BLACK BLΠFLY Posted May 11, 2009 Share Posted May 11, 2009 Does Dante also benefit from the preferred enemy rule? 0b Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/168239-question-regarding-dante-and-preferred-enemy/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted May 11, 2009 Share Posted May 11, 2009 Is he within the bubble. Of course. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/168239-question-regarding-dante-and-preferred-enemy/#findComment-1984039 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted May 11, 2009 Author Share Posted May 11, 2009 The bubble originates around him. I ask because the rule says all friendly units. Someone I played this weekend said it wouldn't include himself. 0b Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/168239-question-regarding-dante-and-preferred-enemy/#findComment-1984045 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted May 11, 2009 Share Posted May 11, 2009 BO - its the classic "can a model be within X inches of itself" argument. Some people believe yes, others believe no. Im gonna ship this off to OR and let them give their thoughts. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/168239-question-regarding-dante-and-preferred-enemy/#findComment-1984053 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maligoare Posted May 11, 2009 Share Posted May 11, 2009 Take Kantor as an example - his ability (+1A) explicitly states that he does not benefit from it. This suggests that in absence of a FAQ, a character's ability should say if he can not use it on himself. From the opposite side of the argument, RAW does not explicitly say he does get the benefit, so I've probably not really helped there... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/168239-question-regarding-dante-and-preferred-enemy/#findComment-1984062 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Souchan Posted May 11, 2009 Share Posted May 11, 2009 Take Kantor as an example - his ability (+1A) explicitly states that he does not benefit from it. This suggests that in absence of a FAQ, a character's ability should say if he can not use it on himself. From the opposite side of the argument, RAW does not explicitly say he does get the benefit, so I've probably not really helped there... Also There are Abilities that specify that they do have an effect on their owner and his squad like Straken. Quite simply, GW don't write rules tight enough. Me I would personally go with doesn't effect him unless specifically mentioned, but seriously, they need to get used to mentioning these details(which fortunately with Pedro and Straken, they did) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/168239-question-regarding-dante-and-preferred-enemy/#findComment-1984084 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zinge Posted May 11, 2009 Share Posted May 11, 2009 Dante - Shows people how to fight any enemy, but can't quite figure it out for himself!!! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/168239-question-regarding-dante-and-preferred-enemy/#findComment-1984097 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKeeM Posted May 11, 2009 Share Posted May 11, 2009 Dante is inspiring to other people, he does not inspire himself. Same for Corbulo he does not get FC for holding the grail. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/168239-question-regarding-dante-and-preferred-enemy/#findComment-1984107 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus Posted May 11, 2009 Share Posted May 11, 2009 It would make his master crafted axe rather pointless... :huh: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/168239-question-regarding-dante-and-preferred-enemy/#findComment-1984117 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted May 11, 2009 Share Posted May 11, 2009 It would make his master crafted axe rather pointless... :huh: The axe was made mastercrafted at a time when preferred enemy made you hit on 3+. So, it had a point then. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/168239-question-regarding-dante-and-preferred-enemy/#findComment-1984120 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus Posted May 11, 2009 Share Posted May 11, 2009 Ah, good point. It would have somewhat diminished the point of him having a higher weapon skill and a special rule that lowered the opponent's weapon skill by 1, then. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/168239-question-regarding-dante-and-preferred-enemy/#findComment-1984133 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted May 11, 2009 Share Posted May 11, 2009 Ah, good point. It would have somewhat diminished the point of him having a higher weapon skill and a special rule that lowered the opponent's weapon skill by 1, then. true, but there are still cases where it would have mattered (demon princes, bloodthirsters) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/168239-question-regarding-dante-and-preferred-enemy/#findComment-1984143 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted May 11, 2009 Author Share Posted May 11, 2009 He should get to reroll one dice twice. I mean heck we are paying dearly for it! 0b :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/168239-question-regarding-dante-and-preferred-enemy/#findComment-1984174 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty the Pyro Posted May 11, 2009 Share Posted May 11, 2009 Ah, good point. It would have somewhat diminished the point of him having a higher weapon skill and a special rule that lowered the opponent's weapon skill by 1, then. No the old prefered enemy (always hit on a 3+) still used your weapon skill for determining what the enemy needs to roll to hit you. lowering enemy weapon skill is akin to having a better toughness or save. