ICs

[shrike22]

Hello, i have a question about ICs and 'assault.'

 

If an IC moved within 2inches of a squad, and automatically joins them (which i think they do,) what happens if the unit is in CC? would he have to assault in the assault phase?

 

If it were say like this:

E=enemy

A=Ally/friendly

IC= well, IC

 

AEEEEEEA

AAAAAAAA

IC

 

This is (for an example) the IC after its moved. What would happen?

 

 

EDIT: Also, what would happen in a combat like this?

 

EEEEEEEEEEEE

EEEEEEEEEEEE

EEAAAAAAAEE

EEEEEEEEEEEE

EEEEEEEEEEEE

Now say in this one, the "A" is a powerfist toting termie or somehting else that rocks in CC. and "E" Is enemy what would happen if all the As killed all the green Es? would the rest consolidate into them or would the combat be broken off?

[JamesI]

The IC is not in base to base contact, so he can not fight or be attacked.

[Gentlemanloser]

Another Question would be what happens to IC that move within 2" of a Friendly mini in an already existing CC?

 

They would automatically join the Squad already in CC at the end of the movement Phase, be unable to charge (as the Squad is already in an Assault), unable to attack or be attacked (as they couldn't have moved into base combat in the movement phase), and would be unable to leave the Squad again until the combat had been resolved.

 

That's correct, isn't it?

[shrike22]

That's what i was trying to ask.

[Legatus]

Nope, see page 48 where these rules are described. An Independent Character cannot join or leave a unit while he or the unit is locked in combat or falling back. So the Independent Character would have to stay more than 2" away from such a unit, as described earlier on that page.

[Gentlemanloser]

would the rest consolidate into them or would the combat be brocken off?

 

If they didn't lose the combat and fail the moral test, they would consolidate in and the combat would continue next turn.

 

Nope, see page 48 where these rules are described. An Independent Character cannot join or leave a unit while he or the unit is locked in combat or falling back.

 

Ah! Remembered the falling back, but not the locked Assault one. ;)

 

Another Question about ICs and Assaults.

 

If a Fearless Squad and Fearless IC (attached or unattached to the Squad) lose a CC and suffer 'No Retreat' extra wounds, who suffers how many?

 

Do both suffer the total the combined Assault is lost by? Are they classed as seperate units and only suffer amounts of which they actually lost themselves? Does the loser get to assign who takes what extra wounds?

[Legatus]

Each fearless unit that took part in the combat and lost suffers the number of wounds, let's say 3, instead of taking the test. If the fearless IC was with the fearless unit, they all together would suffer 3 wounds, and the owning player would allocate them as per the normal rules. If the IC was by himself and not part of the unit, the IC would suffer 3 wounds and the unit would suffer 3 wounds.

[Gentlemanloser]

I wasn't sure about the attached bit, as the IC is classed as a seperate unit in the CC isn't he. :/

 

(It's just another layer to my dislike of the new Moral rules! ;) )

[Legatus]

The IC is only treated separately for making his attacks and being attacked. For all other purposes, especially morale tests and falling back, he is still a memeber of that unit.

 

EDIT: Also, what would happen in a combat like this?

(...)

Now say in this one, the "A" is a powerfist toting termie or somehting else that rocks in CC. and "E" Is enemy what would happen if all the As killed all the green Es? would the rest consolidate into them or would the combat be brocken off?

The combat would only stop if even a 6" pile on move from both sides would not result in any contact. See page 40, "Pile-In!".

[Thantoes]

If the IC was by himself and not part of the unit, the IC would suffer 3 wounds and the unit would suffer 3 wounds.

 

I would imagine that unless he were a W4 IC he would be dead by this point having lost combat by 3 wounds.This would be a fairly rare occurance I think with the assaulting squad hitting the enemy from the front and the IC coming from the back with 2 or more inches between the squads and the IC bases and the defender splitting his attacks.

 

But Legatus us right, this is how it would go down.

[Gornall]

He could still take armor saves on the No Retreat wounds.

[Legatus]

I would imagine that unless he were a W4 IC he would be dead by this point having lost combat by 3 wounds.This would be a fairly rare occurance I think with the assaulting squad hitting the enemy from the front and the IC coming from the back with 2 or more inches between the squads and the IC bases and the defender splitting his attacks.

The assumed situation is of course that teh IC is in the same combat with another friendly unit, in one example the IC is part of thet unit, in the other example it is not. An Independent Character cannot join a friendly unit at any time other than teh movement phase, and in the other phases the 2" minimum distance does not apply, so there are a number of ways the IC could enter combat right next to a friendly unit it would not be attached to.

[Thantoes]

Interesting, I had always assumed that the 2" rule was universal throughout phases and have kept distances sometimes. I will have to investigate my BRB when I get home as that could be somewhat good news ;)

[Frosty the Pyro]

The IC is only a seperate entity in CC during the begining phases of assult (determining hits, wounds, saves), once you hit determining assult results he is once again considered part of the unit for all purposes (assuming he was joined to begin with). If he was not joined he will independently take no retreat rolls, if he was joined he simply counts as another model for no retreat (aka fearless unit and fearless IC lose combat by 2, if joined the unit and ic as a whole takes 2 no retreat rolls, if not joined the unit takes 2 rolls, and the IC takes his own seperate 2 rolls.

 

The 2" rule only applies during the movement phase, not durring the assult phase.

 

In the case with the E's surounding the A's, the E's would still pile in so long as one of there models was engaged at the /begining/ of the assult. See pg 40 "pile-in!"

 

The only way a combat gets broken off is if at least one side is destroyed, one side falls back succesfully, models get destroyed so that each side is more than 12" from the other, use of the hit and run rule, one of the necron teleports that can remove freindlies from CC. I beleive that is all cases

[Gentlemanloser]

I would imagine that unless he were a W4 IC he would be dead by this point having lost combat by 3 wounds.

 

It can get faily nasty if you have a Powerful IC in the same combat as a much weaker unit.

 

For example, if you had a GKGM in the same combat as a 10 Man ST Squad. The attacker could concentrate on the STs, and (again for example only) kill enough they win the Assault by 7. The GKGM we'll say was unharmed, but now has to suffer an additional 7 extra saveable wounds from No Retreat.

 

Silly really.

 

Edit: Something else we just caught (that this thread reminded me of!) that 5th has changed.

 

ICs can now join each other to form 'super' units.

 

An Assault of a unit made up of only 2 or more ICs could get quite confusing...

[shrike22]

Wait- so "no retreat" works on all units in the assault? Never realised that. Yet another 'proud' moment for shrike...

[eyescrossed]

Wait- so "no retreat" works on all units in the assault? Never realised that. Yet another 'proud' moment for shrike...

It's the same as all units on the same side taking a Ld Test with the same modifier.

[gdeathlegion]

Does anyone actually know how to play? lol

 

The IC can only join a unit in the movement phase, this distinction must be made clear to the other player far before the assault phase.

 

If an IC wants to charge a squad that is locked with a friendly squad that the IC was NOT attached to he would have to be able to charge a opposing MODEL, not just be within two inches of a friendly combatant.

[Rosicrucian]

no-one is arguing that

 

this discussion is about how ICs act when in melee wherein opposing attacks have to allocated specifically to an IC, in many respects they are then treated as a separate unit until determining which side won the combat

 

I think it fairly safe to assume that most people posting on this forum have a pretty good understanding of how the game works (except me ofc, tbh i just make it up as I go along..........)