Landspeeders And you!

[Joshta]

Not much tactica is talked about land speeders, in fact i rarely see my fellow space marines using them in my local shops. I use LOTS of armor in full mounted list, and I typically average 2-5 speeders.

 

Personal General Opinions on Land Speeders (IMO)

Honestly this unit will be the most fragile unit space marines are able to field. I fill up my heavy choices very fast, and I am always looking for more anti infantry. My big thing is Assault cannons they are great BUT THEIR 40pts! An Assault cannon almost doubles the price of the speeder, I don't find that the utility that an assault cannon gives is worth the dbl'ing of the point value. I have loved assualt cannons before, but the new skimmer rules really ate away the speeders defensive capabilities. Hvy bolters vrs assualt cannons the difference is marginal on anti infantry. And if your going anti tank, get the anti tank weapon and then buy another land speeder for anti infantry instead of trying to do both with an assault cannon. I don't really hate assault cannons that much on speeders i just see the point cost as way to much for a very weak unit. I'll argue to death the assault cannons place on a regular dreadnought.

 

I mainly run two types of speeders, a long range anti infantry or the overly aggressive suicide killer.

 

The AP4 Blaster

(1) landspeeder w/ 2hvy bolters each = 60

its a great way to have a highly mobile gun platform ready to dish out 6 heavy bolter shots a turn. These guys are also virtually immune to melee, and can kite them around. If left untouched this guy is a small point worthy beast, that can easily dish out its point cost with handing out leadership checks or even just emptying squads.

 

The Close combat Speeder and you!

(2) Landspeeder w/ Hvy Flamer and Melta=70pts

This guy either deep strikes in or rushes as fast as he can to start using his short range armaments. My favorite place for this guy is behind the enemy lines nice place to use the multi-melta. I love the hvy flamer OR multi-melta option. DO NOT EXPECT THIS GUY TO LIVE, your basically taking away its ability to hide when your positioning for its firing. To really get your points back on the return u need to be hitting high armor targets. Also try to position them in a way so that if they receive a charge the enemy will run away from your main line to charge this POS AV10 vehicle.

 

The thing with speeders is keep them cheap, Consider them a filler unit rather then the end all anti tank or anti infantry. ALMOST EVERY WEAPON CAN KILL A Speeder, so a bad string of events from even light infantry could end up in, you loosing a TON of points.

[Vaaish]

With lots of other armor, a typhoon is a good route too. Somewhat more expensive but able to out range everything that will want to target it without dedicating heavy weapons and using frags can pop around 12" while still unloading everything.

[Warp Angel]

I've recently added the combo of Heavy Bolter Typhoon to my army to compliment the Thunderfire.

 

The Typhoon has the benefit of being able to stand off at 36" and fire all of its weaponry, or 48" and fire just it's missiles.

 

It does admirable anti-horde work with two S4 blasts and 3 s5 shots, and is a threat to light vehicles and elite infantry (MEQ) with S8 insta kill AP3 firepower. By placing it well away from my thunderfire cannon, I effectively split my opponent's long range anti-vehicle firepower, making both more survivable. And that's if they even get fired on with the Land Raider and Vindicator running up the middle and a Rhino and Razorback also causing havoc.

 

Essentially, it's one more anti-armor issue in a list that has too many armored threats already.

[greatcrusade08]

you should also mention the land speeder storm, they can be armed like any other speeder for about the same cost, albeit they can only have one weapon.

And you can puit a scoring unit inside too, if you wanted you could take aheavy weapon on the scouts and fire it as staionary, so 2 heavy bolters or a HB and ML combo..

But then i like using them to pull drive bys with 10 shotgun blasts and a heavy flamer or heavy bolter on the LSS

Its all good.

 

GC08

[Gornall]

Yeah... I <3 my HB Typhoon. It's ability to move and shoot makes it great at taking on fast enemies while staying outside their effective range. That and most opponents put it VERY low on the threat list, allowing it to remain relatively unmolested most of the game. I love it for sniping Tau Suits/Commanders or popping transports, but it does quite well at getting side/rear armor shots at heavier tanks too. It's a very flexible unit that has a lot of upside if used correctly.

[Brother Icipher]

My gripe with speeders is that all it takes is a bit of harsh language for them to fall over. I prefer to use Attack Bikes to achieve the same result (Fast Anti-Tank or Fire Support), as I believe they are more resilient for a similar points investment.

