Help agains SM

[Plague Father]

Hi Im workin on my army and Im still havin' trouble with it. (btw I know my name says "plauge" and not "plague"... im workin to change that)

 

Anyway heres what I have so far:

 

Daemon Prince (MoN, Wings, Warptime) 175

Chaos Sorcerer (MoN, Term Arm, Warptime) 160

 

PM x7 (Plas pistol x2, Champ w/ PW, Melta Bombs) + Rhino 261

PM x7 (Plas pistol x2, Champ w/ PW, Melta Bombs) + Rhino 261

PM x7 (Plas pistol x2, Champ w/ PW, Melta Bombs) + Rhino 261

PM x7 (Plas pistol x2, Champ w/ PW, Melta Bombs) + Rhino 261

 

Dreadnought (T-L lascannon, CCW) 125

 

Vindicator (Daemonic Possession) 145

 

Total = 1474

 

 

________________________________________________

 

Not sure why Im having trouble with this list. The friends I play use mostly shooty armies. Like way shooty (SM, Tau, Dark Eldar)

The SM takes only Rocket launchers in his squads. and against the DE disintegrator ... well PMs are basically cheesy goo.

 

What SM usually runs is:

 

x2 Chaplian (Jump pack) w/ 9 Jump infantry (PW on sarg)

 

Everything else he doesnt move till turn 4 or 5 he need to capture points

 

Tac Sq split (5 man w/ plas and RL) (5 w/ sarg w/ PW)+ rhino

Tac Sq split (5 man w/ plas and RL) (5 w/ sarg w/ PW)+ rhino

 

Devo Sq x5 w/ sarg w/ PW (x5 RL)

Devo Sq x5 w/ sarg w/ PW (x5 RL)

 

x2 Pred w/ T-L Lascannons

 

 

that should be around 1500

 

what he will do is jump his two chaps all over the field at my troops until they are all toast (which with the chaps PW + litergies of hate my PMs dont usually last 1 round of combat) After hes eliminated my troops he will jump to various vehicles and use the kraks to take down anything his ungodly amount of RLs havent killed yet. round turn 4 or 5 he will jump the two halves of his combat troops into the rhinos and zoom to the capture points and thus winning. Ive gotten lucky a few times by takin down the chaps but even then trying to get thru the wall of RLs is difficult at that point. ive tried hiding till the 5th turn ive tried and all out assault on his lines... nothing seems to work. :/

 

not to mention he is like .. the luckiest dice roller ever... arse

[Citizen Snips]

Not sure what you are doing to lose to marines. One thing I noticed is that your SM friend likes assault troops and you like nurgle. You should be playing heavy defense vs most of his army. Few things I would change on your lists:

 

Nurgle Sorcerer with warptime is not that great for its point cost. Since he is nurgle, he can not use warptime and than his force weapon in the same turn, only Tzeentch can do that. If you wont want to run another prince, Typhus is always great, though he usually needs a land raider. A normal chaos lord of nurgle with a daemon weapon could work too. A poison daemon weapon that always wounds on a 4+ and can re roll wounds. Those probably would do better rather than the Nurgle sorcerer.

 

Your plague marines should take advantage from the double weapon system. Drop the plasma pistol and give them plasma guns if they sit on a point, or melta guns if you want to assault with them. Plague are initiative 3, this is the one unit that should always have a power fist on it rather than a power weapon.

 

Dreads to me are better for CC since the crazed rule usually bones over shooting ones. You could try to fit in 2 obliterators instead and you can split them into two different groups.

 

My suggestion is to always go for 2nd turn. Play defensive with everything you have except for maybe 1 or 2 rhinos coming around on opposite sides. You have to watch his assault squads since that seems to be whats always getting you. A plague squad should be able to hold a chaplin and his squad up for more than enough time to get your daemon prince in position. Vindicators are fairly tough to pop and his missiles should be bouncing off that thing.

[chillin]

You shouldn't be having so much trouble against his list.

As for your list...Wow ! it's really bad I'm afraid. No wonder you're getting beat every time.

What is that lone termi sorc for ?? Useless + expensive, drop him.

Dread = undependable, shoots when you need him to attack, runs forward for no reason when you need him to shoot, drop him.

Use pts for some oblits for his preds.

Why plaz pistols on squads ?? Absolutely the worst/most useless special weop. Give them plaz (guns), or meltas or flamers. I would say in your situtation against s/m's 2 plas is best, against DE and tau the other weops come more into play.

Give the PM champs PF, they are int.3 anyway, with PF 1 hit with instasquish the chappy. I would trade that vindi in on a defiler or 2 oblits.

Those chappies and the jump inf. should go down to concentrated plaz fire. Keep you units within countercharge range of each other so if 1 of the PM's does survive you can countercharge and swamp him in PM's.

Don't be in a hurry to disembark from rinos, remember you can shoot 2 plaz (guns not pistols :) ) out of the rino. When you do disembark, use empty rino to block LoS from his ML squads.

