Mobile anti-infantry combat units

[Ethrion]

So the other day i was trying to figure out if fielding predators was at all worth it anymore. Seeing as 1) they have shocking side armour 2) they can't fire side sponsons if they have moved 3) with all the outflanking and deep striking there is no longer such thing as 'sitting back in your deployment zone safe and sound' and 4) most people these days pop tanks by melta weaponry up close and personal.

 

It all led me to think that it is a waste of points to start upgrading the predator with lascannons because when you lose one it'll be a costly loss. So if a predator is no longer a sit back and shoot anti-tank vehicle anymore then what is it and can it be used?

 

I went with the idea of keeping it at its base cost of 60 points, no upgrades, just the autocannon. Ok so now it is a light armour, anti-infantry vehicle. But it can't drive around on it's own, it needs support. So what can complement it? If it's driving around (always moving 6") then it might need cqc support if enemy units get too close. I could go with an assault squad but in the interests of keeping the cost down I decided on a 10 man scout squad armed for cqc and having the sgt carry a powerfist for added punch.

 

But what if the scouts need to leave or need a little extra firepower. Giving them a razorback with standard twin-linked heavy bolter would do the trick. Now they have 2 mobile fire support vehicles that also act as cover. As well as (if they combat squadded or took 5 casualties at some point) having a transport that they can hop into.

 

So, overall you have a mobile anti-infantry, cqc proficent combat unit that costs only 265 points and that can score objectives. And if you make sure you have a couple of these combat units then you can either respond to multiple locations or combine as one force.

 

If you swapped the scouts for an assault squad then the cost rises to 315. You get an increased range of assault but no more deadly in cqc and they can't score.

Tactical marines instead of scouts would still be able to score and would be able to rapid fire if anything got too close but they are pretty poor in cqc and wouldn't do half as good a job protecting the razorback and predator.

 

Naturally the rest of the army composition is open to individual preferences (definitely need some anti-tank units) but as a combined unit I think it does a decent job.

 

Basically, this is the only useful role I can see the predator having, especially with the new IG and their dominance over tank warfare. Predators: keep it cheap, keep it moving and it's not painful when you end up losing one because you only paid 60 points for it. Anyway, that's just my two cents - CO

[Giga]

IMHO, it's too costly to replace the autocannon turret with twinlinked lascannon.

 

However, having lascannon sponsors is, I believe, a great option simply because it's on the overall so cheap.

 

I mean, 120 points for a tank with 48" overall range, armor 13, two lascannon and two autocannon shots per turn? It can reliably bust open most regular vehicles (such as light and medium transports), as well as safely put wounds on monstrous creatures (which is something I face often at my local store).

 

Again, it's only 120 points. If you have high-threat things in your army, it's likely the opponent will ignore the camping predator in your deployment zone. Otherwise, even if they kill it, it only accounts for a small amount of your overall points.

 

If anti-infantry is specifically what you need, then a dakkapred is a great option. At only 85 points it can fire 8 AP4 shots per turn, that will wound most infantry on 3+ or 2+, as well as still have the capability to bust open light transports with its autocannon.

[ShinyRhino]

Hmmm, I can't remember without looking in the Codex, but can you buy a transport for Scouts? If not, you'll have another unit sitting still in your deployment zone while the Scouts take their ride.

 

You might consider a unit of Heavy Bolter-armed Attack Bikes as anti-infantry support for your DakkaPred. You'll have 9 heavy bolter shots, plus twin-linked bolters to fire at anything coming toward the Predator. The heavy bolters can knock down landspeeders with volume of fire, and will make assault troops weather a lot of incoming fire as they try to get close. Should the assaulters reach the Pred, you can leave with the bikes, and STILL light up the attackers as they swarm your Predator. Like in that scene in Saving Private Ryan when the Germans turn the AA gun on the troops attacking the Panzer with grenades and small arms.

 

The attack bikes are also a very tarpitty unit against low Strength units like Guard or Tau, allowing your Predator time to get away, though I'd sacrifice the Pred before I sac'd the bikes.

[Resv]

Right now it looks like your are leaning more towards over defending an asset rather than actually increasing it's effectiveness. For all the points you want to throw at defending your Predator you could buy another one or get a Land Raider. Castling up units to protect just one Dakka Pred seems like it would be perfect for dropping a Template and taking as many units, if not the whole formation, down in one shot. If you have units that are sitting there waiting for either an assault or Medium range fire that unit is then harmless to the enemy. Even if you are actively engaging the enemy with your Predator your defending unit might be out of range or, if they moved with the tank, they might not be able to fire to their full range.