 

With regard to speeders, I agree that the key to using them is to keep them cheap and to expect them to die a lot. Personally, I wouldn't necessarily even give them an additional weapon, as they will tend to be either moving too fast to fire both, or be dead. You're better off spending the points on more speeders. The only speeder I would seriously consider using ATM is the Storm, and that would be just to transport Scouts around to sit on objectives.

[Thantoes]

I used to slag off the speeders but now I never leave home without one. My MM/HF combo speeder has always been amazingly successful and never fails to win back its points.

 

That being said, my MM attack bike just recently assassinated 2 ork battlewagons in 1 game so I am quite impressed with that as well.

[ShinyRhino]

My gripe with speeders is that all it takes is a bit of harsh language for them to fall over. I prefer to use Attack Bikes to achieve the same result (Fast Anti-Tank or Fire Support), as I believe they are more resilient for a similar points investment.

 

With regard to speeders, I agree that the key to using them is to keep them cheap and to expect them to die a lot. Personally, I wouldn't necessarily even give them an additional weapon, as they will tend to be either moving too fast to fire both, or be dead. You're better off spending the points on more speeders. The only speeder I would seriously consider using ATM is the Storm, and that would be just to transport Scouts around to sit on objectives.

 

I think the one thing that Landspeeders have over Attack Bikes is the Skimmer rules. The Landspeeder can ignore all that area terrain, and just fly over it, whereas the bikes have to take a terrain test and risk being killed by a bad roll, or go around it, losing movement distance.

 

This is especially useful when you're attempting to hide either unit behind a wall or some heavy cover. The bikes typically can't strike at anything in the turn they move around the cover, while the Landspeeder can.

[Joshta]

Attack Bikes to achieve the same result (Fast Anti-Tank or Fire Support), as I believe they are more resilient for a similar points investment.

 

Attack bikes lack a few things that i prefer in the land speeder. Almost any infantry can kill a land speeder but the real chance of this happening is slim to none, not having an AV means that attack bikes could get rocked by a few bolters. Since i use a full mech list, the opposing infantry really is slim picking for targets.

 

DEEPSTIRKE, an anti tank or hvy flamer speeder can drop in and attack first turn, where as a bike needs to bolt around the field to get into position first.

 

The two weapons almost doubles the usefulness or doubles their options. I love nothing more then laying a bit out of range then moving them up to 6"s and shooting 6-18 hvy bolter shots, it decimates entire squads of armor save 4 or more.

 

Speeders look way cooler then attack bikes.

 

You're better off spending the points on more speeders. The only speeder I would seriously consider using ATM is the Storm, and that would be just to transport Scouts around to sit on objectives.

 

I like storms but i don't have any converted. I use my speeders as heavy weapons support platforms, I want to play with a STORM but i like to proxy and i dont know when i'll have the time to convert one.

[ShinyRhino]

DEEPSTIRKE, an anti tank or hvy flamer speeder can drop in and attack first turn, where as a bike needs to bolt around the field to get into position first.

 

Not actually true. Nothing arrives via deepstrike on your first turn (except the mandatory drop pods, if any). Turn Two at best. It arrives at cruising speed, and must abide by the firing limits for that movement distance. Off the top of my head, I'm not sure what that allows the speeder to fire (S4 or less?).

[Kephri]

DEEPSTIRKE, an anti tank or hvy flamer speeder can drop in and attack first turn, where as a bike needs to bolt around the field to get into position first.

 

The two weapons almost doubles the usefulness or doubles their options. I love nothing more then laying a bit out of range then moving them up to 6"s and shooting 6-18 hvy bolter shots, it decimates entire squads of armor save 4 or more.

 

Landspeeders cannot do either of these.

Unless I am mistaken, they are considered moving too fast to fire on the turn they deep strike.

 

You also cannot fire 2 heavy bolters after moving. (I cannot tell if your 18 HB shots are from 6 Landspeeders).

 

If I am not following something correctly, I apologize.

[Ming]

My current tournament list includes 2 speeders with the MM/HF combo. I hide them at deployment, and move them to act as hunters or cleaners mid game, and objective contesters at end game. The more I use them, the better I get. If I keep them safe, they recover their point costs, but more importantly, give me another venue for more meltas! I use the original lead ones, who look like they should be armor 10, unlike the big bulky plastics they sell now that SHOULD be armor 11 or 12...I never squadron them now, due to the squadron "unbenefits". If I purchase new speeders, I wanna magnetize them for AC/HB/HF/MM builds, depending on the list I'm using. Too bad we don't have a 2xPC armored 13 variant!

