareknikov]

It's a little thought I've had creep up on me from time to time, especially after seeing certain models of these ladies. So I was wondering, would it be plausible fluff-wise, to have them turn to Chaos somehow?

[Lady_Canoness]

oh wow!

 

Man, I just want to say, I love these topics - and if you've read my WIP trilogy you'll know why.

 

Okay, so before Melissia gets here with her flamers a' burnin' just waiting to eat your eyeballs for even bringing up such an *obviously* unthinkable question, I'm gonna jump right into the lion's jaws and say that YES it can happen -

 

*runs, dives behind stack of crates as bullets sing by*

 

People don't like it, but faith isn't infallible - it can weaken, and it can break. A Space Marine can fall, and therefore so can a Sister. So why don't we hear about renegade Sisters? Because they have a much closer connection to the Imperial Church than any Space Marine Chapter, they have less independence, and they don't go gallivanting off on their own accord without a hefty imperial presence at their backs. Are they all just waiting to be corrupted? Of course not! They are as loyal as you can hope to be, but lets face it people - they are human in every single sense of the word, and as such they can be broken. Will an entire Order fall? No. A convent? Doubtful. An Individual? Now we're talking!

 

-L_C

 

P.S. If you are interested in reading my fiction regarding this very issue, please follow the link: http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.p...howtopic=122098 (there are a few posts of development before the story proper begins)

[Drudge Dreadnought]

IBM (inbeforemellisa)

[the jeske]

yep , more or less what Lady C said . Before the last chaos dex it was the same with sm, very few whole chapters went chaos . the only way for a convent to go all chaos would be either on a barbaric/medivel world where there would be no one who could control them[no church , no inq] and if they took initiates from that planet . slow influence of home world rituals could end up with going chaos [or very barbaric sob] , but it would take a very long time. The other way for a whole convent to fall is when the whole planet falls to chaos .

[Drudge Dreadnought]

Getting lost in the warp is also a pretty good scenario for them falling.

[trolly]

hi,

 

i think it is very very possible for sister to fall

like in daemonifuge

especially when they are on their monthly period

 

cheers,

:D

[Razhbad]

Read the most Ciaphas Cain novel and you'll see how it can happen

[Grand Master Tyrak]

People don't like it, but faith isn't infallible

 

As a general principle, yes. As a rule, no - the Grey Knights are still out there proving you wrong.

 

This doesn't apply to the Sisters, however, as we know that one Sisters has fallen to Chaos. That's all we have for the official line, but we know it is possible, if highly unlikely.

 

This is all hypothetical though, since there is a threshold of corruptability. You don't have to be infallible, you just need to be faithful to a point where you'll end up being killed before you will turn. It's that hard to turn you. This applies to the Sisters - it's possible to turn them, but it's very hard, and almost all will die in the conversion attempt.

[Corpse.]

There are sources that say that its impossible. Others say they can be.

 

I say if the best of the best space marines of current (M41) can fall to chaos, sisters can too. Humans of all shapes and forms can fall. It just requires the right trigger with outlining events that lead up to the final momentus climax where they turn chaos. (They may not even know that they have until its too late)

 

A sister of battle is a fair bit more faithful then a space marine is from the start. Its even a dubious subject to question if a space marine has more faith in the emperor then his own primarch. (At least the first founding and original legions).

 

A SoB is a valued invitation because they are the hardest to obtain.

[Spareknikov]

Cheers Lady Canoness.

 

The main reason I brought this up rather than just doing it is because I had the Grey Knights in mind, but you've reminded me about the Sisters bio-background etc. As for rules, I'd just use the CSM Codex or the Witch Hunters Codex but twist the fluff behind it a little.

 

I've read up to the fifth or sixth book of Ciaphas Cain, and don't recall a heretic/renegade Sister, so either my memory is bad (again ;) ) or I haven't got that far just yet.

 

Thanks again :(

 

now if you excuse me, I have an exorcist to defile :P

[Iron-Daemon Forge]

If there anyone who has issue against this (sister turning chaos), then I would highly suggest to check one thing Daemonifuge, a comic the Black Library use to do, not fully read it myself, but there are a few part that say about Chaos sister of battle.

