ISTs, what do you think?

[SoulReaver296]

didn't see a discussion about this here, sorry if there is

 

Now that the new guard codex is out, it has revamped the stormtrooper in several ways ("stronger" gun, special ops, access to valkeryies without agreeing to forgeworld rules). While some of this makes sense for our version of the "Big Toy Soldiers", some still doesn't (such as deepstrike). What would you want happen to our ISTs? points to consider

 

1. Cost: should ours fall in line with the cost of IGSTs? should ours be cheaper to allow us to field more? more expensive to represent even more elite troops?

 

2. the big issue, the hellgun: old profile, the "hot-shot" profile, or something completly different?

 

3. leadership: should ISTs retain their leadership, have the IGST troopers +1 (meaning 8, 9 on sarge), or drop to the same as IGSTs? (7, 8 on sarge), or any thoughts?

 

4. equipment: Should more special weapons be available to ISTs (3, like veterans)? should the sergeant retain their access to really powerful wargear (things like refractor fields, lightning claws, and artificer armor)? both plausible due to Inquisitorial influence

 

5. special rules: while things like deepstrike and infiltrate do not make AS much sense as they do on IGSTs (and it could be overpowered) same with the spec ops, are there other special rules that would be more in line with the inquisition?

[number6]

This has indeed come up before. But, in brief, there is one answer to all your questions.

 

A: Nothing changes for Inquisitorial Storm Troopers. The new IG codex has no affect whatsoever.

 

Yes, this can cause some head scratching and/or teeth gnashing, especially with respect to wargear. But for us =I= players, this is Old News. Our codexes are old and the FAQs do little, if anything at all, to update our rules to the current rules set in either the current BRB, more recent codexes, or both. Sadly, them's the breaks.

 

There is always one caveat: you can alter the rules for your games in any way you and your opponent can agree upon. So if you want the new "hotshot" hellguns for your ISTs, you can have them ... provided your opponent agrees that you should. Depending on your circumstances, this may or may not be easy to accomplish. Always remember: without mutual agreement, the game must be played RAW, warts and all.

[SoulReaver296]

I meant what do you think ISTs would be like in terms of the next inquisition codex, or what you would want them to be like there (provided they are still in there). sorry for the confusion

[Senseilord Ashahara]

I'd like them to be left well alone to be honest.

[skadi]

I like the targeters on the hellguns a lot more than the new hot-shot lasguns, especially since i mainly just max out on special weapons for them.

[Inquisitor Fox]

I actually would love them to match the profile of the new IG Stormtroopers exactly, with perhaps a few more wargear options, and the points cost adjusted to fit their role in an Inquisition Army as a Troops choice instead of an Elites choice. This is as much an ease of use thing as it is a fluff thing... literally they're just regular Guard Stormtroopers assigned to the Inquisition.

 

Likewise I would love to see the Valkyrie as an Inquisition Fast Attack option, or perhaps as a dedicated transport for the ISTs.

 

Easy to use, fluffy, and fun!

[Aidoneus]

We plan to use the new IG stormtroopers to replace our ISTs in my Fixing Daemonhunters thread. If you're interested in some homegrown rules updates for DHs, check it out.

[Grey Mage]

I think its crazy that with the allies rules you could have two units of C:DH or C:WH stormtroopers, a unit of C:IG stormtroopers, and drop them all into a FA slot of three Valkyries... and then have to be triple sure you didnt confuse their rules.

[jakehunter52]

I finished reading the Ciaphas Cain series just a bit ago and it briefly delves into the background of stormtroopers. Apparently their whole organizational structure and a very good part of their existence is based off the skimming the cream off the top for use in ISTs. And that should make us feel kinda good, cause all this IG hype...well, those were the "dropouts" that couldn't cut it for our dexes. Well, to answer your questions in order:

 

1) I think the cost is fine. You can make the exact build as an IST with IG vets. Give them carapace armor and you have the the near exact build for the exact points. The only differences are we have targeters, ap 5 and universal Ld 8 and they have krak grenades and can take 3 special weapons but overall very close. While our "eliteness" is not necessarily expressed in points cost as well as the IG ones are, it is very balanced for the purposes of game play and shouldn't be changed.

 

2.

We plan to use the new IG stormtroopers to replace our ISTs in my Fixing Daemonhunters thread. If you're interested in some homegrown rules updates for DHs, check it out.