[Thantoes]

Deep striking vehicles count as having moved at crusing speed. A fast vehicle (which a speeder is) can fire 1 main weapon at cruising speed.

[Gornall]

What makes the Typhoon variant so cool is the fact that it has the only defensive weapon available to our Landspeeders... two frag missile blast templates. It can move at cruising speed (or deepstrike) and dish out a lot of hurt on hordes. That or it can simply just settle for 2 krak missile shots. Good stuff either way.

[yergerjo]

I usually run 2 MM speeders separately for my Tourney list. It seems a waste of points to kick on an HF even though I use Vulkan. They are dedicated tank hunters and I have frequently had games where they have 3x + their points back and survived the game.

[Brother Icipher]

I never squadron them now, due to the squadron "unbenefits".

 

I know what you mean about the 'unbenfits' of squadrons, you have to balance that against the risk of running them solo and giving away extra Kill Points. In missions without KP, its fine, but in KP missions, I'd take the risk of running them in pairs. That way, if one cacks it, you haven't lost all that much by leaving it behind.

[Ethrion]

I've started to avoid using land speeders, I find other units can do their job much better. For tank hunting I either go with multi-melta attack bikes, a first turn drop pod assault with combi-melta sternguard, (using Khan) outflanking sternguard in a razorback with 2x melta guns and 3x combi-meltas or similarly outflanking bike squadrons with melta guns and maybe an attack bike as well with multi-melta.

 

The attack bikes are T5 and have 2 wounds, they are lower to the ground so can take advantage of cover better and they are still just as expendable as a land speeder with a multi-melta and cheaper. They can quite easily zip forwards on turn 1, get within range of some form of armour and damage it. Equally if this isn't possible they can stay hidden and lurking until something does come within range.

 

The sternguard combi-melta drop pod attack is arguably better. They come down pretty much bang on where you want them and with 5 or more melta shots they will destroy something. While it does mean they are now right inside the enemy deployment zone it forces the enemy to start turning things around and deal with the new threat right in their midst.

 

Both outflanking strategies, while being forced to rely on the reserve roll arrival is still a dangerous threat. No fear of deepstrike mishaps unlike the land speeder, an instant 12" move then with a fair few melta shots followed by a charge (give the sgt a powefist) into any disembarked units or the rest of the tank squadron.

 

A land speeder can deep strike with the melta yes, but the shortfalls of this is that their arrival isn't guaranteed, they could quite easily deep strike mishap or come down somewhere entirely ineffective and out in the open, unable to move. They are expendable yes, but unless you pack on a second multi-melta they still only have 1 shot and that's a big egg in one basket and arguable a wasteful loss. While it is true that land speeders can move over terrain features and are not forced to move around them like bikes, it's not a big enough reason IMO to take them over an attack bike. They only get a 4+ cover save for moving flat out unlike the bikes that get 3+ invulnerable and one can't forget their armour value of 10. For me anyway, all these reasons stack up and dissuade me from taking land speeders as tank hunters. And the same can be said for their anti-infantry capabilities; again attack bikes have the edge for carrying a heavy bolter, the assault cannon on a landspeeder is too expensive and can be equipped on better things.

 

The only real use for them is to equip them with the Typhoon rocket pods, have them sitting back in a support role, firing at either tanks or infantry from range and then have them jump to contest objectives late in the game. If you have land speeder storms then you can keep them in reserve and have them jump to cap an objective late game as well.

[ShinyRhino]

[Landspeeders] only get a 4+ cover save for moving flat out unlike the bikes that get 3+ invulnerable and one can't forget their armour value of 10.

 

Incorrect. Turbo boosting bikes get a COVER save, not an invulnerable save.

 

Anyhow, I think the choice between landspeeders and attack bikes comes down to playstyle. I really like my bike squads for their speed, but will be building two fully-magnetized Landspeeders to try out for some fun and variation. The two units are similar, yet wildly different at the same time, which makes them tough to choose from.

[Vaaish]

The attack bikes are T5 and have 2 wounds, they are lower to the ground so can take advantage of cover better and they are still just as expendable as a land speeder with a multi-melta and cheaper.