 

I belive the Black Library are doing PDF of the Warhammer Monthly comic which this was part off (check the BL site)

 

IP

[Seahawk]

I gots the entire serious, and it's goood. A convent seeking knowledge found a keeper of secrets locked in the ice of their pretty much wasteland of a planet. A secret keeper has lotsa knowledge, and they leeked plenty from it...until it escaped and...hmmm...persuaded 3/4 of them to serve it, disappearing into the warp. Inquisitor Hand arrived with Stern, investigating the place. The corrupted sisters burst out, eventually followed by the keeper. Stern gets oodles of knowledge from the psychic remains of the loyal ones from the convent, giving Hand the upper hand (teehee) to be able to banish the greater daemon and killing all the corrupt sisters.

 

So it's more than just a single sister that's been corrupted...the majority of a convent is more accurate. Go for it and ignore the whiners!

 

But there is absolutely zero fluff or justification for a Grey Knight to be corrupt. Just sayin'.

[Sons of Horus]

all i have to say is if Primarchs and space marines can fall to Chaos then why can't ordinary humans like the sisters fall :D

[Zealot Of Chaos]

People don't like it, but faith isn't infallible

 

As a general principle, yes. As a rule, no - the Grey Knights are still out there proving you wrong.

 

They are the exception that proves the rule, and while Grey Knights don't fall inquisitors do

[sexiest_hero]

There is a codex that talked about an whole convet of sisters falling to slaanesh,as they took too much joy from the torture they used. I can't for the life of me remember what codex though.

[Chaos Lord Shamrockius]

I totally think that the Sisters of Battle could fall, and it seems that it's now proven thought BL and Codex write ups...

 

Ok, not to be the total sceptic/conspiracy theorist/nut job of the forum but... Who says that Grey Knights can't fall? No one knows their home planet, no one entirely knows a great deal about them. They seem a total cover up from start to finish so who says that some of them haven't fallen and that too has been covered up?

 

Besides, having not seen one for myself in battle (thankfully), I don't entirely believe their existance... ;) :P :D

[the jeske]

Who says that Grey Knights can't fall?

GW.

[Chaos Lord Shamrockius]

Who says that Grey Knights can't fall?

GW.

 

 

Truth or another string to the conspiracy...?

[the jeske]

official GW statment off character no GK ever fell to chaos . same unchanged [and offten repeted] fluff since 2ed .

[Grand Master Tyrak]

the jeske Posted Today, 07:08 PM

official GW statment off character no GK ever fell to chaos . same unchanged [and offten repeted] fluff since 2ed .

 

The Grey Knights series by Ben Counter, despite being a bit dodgy fluff-wise, did bring up an interesting idea, namely that Grey Knights do have a price. The idea that everyone has their price could equally apply to the Grey Knights, except their price creates a paradox. The price is the complete and total destruction of Chaos and all things Daemonic. That is the price for corrupting them, which doesn't work since by paying that price, Chaos no longer exists for the Grey Knight to fall to. The price for corrupting the Grey Knights is essentially impossible to achieve, hence they are incorruptible.

 

Whilst the BL 'canonical' status still applies, it's an interesting idea.

[Chaos Lord Shamrockius]

I know the GW line is that a Grey Knight is uncorruptable by Chaos but... and forgive me for going some way off of the mark here to make my point.

 

To look at Biblical scripture, Saul was seen as being the greatest fanatisist against the church yet became known as St Paul and one of God's greatest servants and preachers. The general thought I'm trying to provoke is that great fanaticism, in any direction, is the thing that makes corruption by "the other side" possible. Horus fell due to being the Emperors greatest son, his views on the cleansing of the galaxy through the Great Crusade were so devout that when the Chaos gods could show him other views, he was sold by them and turned in totality to his new path. Whoever says that someone is "infallable" cannot see that black and white are not too far apart.