 

I think this is a bad idea. It doesn't make sense when you think about what the =I= mostly goes up against. The Hereticus is going up against badly equipped cultists and traitor PDF, the Xenos looks for things like Genestealer cults and Tau diplomats, which are also going to be protected by inconspicuous and thus, lightly armed guards/followers/etc. And the Malleus...most daemons don't even have armor. What would make better sense is that lot of Inquisitors are going to be encountering hostile cells in which they will be heavily outnumbered, so should equipt something that has a high rate of fire and mild armor busting capability. Thus, the hellgun. I think it is great right now and fits fluff.

 

3. Leadership is also fine as it is. They are best of the best and are able to think independently, and so having universal Ld 8 isn't a bad idea. Also keeps cost down.

 

4. Not a bad idea. We need something to separate us for our IG cousins and this would make sense. Our ability to switch out for shotguns will hopefully be kept (with manstopper rounds too!) and that way we could tailor to situations and possibly give excuse to switch to hot shot las guns (to counter what I said above) for an increase. But thankfully, for the time being, we still have our old fall back: Artificer armour, refractor field, twin lightning claws sergeant of doom.

 

5. Once again, it won't be something we see expanded until the new codex but we can still take solace that we still have the ability to infiltrate and deepstrike, both tactically advantageous.

[Red Lost Soldier]

As I mentioned here, I'm not sure I'd like our next incarnation of IST to match the new IG ST.

 

The points cost for a basic troop choice would simply be too high, considering their resilience. Space Marine costs with Fire Warrior resilience does not make for a good basic troop choice.

 

I like the ridiculous armoury access our IST have, even though I hardly ever use it because of cost. Something I'd like to keep. I also like the reasonably high leadership, though it makes IST sergeants relatively redundant.

 

I'm not sure how I'd change them for the next edition, but I'd like them to be reasonably costed, and have some unique or interesting options that normal ST don't have.

[Senseilord Ashahara]

'stubbon' would be nice though.

[Grand Master Iapetus]

When you think about outfitting them with a transport (which is almost a neccesity no matter which parent codex they come from to make them survivable and maximize their effectivenes), they are almost cost identical in terms of what you get for what you are paying. Consider this:

 

- Our basic IST is markedly cheaper, albeit with a less effective basic weapon.

- Our weapon options can be slightly less expensive depending on which ones you take

- Their vehicle is less expensive

 

If they ever gave us the cheaper transport option, I would argue that our current ISTs would be preferable...

[Xelloss]

It's funny how just by bringing an even less cost-balanced unit, GW made the IST seems balanced...

 

My opinion : same stat, same gear, same price, add grenades and change from 2 to 3 special weapons choice. One more special weapon means a HUGE difference for overall cost of a unit : you must not think "a unit cost X and for Y point I can add special weapons", but, "I have special weapon in an unit for Z, and I can sacrifice some of them to get Y extra points".

[SoulReaver296]

Im starting to think that they should have the same stat line and equipment (cheaper transports and free kraks, though... maintain 2 special weapons and free shotguns) with (1 OR any) of 3 options at the costs indicated (sorta like veterans and stormtroopers combined); 1- Members upgrade hellguns to hotshot lasguns for 4pts per model, 2- you may field ONE extra special weapon at 1.5X the weapons cost, rounding down, 3- i haven't thought of yet

[Wrath]

The most important things to me are that they retain Carapace, higher Leadership and Ballistic Skill, Veteran access to wargear, and low relative cost (compared to GKs). I'd prefer keeping the longer ranged Hellgun instead of the new Hot-Shot Lasgun.

 

Generally, since they should be functioning far more like line troops than IGSTs do, they should have a better open field weapon than the relatively short-ranged Hot-Shot. Functionally they should be more akin to Grenadiers than to Stormtroopers, really. Elite line infantry with great weapon training, better armor, and access to superior basic and special weapons.

[blindcider]

I like the IST the way they are; cheap and cheerful.

 

they are great for holding objectives, just a shame you can't have larger squads

 

Also mine are mounted in a Valkyrie (or 3), Perfectly fluffy as an Inquisitor lord is able to requisition equipment from imperial guard armies! My Land raider redeemer on the other hand as a transport for the IL is less fluffy...