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/168239-question-regarding-dante-and-preferred-enemy/#findComment-1984210 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus Posted May 11, 2009 Share Posted May 11, 2009 Yes, against WS7 and WS3... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/168239-question-regarding-dante-and-preferred-enemy/#findComment-1984330 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Souchan Posted May 11, 2009 Share Posted May 11, 2009 Ah, good point. It would have somewhat diminished the point of him having a higher weapon skill and a special rule that lowered the opponent's weapon skill by 1, then. true, but there are still cases where it would have mattered (demon princes, bloodthirsters) It wouldn't work against them, old preferred enemy didn't work against MC's Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/168239-question-regarding-dante-and-preferred-enemy/#findComment-1984675 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jawaballs Posted May 12, 2009 Share Posted May 12, 2009 Dante is inspiring to other people, he does not inspire himself. Same for Corbulo he does not get FC for holding the grail. This is where it gets turned into just a bunch of wonky rules lawyering. Why would an item, that enhances every one within range of it, NOT enhance the person holding it? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/168239-question-regarding-dante-and-preferred-enemy/#findComment-1985453 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jawaballs Posted May 12, 2009 Share Posted May 12, 2009 It would make his master crafted axe rather pointless... ^_^ The master crafted axe is a holdover from 4th edition, and is still useful against targets that do not have a WS. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/168239-question-regarding-dante-and-preferred-enemy/#findComment-1985458 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus Posted May 12, 2009 Share Posted May 12, 2009 This is where it gets turned into just a bunch of wonky rules lawyering. Why would an item, that enhances every one within range of it, NOT enhance the person holding it? Because it is up to the rules of said item whether it is actually enhancing every one within range of it, or only everyone within range of the model holding it. In case of Dante it is not even any item at all, it is Dante himself who affects friendly models within range of him. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/168239-question-regarding-dante-and-preferred-enemy/#findComment-1985471 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeattleDV8 Posted May 12, 2009 Share Posted May 12, 2009 from the BA "codex"...any friendly unit of Blood Angels within 12" of him counts......" Dante meets the criteria, ie BA unit, within the bubble (unless you are playing on non-Euclidean board). It is his example which inspires the troops....He always fights with Preferred Enemy. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/168239-question-regarding-dante-and-preferred-enemy/#findComment-1985857 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus Posted May 12, 2009 Share Posted May 12, 2009 No, "any friendly unit of Blood Angels within 12" of Dante" does not apply to Dante himself. "Friendly model of Dante within 12" of Dante" is not a description that is applied to Dante. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/168239-question-regarding-dante-and-preferred-enemy/#findComment-1985866 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeattleDV8 Posted May 12, 2009 Share Posted May 12, 2009 Dante is at point X. Any BA model within 12" of point X get preferred enemy. Point X is still "within" the bubble. I see nothing in the rules that disallow it effecting Dante , unlike the IC's mentioned above. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/168239-question-regarding-dante-and-preferred-enemy/#findComment-1985894 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trekari Posted May 12, 2009 Share Posted May 12, 2009 Unless you consider that, by the rules, the "bubble" could very well be a donut, with Dante as the inner "hole." Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/168239-question-regarding-dante-and-preferred-enemy/#findComment-1985897 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus Posted May 12, 2009 Share Posted May 12, 2009 Dante is at point X.Any BA model within 12" of point X get preferred enemy. Point X is still "within" the bubble. Dante is not "at point X". He is that reference point X. The rule affects units that are "friendly to reference point X" and "within a certain range of Reference point X". Dante wouuld neither be described as "friendly to Dante" or as "within 12" or Dante". He is Dante, and the rule affects units friendly to him and within 12" of him. It is not a bubble that is created at the area where he is with he himself inside that bubble. You go to Dante as the reference point, and then you look at what units are near to him and are friendly to him. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/168239-question-regarding-dante-and-preferred-enemy/#findComment-1985913 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeattleDV8 Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 Silly and overcomplex, Legatus. GW does not think things though that deeply. Most of the rules are very simple (not always logical, but simple) Dante creates a 12 1/2" circle within any BA unit has Preferred Enemy, Dante included. I know some very good , long time BA tourney players and that is how it has been played in 4th and 5th. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/168239-question-regarding-dante-and-preferred-enemy/#findComment-1986017 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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