 

Maybe the Imperial line that a Grey Knight has never fallen to Chaos is a cover up, as if Imperial citizens were to think that the previously thought "incorruptable" could turn against the Imperium, what hope does that give for the other Astartes, the Imperial Guard, the regular Joe in the Hives and the whole of the Inquisition? If you promote something or someone as "unbreakable" and they break, the only follow to that is panic.

 

I know the general GW party line is that a Grey Knight is unbreakable, but from life experience and general study of this sort of thing, it's only the ambiguous, the run of the mill or the medocre that do not attract the attention of any great power. Where there is great reward, there is great risk. That's all I'm saying.

[Seahawk]

e was sold by them and turned in totality to his new path

Abaddon was right when he said "Horus was weak. Horus was a fool."

 

Imperial citizens were to think that the previously thought "incorruptable" could turn against the Imperium

Imperial citizens don't even know about the Grey Knights or anything about them, so no cover up is needed :o.

 

Where there is great reward, there is great risk

For the Grey Knights, the greatest reward is to sit by the hand of the Emperor in the afterlife. What could any other god possibly offer that they would want? They don't have a death wish, but death is better than anything else as they'd know they're going to the happy place.

[Chaos Lord Shamrockius]

For the Grey Knights, the greatest reward is to sit by the hand of the Emperor in the afterlife.

 

Forgive my nitpicking but the Emperor is in a state of semi-death/coma and therefore is not dead... hence they cannot sit at his side in the afterlife.

 

I still maintain that in any universe, factual or fictional, anything is corruptable. I would love to see a Chaos Special Character in future codex of a Grey Knight turned bad, and believe it possible. However strong their resolve, nothing is incorruptable and as you say, if the Imperial citizens do not know of the Grey Knights, the other Astartes do. Imagine how they would feel if there were to be tale of the incorruptable being corrupted. Bad enough having brother Legions turned renegade 10,000 years ago, of which most if not all of those that lived through that are now dead. Now add to that the fact that any who touch the warp are kept under scrutiny, be it Psychers/Librarians or those of the Inquisition. Surely Grey Knights are held to the same checks... and who's to say that one would NEVER fall through the cracks to the glories open to them in the Warp. They may hold their service to the semi dead-Emperor in high esteem but so did Horus once. And even though Abaddon declared him a fool and to be weak, he still followed him into damnation. As some clever fellow once said "Who is the fool? The fool, or the fool who follows?" To add to that, "or is it the fool who follows after the fool who follows"... I'll leave that one there as I'm confusing myself now.

 

I still maintain that the Grey Knights may be held in such esteem, but so were the Astartes as a whole once... and that was before Chaos was even known to exist on such a wide scale in the warp in the way we know it to. What chance of ANYONE falling now that they, and we, know of it in total.

[Grand Master Tyrak]

Forgive my nitpicking but the Emperor is in a state of semi-death/coma and therefore is not dead... hence they cannot sit at his side in the afterlife.

 

Doesn't matter. They believe it, therefore it works for them.

 

Plus, if they were susceptible to Chaos, what's the point of having them as a specialised Daemon-hunting force? If they are corruptible, there is no point to Grey Knights existing in the 40k universe. It would be like having Chaos Space Marines, but without the existence of Chaos. No point in them existing whatsoever. Their entire raison d'etre would be gone.

 

As some clever fellow once said "Who is the (more) fool? The fool, or the fool who follows (him)?"

 

Alec Guinness, moonlighting as Obi-Wan Kenobi.

 

Presumably that means the wise person is the one who knows what will happen if he goes down that road. The Grey Knights, who spend their days watching for their masters to inevitably fall to Chaos, know very well what happens then.

 

I still maintain that in any universe, factual or fictional, anything is corruptable. I would love to see a Chaos Special Character in future codex of a Grey Knight turned bad, and believe it possible.

 

Fair enough. Bear in mind you would completely wipe out the existing community of GK players in the process though.

 

As I said earlier though, whilst it may be true that everyone has their price, the price for the GKs may be one that Chaos in incapable of paying.

[the jeske]

I still maintain that in any universe, factual or fictional, anything is corruptable

thats not the case when you get a world made by a company . if Gw says there is no female sm there is no female sm , if they say GK never fell to chaos , they never did simple as that.