 

Given that the bonus +1T the attack bikes have doesn't help against instakills, I think there is little difference in durability between the two. Although with the new vehicle rules, the speeder might have a slight edge. It really comes down to what you like better.

 

And the same can be said for their anti-infantry capabilities; again attack bikes have the edge for carrying a heavy bolter, the assault cannon on a landspeeder is too expensive and can be equipped on better things.

 

Speeders come standard with a HB and don't replace it when adding the assault cannon so neither has the edge in terms of default arms.

[Blood Scorpion]

I really love my two MM/HF Speeders, they are just so flexible. Only last night they took out a Lemon Russ on the turn they Deepstriked, and then cooked a whole unit of Vets with the HF's the next turn. If however, they don't have such juicy targets (or a bit of luck on their side) their ability to move 24" over the terrain and other units is what makes them a better choice than the Attack Bikes IMO.

 

I've played games in the past where one Speeder survives (albeit with both weapons blown off) right til the end of the game and then swoops in to contest an Objective! I've used them to block off routes for enemy vehicles, giving my defenders that extra turn to shoot (2 Speeders c.3" apart make quite a wide road block for most vehicles)! In another game where a Deamon Prince (without wings) was charging towards me I deployed a Tactical Squad in Rapid Fire range and then jumped my Skimmers from the other side of the board over the Marines and in front of the Deamon Prince, allowing the Bolters to shoot under the Speeders and take off a few wounds, but blocking his charge to my Marines in the subsequent turn, allowing me a second turn of shooting to bring him down.

 

My point is that Landspeeders don't have to kill things to be effective, they can support/protect your other units and assist your overall battle plan due to their freedom and length of movement, something Attack Bikes just can't do as well!

[Ryjak]

So the general consensus is to run MM/HF speeders, or HB/ML speeders. I think I see why, too. Both are multi-roll, but with an emphasis on anti-tank or anti-horde... one is way more flexible, I think, simply because of the range of its weapons.

 

I keep thinking of running two Landspeeder Tempests, which are Assault Cannon & Twin-linked ML speeders with AV11 on the front... all for 120 points. While it's only throwing out one STR 4 blast instead of two, it should always hit something, plus 4 Str 6 shots. I don't know if it's worth the points, though.

 

I guess I could always run them as HB/ML speeders if I find the Tempests to be ineffective, right?

[Joshta]

First, I am sorry I miss spoke.

SPEEDERS can not deepstrike first turn and use their weapons, but they can deep strike second turn and use a single wepaon.

 

On a MMHF speeder the use of both weps in a single turn is not a big deal, a speeder moving at cruising speed(or deep striking)fires all defensive and 1 offensive weapon. Most of the time ur using the MMHF speeder for one roll or another, either tank hunting or flaming infantry. I don't see the big downside to deepstriking and only being able to shoot one wepon.

 

On a 2xHvyBolter Speeder or a Typhoon w/hvybolter doesn't move more then 6" a turn that way it can unload and use other vehicles as cover.

 

Personal preference is a biggy on the speeders VRS bikes, I love speeders and i think attack bikes look weird.... The way the army looks is a big thing for me.

 

But they do have slightly different roles, bikes and speeders are different units that could do the same job. I have everything in my army mounted, with 2 drop pods for dreads. The way my armor is set up is that there are a lot of low AV things, and my opponent will be picking and choosing which one he wants to kill.

[Vaaish]

a Typhoon w/hvybolter doesn't move more then 6" a turn that way it can unload

 

It was mentioned earlier, but to clarify, the typhoon can move 12" and fire 2 frag templates AND the HB. It only has to choose one or the other if it decides to fire kraks after it moves over 6".

[Prodigy]

As a side note, I have created a Lanspeeder with 2 Heavy Flamers, Its perfect for killing guardsmen, most eldar, firewarriors and small nids. Basicly anything with T3 and a 4+ or worse save!

[Terminus]

As a side note, I have created a Lanspeeder with 2 Heavy Flamers, Its perfect for killing guardsmen, most eldar, firewarriors and small nids. Basicly anything with T3 and a 4+ or worse save!

Eh, I tried this configuration, and I didn't like it. If you're burning infantry, then you're close, and if you're not cruising along, you're easier to kill. My favorite thing about speeders is their speed (and I too, use the old metal ones, because they look cool, rather than the current shoe model), which you don't have if you're firing both weapons.

 

MMHF FTW!