Keep DP hidden (if terrain permits) first round or 2 until you have some units in hth or at least 1 of those preds destroyed. Never run DP out in front of the rest of your army by himself.

That s/m list really shouldn't be that hard to beat.

good luck, hope this helps.

[Corpse.]

I second the termi sorcerer. Either have him hang out with your PM's in power armor, or deep strike him for a cheap combi-melta attack and try to act like termicide until you get terminators to replace him for the role. (Basicly, get terminators for him to hang out with, or take him in power armor with the marines)

 

You lack powerfists, hitting a dreadnought on a 6 is not good. Put one or two fists in there, especially for wraithlords, and the instant kill potential for T4 multi-wound models like space marine heros. (One big reason your list falters here)

 

Two plasma pistols. Ok, I'l assume you like to get the charge, and you like bolter fire. Here is the basis:

1 plasma pistol is inferior to a meltagun, and costs the same, with instant death/anti armor values.

You get a pistol, for rapid firing you come out with 2 less shots while having meltaguns, and you face marines so meltaguns are better, even within pistol range.

 

I would hate to say it, but replace those pistols with meltas. I know it means chopping things up. Sorry.

 

The dreadnought isnt entirely reliable, and may work well with your army. But its spendy and costs as much as your vindicator. I say replace his arm with a missile launcher (make one arm a DCCW, and the other the Missile Launcher, comes out at 100pts, pick frag when he wants to shoot your stuff)

 

Vindicator has 1 weapon, and its the only tank. Odds are, it will die even with possession on hand. I dont suggest possession unless its 1k and its the only tank, or it has buddy vehicles to take hits at 1500-2000 points. It is a magnet, and people want to be tempted to shoot it. That means taking possession off, and putting those points elsewhere. (At least until you get another tank buddy thats more tempting to kill then a dreadnought with TLLC)

 

Against enemy anti plaguemarine shots, you rush forward and try to use your vehicles for cover. You just need to hide half the unit behind a rhino to get the 4+ cover save. That means making him waste shots killing the transport, then make him take pot shots at your plague marines getting 4+ cover saves.

 

Besides that, with the addition of powerfists your 28PM strong force can be bolstered a bit more. I always run 3 units of PM inside rhinos at 10 each when being mechanised. I outnumber you with a few fists, and will get more kills then a power weapon in return on average.

 

 

With 25+20+26(un-used) you end up with enough points for some more deathy additions. Up to you what to add with that.

[Plague Father]

Thanks for the tips :D

 

ill put them into effect and post the results

 

-joe-

[LuNCHBiZZLe]

here are my 2 cents agreeing with corpse go for meltas instead of PP,I would switch the dread to a TLL/ML and just shoot the world away if he hits your own stuff the reroll is optional so take it if he hits don't if he misses and shoot frag cause you will allways shrug it off,I would leave DP on the vindie but you could drop it to take the PF on 2 ACs so thats your call.(wow thats alot for 2 cents)

[Night Stalker]

this is one of the downfalls of the codex.

 

plasma pistols are always* worse than meltaguns.

 

Also, Power Weapons are rarely worth it when compared to power fists. And on I3 unit they sucks (as you'll strike last often).

 

I dont know who designed this codex, with so many obvious choices ... there is bright side - in C:IG they do power weapon vs power fist even worse :P mission impossible ;)

 

(not counting meeting with avatar)

[chillin]

plasma pistols are always* worse than meltaguns.

 

Plaz pistols are always worse then every other special weop.

[Drudge Dreadnought]

plasma pistols are always worse than bolt pistols.

 

Fixed for accuracy :rolleyes:

[Night Stalker]

yeah, i fried mine too ... ;)

[Lord Humongous]

What SM usually runs is:

 

x2 Chaplian (Jump pack) w/ 9 Jump infantry (PW on sarg)

 

Everything else he doesnt move till turn 4 or 5 he need to capture points

 

Tac Sq split (5 man w/ plas and RL) (5 w/ sarg w/ PW)+ rhino

Tac Sq split (5 man w/ plas and RL) (5 w/ sarg w/ PW)+ rhino

 

Devo Sq x5 w/ sarg w/ PW (x5 RL)

Devo Sq x5 w/ sarg w/ PW (x5 RL)

 

x2 Pred w/ T-L Lascannons

 

5 rocket launchers in a devastator squad? Really? And isn't that 4 heavy support selections?

With all that (illegal) anti-tank, I bet your rhinos and vindicator (and DP, and eventually marines) don't last long. Popping the rhinos makes it so the super-assault squad can charge them... otherwise those guys are nigh useless (easier for you to get the charge against, nulling the Litanies of Hate).

I bet against a legal list, you'd do OK. Granted, the advice above is also true; ditch the plasma pistols for melta guns or plasma guns, ditch the PW + meltabombs for PFs, and make the sorcerer... something else. Lord with a demon weapon does seem good (its freaking lightning claws with d6 bonus attacks) and whatever yah do, do NOT put him in terminator armor. Buy him wings (if you can) and put him in one of the rhinos- that's a trick loyalists can't pull!