 

There is a rule I have been introduced too that was developed during the Second World War that states: 2 Tanks = 3 Tanks. Meaning by the time it takes to kill 2 tanks you will have done 3 tanks worth of damage. If you are really worried about your opponent taking out your one Predator then a simple answer to give you would be field two Predators, or even three. Saturate your enemy with fire so that there is no chance that all three tanks will go down in the same turn.

 

The real tip I can give you is try to be as fluid as possible in your battles. If you lose your Predator then what other units do you have one hand that might be able to fill the same role on the fly?

[ShinyRhino]

There is a rule I have been introduced too that was developed during the Second World War that states: 2 Tanks = 3 Tanks. Meaning by the time it takes to kill 2 tanks you will have done 3 tanks worth of damage. If you are really worried about your opponent taking out your one Predator then a simple answer to give you would be field two Predators, or even three. Saturate your enemy with fire so that there is no chance that all three tanks will go down in the same turn.

 

 

They talk a lot about this whenever they do a documentary on the M4 Sherman, like the episode of Tank Overhaul where they fuse two old Sherman hulls into one.

[Ethrion]

Right now it looks like your are leaning more towards over defending an asset rather than actually increasing it's effectiveness. For all the points you want to throw at defending your Predator you could buy another one or get a Land Raider. Castling up units to protect just one Dakka Pred seems like it would be perfect for dropping a Template and taking as many units, if not the whole formation, down in one shot. If you have units that are sitting there waiting for either an assault or Medium range fire that unit is then harmless to the enemy. Even if you are actively engaging the enemy with your Predator your defending unit might be out of range or, if they moved with the tank, they might not be able to fire to their full range.

 

There is a rule I have been introduced too that was developed during the Second World War that states: 2 Tanks = 3 Tanks. Meaning by the time it takes to kill 2 tanks you will have done 3 tanks worth of damage. If you are really worried about your opponent taking out your one Predator then a simple answer to give you would be field two Predators, or even three. Saturate your enemy with fire so that there is no chance that all three tanks will go down in the same turn.

 

The real tip I can give you is try to be as fluid as possible in your battles. If you lose your Predator then what other units do you have one hand that might be able to fill the same role on the fly?

 

Hmm interesting stuff! So, perhaps the best use for the predator is to upgrade it slightly with side heavy bolters (that way they still have a role to play if they get a weapon destroyed result) and have them in a pair. 2 Predator Destructors hunting light armour and infantry units. Possibly with an accompaniment of heavy bolter carrying attack bikes - maybe 2 squadrons of 2 bikes? That formation would be more aggressive and could allow for cqc units to operate independently somewhere else.

 

Basically, I'm just trying to come up with the most ideal role for the predator considering all the threats out there. I think it's best to keep it moving 6" and despite it's armour 13 in the front it still has shocking armour in the side and rear. Keeping it a cheap anti-infantry predator seems to also be the most sensible weapon load out. Expensive lascannon upgrades on such a weak chassis is a bad idea I'm thinking.

[Resv]

I run a 1500 list that has done me very well where I run two Predators as support for my Bike Troops. One attached to each unit of 8 Bikes and 1 Attack Bike with a Multi-Melta. I completely support Heavy Bolter sponsons on your Predator for that extra kick. With two Predators you might try to do the "Russian Two-Step" by moving one tank a full 12 inches and leaving the other tank stationary or only moving 6 inches and firing. This was a tactic developed during World War 2 and perfected during the Cold War before the advent of sophisticated targeting technology. Your Vanguard tank would rush right at your enemy while the real threat was right behind it shooting at you. Then, after the shot they would switch with the one tank reloading and rushing becoming the new Vanguard while the other tank lays down fire.

 

Now imagine this maneuver with 3 Predators. Or 2 Predators and Vindicator. Or, better yet, 2 Land Raiders and a Vindicator. Your solid state heavy hitter, the Vindicator, is a huge threat but the flanks are being covered by two pieces of armor that are directly laying down selective fire. What is the biggest threat on the table? What amounts of anti-tank can your Opponent reliably field to take all three threats out fast enough before you reach turn 4-5; when armor becomes secondary to either objectives or wrapping up kill points?

 

You could think of this like chess, aggressively taking one unit for another in attrition based combat. OR, and this is how I think of it, as a game of GO. Where you attempt to occupy as much territory as you can with as few pieces as possible. The more immobile you play the less opportunity you have to occupy territory and exploit your opponents movement.